Hyaenidae Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed my command squad throughout 5th ed, but it's time for a change. Right now, I have a Captain and command squad for C:SM that look like this: Captain- SS, Relic Axe, Artificier Command- 3 with SS/PW (swords), 1 with SS/PF, 1 apothecary Razorback- stock Of course, the dilemma I'm faced with in 6th is not being able to assault after disembarking. It was a solid kick to the gentle parts when I realized this, and now I'm looking at ways to still kick faces in. I don't have the money (any time soon) for a LR, and this would also break the spirit of the fluff for my army (which is something I'd hate to do), so instead I'm thinking of using the pile of Terminator parts I have to good effect, focusing more on footslogging. Any thoughts on a decent build for a footslogging Termie group led by a Captain? Or perhaps I am looking at things wrong, and there's a way to redeem my current Command's tactics? Any and all input apprieciated! Thanks in advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Sup Heathens! First thing I'd ask is what models do you have available, that way we can just reorganize your army list rather than just list a bunch of stuff you need to buy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3174985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Alrighty, here's what I got- Captain - SS/Relic Axe/Artificer Command- 3 with SS/PW (swords), 1 with SS/PF, 1 apothecary Razorback - Stock CHaplain Cassius (counts as) leading... Sternguard (5 man)- 2 combi-melta's, Sgt with PF/Combi Plas, melta bombs Razorback - Twin AC's Ven Dread - Asslt Cannon / SB 2 X Tactical squads (10 Man)- both with Missle/Flamer, Sgt's with Chainswords Rhinos - Stock Scout Squad (5 man) - 2 Shotties, 2 BP/ccw, Sgt with PF, melta bombs (Best unit ever, btw) LS Storm - Multi-Melta 'Thudd'erfire cannon Predator - AC / Hvy Bltr Vindi - Stock I also have (as mentioned) unbuilt, a ton of Termie parts, enough for at least 15 of 'em, 2 Attack Bikes, 3 Standard Bikes, another Ven. Dread (with options), and enough parts to build at least 40 more Marines with as many options as you can imagine (jump pack, various weapons, etc). My bitz box is extensive. I like the idea of a Lysander counts as, leading a 10 man standard Termie squad; but I've never used nor faced that specific badass. Bolter drill seems pretty awesome, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Well quad plasma Command squads didn't get any worse, in fact they got better, so you could always use then. However, it may be best to go for the Terminator squad. Take the CML with them, and 1 or 2 chainfists for every 5 members. I'd also drop the Captain altogether, no need to replace, just so you can get more Terminators. You have Cassius so you don't need a HQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Well quad plasma Command squads didn't get any worse, in fact they got better, so you could always use then. It is a damn fine build (one I've suffered from in the past), but due to my fluff for my Marines Malevolent, Plasma is almost non-existant except my techmarine and my Stern Sgt's Combi-Plasma. I'd like to keep it that way, soooo.... However, it may be best to go for the Terminator squad. Take the CML with them, and 1 or 2 chainfists for every 5 members. Terminators it is then. Bummer I have no CML's though, but I have tons of AC's and HF's. Which would be the better choice? Also, should I only go for 5, or go overboard and make a full 10 man squad of em? I'd also drop the Captain altogether, no need to replace, just so you can get more Terminators. You have Cassius so you don't need a HQ. I'd ditch my Chappy before I ditch the Captain. I have a thing for Captain's, considering he's 'me' in power armour, lol. Plus, the Chaplain was only an afterthought, he's lucky he even gets to play. Which also raises the previous question...should I go for a termie captain, or a counts-as Lysander? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I'm planning a Lysander-lead (tactical) terminator squad myself. I'd suggest building ten if you have the parts: you can always choose to field less in smaller games, and the full squad when you really need the enemy soiling their breeches. When I posted my army list cyclones were recommended to me too, but I'd say assault cannons are a good second choice. With Lysander leading them they're going to be putting out a ton of lead every turn, why not add to that with an assault cannon or two? Gives the opportunity to rend too. Plus I'd love to see a big unit of terminators in your MM army! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Have you ever used Lysander before? How does Stubborn affect you during games (not ruleswise, I mean just experience)? Is Bolter Drill worth it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Have you ever used Lysander before? How does Stubborn affect you during games (not ruleswise, I mean just experience)? Is Bolter Drill worth it? Sorry, Heathens, I don't yet have the unit. It's planned, it's on the army roster...but the cash isn't in the wallet nor the models in the post. Yet. Like you, I'd be very interested to hear some tales of experience... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I'd recommend trying to grab some CMLs off of bitz sites or eBay then, they're really that worth it, and mesh well with Lysander's Bolter Drill as you keep the storm bolters there. If not though then take the assault cannon. They got better against tanks, there's more infantry about, and the range matched up perfectly with the storm bolters. As for Stubborn, I've never really suffered from it, but then my lists with Lysander have been Terminators and Scouts, and as the Scouts are rarely charged it's not been a problem for me, I don't mind my Terminators being in assault. But if going with Lysander go with 10. If not then 5 could work. If you do go 10 never Deep Strike them, if you go with 5 you've got more flexibility to Deep Strike them if you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingkaneda Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Have you ever used Lysander before? How does Stubborn affect you during games (not ruleswise, I mean just experience)? Is Bolter Drill worth it? Sorry, Heathens, I don't yet have the unit. It's planned, it's on the army roster...but the cash isn't in the wallet nor the models in the post. Yet. Like you, I'd be very interested to hear some tales of experience... And so you shall! I field Lysander with 10 tactical terminators and 2 cyclone missile launchers for about a year now. I field them each and every game I play. Stubborn: A lot of people seem to dislike stubborn, but I actually like it. It helps you to stay in combat when you lose combat, wich is always better than getting wiped out. Sure you cant choose to fail and try to run, but against opponents with equal or higher IN its a slim chance anyway. I also field scouts, and I love tying up much stronger squads with them in CC. Only 1 scout needs to survive to hold them for another turn. So great for speedbumping. Bolterdrill: When combined with 10 tactical terminators, this is quite good. In general it gets me 18-20 hits. Add in the cyclone missile launchers and you can hurt any kind of enemy. CC: This squad can take on just about everything in CC. But in some matchups(especially vs AP 2 high IN) they do pay a high price for winning or stalling. Pretty often I charge lysander out of the squad by himself. To charge thunderwolves and the like. With his 3++ 4W he is hard to kill. Having the extra sergeant gives you some nice challenge options. Targets: You can target anything with them and hurt it, it really depends on what the rest of your army can hurt. Warning: When your opponents get used to facing them, they might bring some nasty anti terminator weaponry with them. My unit has drastically changed my opponents lists. Watch out for vindicators, plasmacannons and any other kind of mass AP 1-2 shooting. Droppods with plasma guys are especially nasty, since they can drop from behind or the flank so that lysander cant protect his squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Kingkaneda, Marines don't get wiped out by sweeping advance. Instead they get treated as Fearless and there No Retr.. Oh hang on, that rule disappeared. ^_^ Basically, there is a downside to Stubborn. You can't choose to run. With Combat Tactics you can choose to run, and if you get caught you stay in combat and nothing happens, like with Stubborn. So it's better basically, especially as you can now regroup even when near an enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroknight Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I used to run a Pedro Kantor army, so I was used to stubborn in 5th. Back then, you could argue the advantages of stubborn since running away with combat tactics wasn't always a good choice. In 6th, due to the changes to ATSKNF and regrouping, combat tactics got much better. Now stubborn seems less valuable since falling back is usually better than staying locked in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingkaneda Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Ok combat tactics has improved a bit then. My opponents hate the fact that they are stuck fighting another round vs 1-2 scouts, while normally Id have a -4/5 leadership check. I can see combat tactics being slightly better in general, but stubborn isnt the curse some people make it out to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 It just depends on your tactics and unit loadouts. Pedro lists do all right with Stubborn thanks to his attack bubble. Lysander lists don't have this though, so Stubborn when using Lysander is arguably worse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3175999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Hmm, interesting points all. I'm definetley running with the Termies, probably make ten but ready to operate as five when neccessary; I have literally no disposable income right now, so no CML's for much longer than I'm willing to wait... Assault Cannons it is. I think I'm going to try making a Termie Captain that could be either a regular captain, or will work as a counts-as Lysander if I ever want to give him a try. Thanks, guys, I apprieciate all the help! Off to the painting table I go.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260940-modifications-to-my-army-due-to-6th-ed/#findComment-3176054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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