hobointherain Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 right so far ive got a small marine strike force based around 2 squads and their trusty razorbacks (and some devastators that loiter towards the rear trying not to blow up their plasma toys) Now I've always leaned towards fluffy goodness rather than math-hammer and cheesing my way to victory with 3 land raiders full of assault termies, but i'm at a point where I want to give my force some armoured back up and I'm a little stuck. Now as I say I'm a fluffy player, my chapters fluff revolving around a fast moving hit-and-run style of warfare, favouring razorback mounted combat squads. I reckon I've got 4 options to beef up my heavy support. 1] vindicator. Ive always had a bit of a soft spot for vindis mainly cos they look awesome and they kick ass. However they are vulnerable on their own and don't fit in with the hard and fast style of my chapter, they're not much for siege warfare. 2] Whirlwind. never dabbled with whirlwinds but understand theyve improved massively in the 6th Ed. also a fluff friendly choice sitting in the backfield softening up the enemy before the boyos rally up in their razorbacks 3] Predators: probably the best all-round choice, perhapse with las cannons and heavy bolters to add some heavy firepower that my army currently lacks 4] Baal predator: mainly because I'm itching to use some allies and a Baal would be something a bit different and fluffy So what Advice do y'all have for me? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I think the new rules has put Vindicators and perhaps Whirlwinds as well firmly on par with Preds. In this instance it'd be best to know the full loadouts and capabilities of the rest of your list before commenting further. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3174930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon999 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Agreed, if you can give us a full breakdown that will help. I have tried the vindicators in 6th now and they are more deadly, but just as flimsy. Without support or run alone they will not live to shoot let alone kill anything. I have heard of a lot of people putting them in reserve just so they dont get shot up too quickly out of the gate. Preds with HB sponsons are useful for AA, though the rifleman is still a little better in that respect for taking out flyers. The Whirlwind has always been a favourite of mine, although limited to anti infantry an subject to bad scatter when not firing direct it can be a bit of a wild card so people often take a dakka pred in its place for the same cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3176004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekLee688 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Hit and run? Whirlwind can fire from out of line of sight, so you can hit without having the need to run. Also, I've been seeing on the tactica threads that you can use the Barrage rules with the whirlwind's very large template and "snipe" models because #1 place the template on who you want to go away, and #2 deal wounds to who is closest to the center. Even if you miss, BS:4 + large template helps to still hit what you put your template on. They're not heavy or "armored" but land speeder Typhoons are have good firepower/range/speed and are the living embodiment of "hit and run". I tend to max out my Fast Attack slots first and then move on to elite/heavy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3176098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoteForPedro Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I run quite a shooty marine build (at 1500) and my current Heavy Support slot choices are: Slot 1: Predator - Autocannon/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons Slot 2: Predator - Autocannon/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons Slot 3: Whirlwind All three are cheap and effective ways of putting wounds on units. Put enough wounds on and sooner or later even marines will fail saves. The Whirlwind can, as others have mentioned above, 'snipe' important models. It's cheap, can hide at the back and it's usually quite low on people's target priority. It's considerably better against non marines but even against 3+ it can plug away with some kills throughout the game. Predators are (as I quite frequently seem to say!) just so very good for their points. AV13 is a pain to remove from range and they put but 8 medium/ high strength shots downrange without much fear of reprisal. I love the look of Vindis but they don't really fit my list style (too short range). I also rejected upgrading the Predators with Lascannons to save points. For my money the Heavy Support slots in C:SM give you your best anti infantry point for point, Elite and Fast Attack have considerably better anti tank/ anti flyer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3177872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Agreed, the Predator Destructor and Whirlwind are cheap and effective so you can normally fit more than one in to further increase their impact on the game. They're pretty much your only choice if you want to replicate mobile warfare as best you can. When it comes to vehicles unfortunately the rules don't quite give us the ability to play as we might feel we should (the Predator's speed and side armour...) which is one of the reasons I like them cheap but they can reliably trundle around shooting at range. Thanks to 6th you can fire on the move better but don't expect to be fast or particularly deadly :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3177960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobointherain Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 thanks for the input so far! I'm only aiming at between 750 - 1000 pts to start with cos my work schedule means that even putting a single marine together is an epic undertaking. So far I'm running a rather meagre HQ - either a Librarian or a captain with power sword troops - 2 basic combat squads 2 heavy bolter razorbacks Heavy - Devastators with 2 heavy bolters, missile launcher and plas cannon I was itching to get a baal pred but having thought about it I think I'd rather address the devs lack of mobility. An assault cannon or a las/plas razor back would add firepower and mobility to the squad. further than this I'm open to suggestions. Like I say ive always been more of a fluffy player and collector than a tactical gamer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3178038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon999 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Well I ran my whirlwind against orks for the 1st time in 6th last weekend. IT WAS AWESOME. Even with full scatter from indirect fire it killed about 20 orks of various types over the game, more than making its points back and giving my opponent an annoying thing to deal with. I will take it again and highly recommend it. Also - the comment above about Typhoons - I use them every game, and they always rock. Just keep them on the backfield away from anything that can hit them and prioritize units as targets that CAN kill you. Ran 1 stormtalon, 3 typhoons in a squadron and 2 single tornado's with dual multimeltas using allies and it was a great combo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3178226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 A combi-pred for anti-tank or a Vindicator for AP2 and anti-infantry would be a good choice in that list. Also, Devs should really not be running mixed weapons, it makes them points inefficient. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3179315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobointherain Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 yeh the devs are a bit of a scratch unit at the mo till i can get some more bits together and unify them. Would you advise taking a transport with the devs or just try and make the most from deployment? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3182435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I enjoy having two Predator Annihilators (las turret) with lascannon sponsons and a Whirlwind in my heavy support slots. Powerful anti-tank/infantry is great. Puts down anything that gives me the stink eye, lickidy-split. For your points starting, a Predator Destructor (autocannon turret) with lascannons might be a good start. The good thing about the predator kit is that you easily magnetize the turret so you can swap out the auto for las whenever you feel like it. If you're a Blood Angels player (which I gather by the option of taking a Baal) then you almost never want to take a Destructor for anti-infantry duties; the Baal will always outperform it. Your Vindicators are better, being fast, but I never liked them because they were too short ranged. I'm often engaging at 36+ inches, making the Predator the better buy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3182512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobointherain Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 nah I'm just a vanilla marine player but fancied the option of throwing in some blood angel allies to spice things up a wee bit! think I've settled on the auto-las pred for an all-round mix of shooty death I've got about 75 points left so its either a las-plas razorback for the devs or a techmarine with servo harness to put of anyone who fancies tackling the devs in close combat Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3184845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 The thing about taking a las-plas razorback for the Devastators is that they in no way have to get in it. It's a good way to get a heavily armed vehicle for a relatively low points cost. I always use my Immolators (knock-off Sisterhood razorbacks) as mobile fire support in small points game. Heck, most of the time I buy them for squads that can't even fit inside! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3187374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 The thing about taking a las-plas razorback for the Devastators is that they in no way have to get in it. It's a good way to get a heavily armed vehicle for a relatively low points cost. I always use my Immolators (knock-off Sisterhood razorbacks) as mobile fire support in small points game. Heck, most of the time I buy them for squads that can't even fit inside! Yeah, but if you're taking a 'back with Devs, then you're not doing it to act as a transport for the Devs -- you're taking it for the extra guns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260935-tanks-a-lot/#findComment-3187819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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