Tru Scale Marines

[J!MM!L!C!OUS]

Now, call me a mean old git who lacks the warmth of his mothers attentions if you will - but I really don't like Tru Scale marines. Tru Scale (TS) anything for that matter.

 

Now I do appreciate people converting and striving to make their models look unique but my problem with TS threefold:

 

1. If you only do it to a few models in your army it makes the rest look weird.

2. When compared to your opponents army it looks weird.

3. It alters the game in terms of Line of Sight and Cover away from how it's supposed to be.

 

So, I ask you, why waste your time *Edit altering the physiology of* your models to intentionally make them look out of place?

 

*Edit To clarify - lots of things in the game have been designed around the size of the standard infantry - the heavy infantry, the tanks, the terrain, line of sight and cover rules etc, changing the scale of your model from 28mm to something different is akin to me bring bringing 15mm models to the table - which would not be acceptable!*

[muzzer radarus]

I completely agree with you why change a few of your model's and leave the rest looking weird.

[Grotsmasha]

I don't game, not since 2nd. I get my hobby enjoyment primarily from it's modelling aspect, followed by painting, then fluff. I'm sure I'm not the only one. True/Art scaling is about that modelling aspect. From a gaming perspective, TS is great for the old 'Movie' Marine Rules.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Darklighter]

I don't game, not since 2nd. I get my hobby enjoyment primarily from it's modelling aspect, followed by painting, then fluff. I'm sure I'm not the only one. True/Art scaling is about that modelling aspect. From a gaming perspective, TS is great for the old 'Movie' Marine Rules.

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me at all! If your not fielding the marines does it matter what scale they are? I understand the want or preference to model over gaming, but if your models don't see battle then why "true scale" them at all. I guess my main problem is if your not doing it to make a more realistic perception (in your eyes) of your marines on the battlefield then why call it "true scale" at all. Maybe Heroic modeling would be a better term for this sort of thing?

 

In general I'm not a fan of "true scaling" as from what I've seen it's just the guardsman that are a little to big and the tanks that are a bit small. I would still play a game against an army like this, but only if it was done well and not just as an excuse to one, field cheaper models that look like trash or two, modeled to take advantage of the rules (line of sight, base sizes..ect...ect..).

[Yodhrin]

Now, call me a mean old git who lacks the warmth of his mothers attentions if you will - but I really don't like Tru Scale marines. Tru Scale (TS) anything for that matter.

 

Now I do appreciate people converting and striving to make their models look unique but my problem with TS threefold:

 

1. If you only do it to a few models in your army it makes the rest look weird.

2. When compared to your opponents army it looks weird.

3. It alters the game in terms of Line of Sight and Cover away from how it's supposed to be.

 

So, I ask you, why waste your time butchering your models to intentionally make them look out of place?

 

Why do anything? Why not play with bare plastic models, or just cardboard counters?

 

A1. So does putting one model in your army on a massively complex scenic base, plenty of people do that without getting shouted down on the internet; regardless of which, most truescale(Tru Scale is a brand of conversion components by a third party company) modellers construct whole squads or armies.

 

A2. To my eyes, titchy Marines the same size as Guardsmen looks weird, evidently this bothers me more than having to play against an opposing Marine army that's smaller - indeed, to my mind, it's far better, as I can more easily pretend I'm playing against a lost strain of humanity with access to STC tech who are just coincidentally wearing colours almost exactly like a Space Marine chapter, or some unknown new Xenos group, rather than coming up with yet another excuse for why my completely loyal Marines are fighting my opponent's completely loyal Marines. Again regardless though, I'm doing it for me, so that my armies make sense to me, so that my own Guardsmen don't look daft when I put them next to my own Marines, and why is my personal choice in this regard any different to your personal choice in what colour you paint your plastic men?

 

A3. So do many conversions, so does reposing, so does moving the turret from one end of a Chimera to another. If you're going to adopt this attitude, you might as well follow it to its logical conclusion and make using anything other than the standard GW model on a standard plastic base illegal, because anything else is going to alter the game from what it "should" be. I put "should" in quotes because A - using the word implies you are proceeding from a position of authority, which you're not, you're stating an opinion, and B - TLoS automatically balances variations in height or bulk for models to a certain degree, because a taller model doesn't just get better views of the enemy, they become an easier target themselves.

 

So, setting aside the fact that casting the substantial hard work of other hobbyists as "butchering" their models is pretty sodding offensive, I ask you; who made you King of 40K, and when did people making conversions just because they think they're cool turn into a bad thing?

[J!MM!L!C!OUS]

Now, call me a mean old git who lacks the warmth of his mothers attentions if you will - but I really don't like Tru Scale marines. Tru Scale (TS) anything for that matter.

 

Now I do appreciate people converting and striving to make their models look unique but my problem with TS threefold:

 

1. If you only do it to a few models in your army it makes the rest look weird.

2. When compared to your opponents army it looks weird.

3. It alters the game in terms of Line of Sight and Cover away from how it's supposed to be.

 

So, I ask you, why waste your time butchering your models to intentionally make them look out of place?

 

Why do anything? Why not play with bare plastic models, or just cardboard counters?

 

A1. So does putting one model in your army on a massively complex scenic base, plenty of people do that without getting shouted down on the internet; regardless of which, most truescale(Tru Scale is a brand of conversion components by a third party company) modellers construct whole squads or armies.

 

A2. To my eyes, titchy Marines the same size as Guardsmen looks weird, evidently this bothers me more than having to play against an opposing Marine army that's smaller - indeed, to my mind, it's far better, as I can more easily pretend I'm playing against a lost strain of humanity with access to STC tech who are just coincidentally wearing colours almost exactly like a Space Marine chapter, or some unknown new Xenos group, rather than coming up with yet another excuse for why my completely loyal Marines are fighting my opponent's completely loyal Marines. Again regardless though, I'm doing it for me, so that my armies make sense to me, so that my own Guardsmen don't look daft when I put them next to my own Marines, and why is my personal choice in this regard any different to your personal choice in what colour you paint your plastic men?

 

A3. So do many conversions, so does reposing, so does moving the turret from one end of a Chimera to another. If you're going to adopt this attitude, you might as well follow it to its logical conclusion and make using anything other than the standard GW model on a standard plastic base illegal , because anything else is going to alter the game from what it "should" be. I put "should" in quotes because A - using the word implies you are proceeding from a position of authority, which you're not, you're stating an opinion, and B - TLoS automatically balances variations in height or bulk for models to a certain degree, because a taller model doesn't just get better views of the enemy, they become an easier target themselves.

 

So, setting aside the fact that casting the substantial hard work of other hobbyists as "butchering" their models is pretty sodding offensive, I ask you; who made you King of 40K, and when did people making conversions just because they think they're cool turn into a bad thing?

 

Whoa, Angry man!

 

First of all, you nailed something important on the head about half way through your third paragraph - "You're stating an opinion". That's wite wabbit! I didn't do it in an offensive way, I did it to prompt discussion, so chill out.

 

A1 - Making a pretty base doesn't change the fact that the little man standing on it doesn't match the rest of your army - Which like I said, looks out of place in a way that is more significant than 'it has a prettier base'.

 

A2 - Fair enough, you're saying you like it and in instances of going mairne versus marine, you tell yourself that you're fighting hobbit marines. Fair enough. Your opinion is perfectly valid here.

 

A3 - All ok until you try and put words in my mouth with this - "If you're going to adopt this attitude, you might as well follow it to its logical conclusion and make using anything other than the standard GW model on a standard plastic base illegal". You're wrong. I get what you're saying about how conversions might change the position of a mans head or how even a scenic base might lift him up a bit, but the playing field is still level there, converting your models is acceptable and "officially" encouraged. Making your models taller is not "officially" encouraged however, and changes aspects of the game as per above. It's the difference between repositioning a GW space marine, and substituting him for 15mm scale model - I'm sure most folk would be unimpressed with that, but then with TS that's essentially what you are doing - changing the scales.

 

So, setting aside the fact that casting the substantial hard work of other hobbyists as "butchering" their models is pretty sodding offensive, I ask you; who made you King of 40K, and when did people making conversions just because they think they're cool turn into a bad thing?

 

Over reaction of the century!!! (I can just see the geek T-Shirts now - "Who made you king of 40K" complete with a picture of a tantruming child.... Back to the chill out thing again - I never claimed to hold authority, I mearly expressed an opinion. If you chose to take offense to that then it says more about you than me. If you want to contribute sensibly to the discussion, I'd like that.

 

Or you could just accuse me of having bad parental relations...

[Yodhrin]

Righto, this is a troll then, nothing to see here chaps.

[Rider-75]

I've done it cause it looks cool.

 

End of.

 

I don't care if there is ever enough to actually play with - I have other armies for that.

 

I'm doing it for purely aesthetic and challenge reasons. I want to challenge my modelling and sculpting skill and improve my painting on a model i can cram more detail and individuality on.

 

I don't need any other justification than "because I want to" - no one else can tell me (or any other truescaler out there) otherwise.

 

Personally I'd hope that others would view these truescale model projects for what they are - hard work - and in my case blood, sweat and tears - and be kind enough to be appreciative of that work, not come down as totally condescending.

[J!MM!L!C!OUS]

Don't get me wrong, I totally appreciate the effort that's put in - some of the conversion work is simply awesome, and if I've come across otherwise then that was not my intention.

Despite the talents of the people who do it well, I still don't get it. It's altering the mini's scale so that it no longer sits well with other miniatures from the same range.

I'm not trolling Yodhrin, I'm expressing an opinion. This is afterall a discussion forum.

I love converting my mini's, even to the point of scratch building and using third party bitz, but by the looks of the replies on the board, the folks that do TSing seem to view the game from a perspective I find impossible. There we go, we learned something, no need to call anyone names.

This image from our forum shows my point exactely - the TS marine looks gorgeous from both a modeling and painting point of view. But compared to the stock marine, it just doesn't fit.

[Danny Cyanide]

the TS marine looks gorgeous from both a modeling and painting point of view. But compared to the stock marine, it just doesn't fit.

I think that's supposed to be the point! They no longer fit with the "out of scale" range of miniatures. As far as I see it, most true scalers tend to do their marines as either art projects, where they will convert a limited number of models as a showpiece, or the really hardcore ones will true scale an entire army, so within their army, their models don't look out of place, they just look bigger than other races, which fluffwise, they are supposed to be.

[Rider-75]

What you need to do is get a pic of regular (8ft) marine mini and stand him next to your regular (5'10") cadian guardsmen. Then tell me again that there's nothing wrong with the scale of the marines....

[jokaero weaponsmith]

I think to be fair I think that is your use of the word butchering J!MM!L!C!OUS while maybe not intentional does come across condescending . The image above shows that true scaling is far from butchering as you have pointed out.

As from a gaming point of view the models are getting bigger there fore providing a bigger target, they are not altering size during a game so it remains fair for the duration of the game.

As for looking weird compared to other marines ,no more so that a half painted army.

I think that people who true scale show considerable dedication to they hobby in the time and effort they put into "their" army.

And as both J!MM!L!C!OUS and muzzer radarus point out once you true scale a marine it's the "rest"of the marines that look weird , showing its a problem with scaling of the GW marines not the true scale marines.

 

Any ways me off to wip to be inspired by brilliant and inspiring work of true scalers and non true scalers a like .

Let the haters, hate. But it's not what makes this hobby great!

[Grotsmasha]

I don't game, not since 2nd. I get my hobby enjoyment primarily from it's modelling aspect, followed by painting, then fluff. I'm sure I'm not the only one. True/Art scaling is about that modelling aspect. From a gaming perspective, TS is great for the old 'Movie' Marine Rules.

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me at all! If your not fielding the marines does it matter what scale they are? I understand the want or preference to model over gaming, but if your models don't see battle then why "true scale" them at all. I guess my main problem is if your not doing it to make a more realistic perception (in your eyes) of your marines on the battlefield then why call it "true scale" at all. Maybe Heroic modeling would be a better term for this sort of thing?

 

In general I'm not a fan of "true scaling" as from what I've seen it's just the guardsman that are a little to big and the tanks that are a bit small. I would still play a game against an army like this, but only if it was done well and not just as an excuse to one, field cheaper models that look like trash or two, modeled to take advantage of the rules (line of sight, base sizes..ect...ect..).

 

Because they still (imo) look better than a standard marine. I read just about every PA Black Library book that comes out (most of the non PA too, for that matter), and to see the standard SM standing beside my guardsmen, doesn't convey that sense of 'awesomness' that SM's have in the fluff. My fav example of this is from Gav Thorpes Last Chancers series, where the Inq and his guardsmen are in deep do-do, and are about to get railed by some tau battle suits. The Inq pops his homing beacon for a single deep-striking Death Watch marine, who preceeds to single handedly massacre 3 or more battlesuits. As I'm typing this I'm sitting here, grinning, just remembering it. True/Art/Heroic Scale SM's help continue that feeling, Space Marines are badass', and this is how I prefer to see them.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Dosjetka]

Righto, this is a troll then, nothing to see here chaps.

Yet another one *sigh* :P

 

Ludovic

[J!MM!L!C!OUS]

Righto, this is a troll then, nothing to see here chaps.

Yet another one *sigh* :P

 

Ludovic

 

We already established I wasn't trolling, seems you can't express a sensible if not controversial opinion around here without being accused of trying to start an argument.

 

For the record, I was trying to stimulate discussion, not anger.

 

(Edit) Ironically enough, the act of trolling also includes purposely taking a conversation off topic. Falsely accusing someone of trolling is trolling!

[J!MM!L!C!OUS]

And if I was so worried about line of sight and whatnot, I would use the old RTB-01 marines.

 

What's an old RTB-01 marine, and what's the significance of using one when trying to maintain standard line of sight and cover?

[Darklighter]

I don't game, not since 2nd. I get my hobby enjoyment primarily from it's modelling aspect, followed by painting, then fluff. I'm sure I'm not the only one. True/Art scaling is about that modelling aspect. From a gaming perspective, TS is great for the old 'Movie' Marine Rules.

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me at all! If your not fielding the marines does it matter what scale they are? I understand the want or preference to model over gaming, but if your models don't see battle then why "true scale" them at all. I guess my main problem is if your not doing it to make a more realistic perception (in your eyes) of your marines on the battlefield then why call it "true scale" at all. Maybe Heroic modeling would be a better term for this sort of thing?

 

In general I'm not a fan of "true scaling" as from what I've seen it's just the guardsman that are a little to big and the tanks that are a bit small. I would still play a game against an army like this, but only if it was done well and not just as an excuse to one, field cheaper models that look like trash or two, modeled to take advantage of the rules (line of sight, base sizes..ect...ect..).

 

Because they still (imo) look better than a standard marine. I read just about every PA Black Library book that comes out (most of the non PA too, for that matter), and to see the standard SM standing beside my guardsmen, doesn't convey that sense of 'awesomness' that SM's have in the fluff. My fav example of this is from Gav Thorpes Last Chancers series, where the Inq and his guardsmen are in deep do-do, and are about to get railed by some tau battle suits. The Inq pops his homing beacon for a single deep-striking Death Watch marine, who preceeds to single handedly massacre 3 or more battlesuits. As I'm typing this I'm sitting here, grinning, just remembering it. True/Art/Heroic Scale SM's help continue that feeling, Space Marines are badass', and this is how I prefer to see them.

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

I don't have a problem with someone modeling a marine for display that is slightly larger than the game scale. I'm not sure what your trying to justify? My gripe is if it's not for use on the table the scale makes no difference at all as the model is out of context to start with. Thats why I don't see the need for the term "true scale" in this type of modeling. Also you've proved my point about it not being Marines that are to small it's Guardsmen that are to big. This is the main reason why I don't like the words "true scale" as IMO (and confirmed by your post) it's the wrong models that are getting adjusted.

 

As for how larger/smaller models play out in a game that's a whole other story I don't really wasn't to get in to. Lets just say I'm much less a fan of hero rocks and larger bases than I am a Marine being a head taller. I've seen people use these things to break games far to often for my liking.

[J!MM!L!C!OUS]

As for how larger/smaller models play out in a game that's a whole other story I don't really wasn't to get in to. Lets just say I'm much less a fan of hero rocks and larger bases than I am a Marine being a head taller. I've seen people use these things to break games far to often for my liking.

 

My point exactely ^_^

[Grotsmasha]

I don't have a problem with someone modeling a marine for display that is slightly larger than the game scale. I'm not sure what your trying to justify? My gripe is if it's not for use on the table the scale makes no difference at all as the model is out of context to start with.

My marines share display space with my Tau, Sisters and Inq, the scale difference is apparent. When non-40k friends come over, they are drawn to my TS marines, why? Because they standout, head and shoulders over everything else, like a SM would.

 

Thats why I don't see the need for the term "true scale" in this type of modeling.

I agree, and you may have noticed I expanded from True Scale to True/Art/Heroic scale, as those terms are more appropriate. Whether or not True Scale is the correct term, it is what was chosen by the creators of the concept, and the term that is best known, appropriate or not.

 

Also you've proved my point about it not being Marines that are to small it's Guardsmen that are to big. This is the main reason why I don't like the words "true scale" as IMO (and confirmed by your post) it's the wrong models that are getting adjusted.

IMO, by the large, 40k is viewed from a, sometimes omnipresent, human perspective. That puts the humble Imperial Guardsman as 'the normal size'.

A question, if it's the humble Guardsman who is too big, should I be buying IG models to make smaller to put beside my SM so that the SMs stay at the 'correct' size? Or, I don't know, just continue to make my SMs bigger?

[Jacinda]

A question, if it's the humble Guardsman who is too big, should I be buying IG models to make smaller to put beside my SM so that the SMs stay at the 'correct' size? Or, I don't know, just continue to make my SMs bigger?

When it comes down to it, it's your time and money so do whatever you want. Use 54mm models or sculpt milliput armor for barbie dolls if it gives you the look you are after. What's the big deal? Nothing in this game fits any scale. It is all about cool looking models being posed on a tabletop. Do what you need to do to make your army look cool to you because no matter what you do, it will look silly to some and bold to someone else.

[J!MM!L!C!OUS]

For modeling purposes, and non game purposes TS is fine and dandy, it's in the context of a game I have a problem with it...

[Rider-75]

Seriously? The difference between a "truescale" marine (termy size equivalent) on a 30mm base is really not that much compared to a "normal" marine on a 25mm base that it will in any way "break" the game.

 

I can see an argument on "hero rock" type bases that make a standard marine size model tower over the battlefield. But that's not really the argument here...

[J!MM!L!C!OUS]

Indeed, the differences are mere milimeters.... I have lost count when my plans have either failed catastrophicaly or succeeded heroically over mere milimeters!!

 

Now I'm not saying it breaks the game, but it does introduce a new variable that only one side has the opportunity to familiarise themselves with. Furthermore big marines vs little marines looks wierd :devil:

[Darklighter]

I don't have a problem with someone modeling a marine for display that is slightly larger than the game scale. I'm not sure what your trying to justify? My gripe is if it's not for use on the table the scale makes no difference at all as the model is out of context to start with.

My marines share display space with my Tau, Sisters and Inq, the scale difference is apparent. When non-40k friends come over, they are drawn to my TS marines, why? Because they standout, head and shoulders over everything else, like a SM would.

 

Thats why I don't see the need for the term "true scale" in this type of modeling.

I agree, and you may have noticed I expanded from True Scale to True/Art/Heroic scale, as those terms are more appropriate. Whether or not True Scale is the correct term, it is what was chosen by the creators of the concept, and the term that is best known, appropriate or not.

 

Also you've proved my point about it not being Marines that are to small it's Guardsmen that are to big. This is the main reason why I don't like the words "true scale" as IMO (and confirmed by your post) it's the wrong models that are getting adjusted.

IMO, by the large, 40k is viewed from a, sometimes omnipresent, human perspective. That puts the humble Imperial Guardsman as 'the normal size'.

A question, if it's the humble Guardsman who is too big, should I be buying IG models to make smaller to put beside my SM so that the SMs stay at the 'correct' size? Or, I don't know, just continue to make my SMs bigger?

 

 

Ok I can live with the fact the terminology is off because of convention, I'll give you that. I do think you are wrong about Guardsman being the base line and not Marines for scaling models. I guess though for that we'd have to agree to disagree.

 

However for a true line of sight system a head hight taller can make a lot of difference. Even more so in this edition as you can't shoot or assault what you can't see and models only need 25% cover to gain the save.

 

Terrain could be modeled so that a normal marine can't see over it but the altered ones can, gaining them line of sight and a cover save. They can be placed a few steps further back on a palisade giving more room to put spods in front of special weapons to take advantage of wound allocation rules. That extra hight conferring cover to larger vehicles (unless adjusted to match marine scale) and skimmers.

 

If a models is put on a larger base to make the Marine fit better it changes the squad dynamics considerably making it harder for template weapons to make them selves effective and giving the squad a much bigger potential foot print. Then special character abilities like Seth's from the BA dex of Mr Wolfborn from SW's would hugely benefit from a larger base size Bigger base mean more base contact with enemy models.

 

In game terms they can make a big difference and these examples are just the tip of the iceberg. All of which can be meta gamed further with more thought and time. I'm by no means a WAAC player, but I like to keep my games fair and the best way for that is to stick to the rules as much as you can. That way no one walks away feeling cheated. I do play tournaments and I have done well. However it's in friendly game I find that people try to pull the dirties tricks. It's not even the power gaming WAAC players that do it it's the "fluff" lists with super conversions.... This maybe a local thing. But one thing I am sure of is never underestimate the motives of a gamer/modeler. As even the most artistic of models could be there just to gain that slight advantage on the table.

 

I've learned that the hard way! I know not everyone will be doing this and I'm not saying people here are. These are just my reasons for not liking these types of armies on the table top.

[Subtle Discord]

I can totally see both sides of this debate. On the one side, just look at the effort in my projects; I'm a "make the army my own" addict. I want my force to look unique and (hopefully) spectacular, weather that's on the table, just sitting on my desk, or in a display case. Even if you don't play much, or at all, there is something that drives people like me to create awesome for the sake of creating awesome. There's no 'fault' with this desire to create, no matter how it manifests.

 

As for the change in height, 1-2mm is not going to make-or-break 99.9% of line-of-sight mechanics of a game. Base size is the main determining factor of what space a model is occupying, more than height. Heck, if the model is posed in a crouching position, and hiding behind a 2cm rock (read: no line of sight) it still gets to shoot over that rock because it is understood that the model would stand to take their shot. While the 'snap shot' of the miniatures pose has less height, on the battle field they are not static, and will take whatever pose is needed for the situation. Including diving to the dirt.

 

Oh, and if someone tried to take an impossible shot by using a 'hero rock', I would completely call them on it, and debate that they should take the rocks extra height out of the LOS calculation. Just as we don't get to shoot at things like antenna, pointing fingers, or impressive banners, if that's all we can see of a model (clearly stated in the BRB), using basing or an over-the-top conversion to gain a significant height advantage, I feel, reverses this logic. Funny thing is, I bet the 'hero rock' user wouldn't like to give up their cover save due to the fact that they are towering over the cover they're trying to use. They don't want to give up the cover? Then they can't take an impossible shot over it either.

 

If I were to model my entire force in kneeling and prone positions, and then tried to start taking absurd cover saves since they were so low to the ground, how long do you think people would let that fly? Same logic.

 

Personally, I think most people who agonize over the scale of their Marines aren't looking hard enough at the pose of the models being compared. One thing that the vast majority of Space Marine miniatures share is a deep bent knee, and widely spaced feet, pose. It's meat to give the models a more dynamic feel, but it's exaggerated a bit too much for my liking. The RTB-01 miniature is an extreme example of this, with its almost constipated squat pose. Just look how far its feet are spaced, and how deep the knee bend is. If most of these Marine miniatures were to stop 'posing for the camera' and stand up straight, they would actually be much closer to the height that 'truescale' converters are going for. The height is there, it's just hard to see.

 

Compare the pose of a Space Marine to an Imperial Guard. While many Guard also have a wide leg stance, they generally don't bend at the knee nearly as much, making them seem taller. This is how I personally would try to change the height of a Marine miniature; fix the pose to stand up straighter. Being an artist who has a good eye for proportion and a basic understanding of anatomy I usually don't like how most people aim to 'truescale'. By adding a shim to the thighs/shins of a Marine and/or the waist, and not adding to the torso and arms, you've just made the proportions of the Marine even worse (in my opinion) than it would be if its scale is slightly off. I will concede that many people won't notice that, as I do.

 

I would also make a point that I think the height of an average Imperial Guard would be more than the average of a 'normal' human. They have admission standards, and I'm sure would try to conscript the biggest, toughest, strongest of the lot for front-line grunt fighting. For example, Catachan are expressly described as super tough, coming from a planet that would be a death-sentence to other 'normal' humans. Makes me think they might be taller than 5'9". Let those of lesser stature become pilots, support staff, and logistics, where they are much less likely to see actual combat.

 

Wow... I didn't know I had so much to say on the subject. Ok, I'll shut up now. :tu: