Change in shooting vs BAs

[BloodReavers]

Page 35 – Special Rules, Feel No Pain.

Add the following paragraph “If one or more models in a unit have the Feel No Pain special rule then the Mixed Saves method of Wound allocation should always be used for allocating Wounds and removing casualties from that unit; Feel No Pain rolls should be individually made after each failed save.”

 

Instead of having to put a character (with different armor) in front for mixed saves, we now have to do this by having feel no pain in the unit. I'm not sure how it benefits us, as I didn't do the math. But it seems that it doesn't do anything but slow shooting results down even more.

[Deschenus Maximus]

I'm not sure it changes anything beyond being incredibly more tedious.

 

Going on probabilities:

 

I take 9 wounds. I roll all 9 together and fail 3 armour saves. I roll for FnP and I save 1 guy. So 2 dead marines.

 

I take 9 wounds. I pass all 6 first armour, but fail the 7th. I pass my first roll for FnP. I roll for 8th wound, fail, and fail FnP, so 1 guy dead. I roll for 9th wound on second guy in line, fail armour, and fail FnP. So 2 guys dead.

 

Maybe my math is wrong.

[DominicJ]

I dont see the difference?

[CitadelArmyGuy]

It would slow things down ENORMOUSLY. Take 15 wounds, that's 15 single dice thrown one at a time. omg..... hate. I fail to see any mathematical difference either, from how it used to play.

 

Take 15 wounds, roll 15 dice, 5 fail. Roll 5 FnP, 4 fail. The 4 closest models die. There's no mathematical difference than rolling singles (when single-wound models are involved), it won't affect how many die. 4 Failed FnP is 4 Failed FnP, no matter how you cut it.

 

Look at it this way-- take 10 wounds. The first 3 saves fail, and the first 2 FnP fail.

Now take 10 wounds again. The last 3 saves fail, and the last 2 FnP fail.

Or mix them up in any failure order you want..... the amount of dead is the same.

 

It's called The Commutative Properties of Addition and Multiplication

a + b = b + a

a x b = b x a

 

 

Shooting at character-less units makes zero difference old way or new way. So IMO the reason it got FAQ to be this way is because now you must do all Look Out Sir! rolls before rolling any saves... much different than before.

[Remtek]

Couid this be to just clarify? Some people were using Corbulo wrong in accordance to look out sir. Dosnt really make sense, you just figure out how many unsaved wounds total and remove the closest model...

[Leksington]

Page 35 – Special Rules, Feel No Pain.

Add the following paragraph “If one or more models in a unit have the Feel No Pain special rule then the Mixed Saves method of Wound allocation should always be used for allocating Wounds and removing casualties from that unit; Feel No Pain rolls should be individually made after each failed save.”

The rule is primarily addressing the situation where only some of the unit has FnP. Since FnP isn't an armor save, it wasn't entirely clear that it was a mixed save. Now it is.

[WarpWhisper]

Maybe it also reflects situations where a Sang Priest is close to the front of the unit, and therefore if he dies then FNP would not apply to all subsequent required saves. So it stops players rolling all saves and applying FNP before possibly removing the priest as a casualty.

[Leksington]

Maybe it also reflects situations where a Sang Priest is close to the front of the unit, and therefore if he dies then FNP would not apply to all subsequent required saves. So it stops players rolling all saves and applying FNP before possibly removing the priest as a casualty.

I'm of the understanding that subsequent rolls would still get FnP (but I could be wrong). The idea is that all the shots are happening simultaneously, and it is simply a matter of whether they were in range of the priest when the shots were fired.

[Djulius]

I've got a feeling they meant to say "if one or more, BUT NOT ALL, models in a unit..." Don't see the point if say a DC unit with same stats take 5 wounds. Rolling save and then FnP one by one on the closest makes no difference.

 

Obviously if nearest model doesn't have FnP, keep rolling saves until he's gone. Let's say second closest has, then need to roll saves and FnP until he's gone (or wounds all used up). Would also need to do so if mixed FnP discount levels, such as 4+ for all except Corbulo's 2+ who may be second closest...

 

I agree with Leksington's last comment, i.e. at the time of taking the shots/wounds (i.e. simultaneously) then all models inheriting FnP (such as from Corbulo) have the rule that shooting phase. If Corbulo taken out in shooting phase then obviously no benefit in Assault phase.

[WarpWhisper]

Actually I see your point Leksington B)