Darkmagi Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I was musing over ideas for how to run my dread knight I realized the wording of the great sword doesn't say in close combat only... So is it possible that the Sword will allow re-rolls to hit on say the Gatling psylincer turning it into a passable weapon and turning the incinerator into a monster weapon. Now if I missed any wording please correct me. But I think the sword just became the most broken piece of equipment in the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I was musing over ideas for how to run my dread knight I realized the wording of the great sword doesn't say in close combat only... So is it possible that the Sword will allow re-rolls to hit on say the Gatling psylincer turning it into a passable weapon and turning the incinerator into a monster weapon. Now if I missed any wording please correct me. But I think the sword just became the most broken piece of equipment in the game. It actually does specifically say in close combat. Good thing too or it would be the most broken piece of wargear in the known universe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3175383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 OK cool didnt have my codex on hand while musing.... good to know! thanks for the quick reply Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3175384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I've been away from the game for most of 6e, so please excuse me for probably repeating a question that has already been answered. :tu: But here goes... So, with the wording of the Greatsword FAQ, does it mean that DKs are now S10 base (because Doomfists double the model's strength)? Also, does it mean that a DK with just bog standard Doomists have five attacks? If I'm reading either of these interpretations correctly, why did they make this change? In 5e GW emphatically beat down the (to me at the time) obvious reading that Doomfists would double a DKs strength. In 5e, DKs were S6 unless they took a hammer. But if DKs are essentially always S10 now, no matter what weapon loadout they have, what's the point of them having Hammerhand? Color me seriously confused about this. :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3175778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 As you say, the base strength is now 10, and he has 5 attacks on the charge. 4 as a base (3 according to his profile and +1 for additional close combat weapon). Greatsword confers the re-roll ability to all close combat weapons used. So you get 5 re-roll to hit, to wound with S10 Doomfists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3175813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Hammerhand is pointless. But every GK unit knows it... :/ I'd really like the option for all our units to trade in thier default powers for rolls on the BRB tables. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3175866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephane4985 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Sometimes at night, I can hear a trygon crying. Anyway, be sure to bring the faq with you because I can foresee some argumentation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3175905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOFADK Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 The Hammer are there to concuss those high Initiative MC and Greater Deamons. Initiativ 4 isn't that much and a DK dosn't survive two rounds off close combat against a CCMC if he striks last both rounds. Okay he has forcewespon and deamonbane, but both og those could fail. A thing I just don't undestand is why he have Hammerhand, know he always a S10 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3176394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 The Hammer are there to concuss those high Initiative MC and Greater Deamons. Initiativ 4 isn't that much and a DK dosn't survive two rounds off close combat against a CCMC if he striks last both rounds. Okay he has forcewespon and deamonbane, but both og those could fail. A thing I just don't undestand is why he have Hammerhand, know he always a S10 Its 2 out of 11 he will fail his force weapon ability... But true, they could fail. I for one have a hard time fitting the hammer in. I need those few points in other units that gives more boost than a concuss hit. Hammer isn't worthless, but not so interesting to buy as a standard imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3176400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Well, if GW clarify/allow this by FAQ, I can think of a single instance where Hammerhand could actually be used. Buffing the NDKs Strength for a Hammer of Wrath attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3176428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Hammer of Wrath always uses the unmodified Strength value, so no luck there either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3176967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Which is why it would need to be clarified by a FAQ. Like the Baron. Always uses unmodifed S, no Wargear. But the Baron's hoverboard effects his hammer... GG GW! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3177036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOFADK Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Which is why it would need to be clarified by a FAQ. Like the Baron. Always uses unmodifed S, no Wargear. But the Baron's hoverboard effects his hammer... GG GW! Hammerhand is actived after assault moves have bin made, so I will say that wouldn't work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3177356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Hammer is made at I10, after assault moves. On the first Iniative Step of the combat round. So that should be *after* the Hammerhand cast. But hey, I like useless abiities. It can sit joint pride of place with my Brotherhood Champions Digital Weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3177597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think the DK has 'Hammerhand' because Matt was lazy and just went 'copy-paste, 'Hammerhand' and second psy power'. Then he went through and gave them all a unique power. Probably forgot he gave the DK Doomfists to begin with (Matt was probably too busy laughing maniacally as he wrote the nemesis hammer and greatsword rules). I like how he gave the DK 'Dark Excommunication', when it doesn't work on Greater Daemons (which the DK is supposed to kill). But yeah, greatsword is now auto-include. Stun is meaningless; if its a vehicle, its dead (S10 with re-rolls to hit and damage). If its a monster, its dead (re-rolls to hit and wound, force weapon as well, Eternal Warriors will still take 2-3 wounds and be mostly dead). Hammer is strictly worse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3179625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corai Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I like how he gave the DK 'Dark Excommunication', when it doesn't work on Greater Daemons (which the DK is supposed to kill). I may be missing something here, but why wouldn't Dark Excommunication work on a greater daemon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3179944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheezeFezt Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 As you say, the base strength is now 10, and he has 5 attacks on the charge. 4 as a base (3 according to his profile and +1 for additional close combat weapon). Greatsword confers the re-roll ability to all close combat weapons used. So you get 5 re-roll to hit, to wound with S10 Doomfists. I'd been away a while and just re-started playing. Can you explain how the dreadknight base strength is 10? And that 10 str is good for hammer of wrath and vector strike? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3191062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 No, he attacks at S10 because the Nemesis Doomfist uses the Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon rules, which double the wielder's Strength. Hammer of Wrath is still done at S6. A Dreadknight can't Vector Strike, as it is not a Flying Monstrous Creature. Even with the Personal Teleporter upgrade, it is still only a Jump Monstrous Creature. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3191114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheezeFezt Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 No, he attacks at S10 because the Nemesis Doomfist uses the Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon rules, which double the wielder's Strength. Hammer of Wrath is still done at S6. A Dreadknight can't Vector Strike, as it is not a Flying Monstrous Creature. Even with the Personal Teleporter upgrade, it is still only a Jump Monstrous Creature. The 1.1 FAQ stated the Greatsword is Str 10. The Greatsword is now a DCCW? I don't understand how the Greatsword is at Str 10. I understand his other close combat weapon is a doomfist, but you must choose which one of the 2 to use and only that used weapon special apply. And neither of these are specialist weapon? So one get +1 attack for having 2 cc when using either? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3191123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 from the grey knight codex faq: Q: Does a Nemesis Dreadknight armed with a Nemesis greatsword have4 Attacks at Strength 10 that, because of the Nemesis greatsword, can re-roll To Hit, To Wound and Armour Penetration rolls?(p54) A: Yes. So I guess, you use the fist to get str x 2 up to 10, get the bonus attack for having 2 close combat weapons, and then use the special ability from the sword without actually attacking with it. Kinda weird that it works like that for the DK, but an inquisitor with daemon weapon has to use it to get the benefits, oh well... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3191179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 No, he attacks at S10 because the Nemesis Doomfist uses the Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon rules, which double the wielder's Strength. Hammer of Wrath is still done at S6. A Dreadknight can't Vector Strike, as it is not a Flying Monstrous Creature. Even with the Personal Teleporter upgrade, it is still only a Jump Monstrous Creature. The 1.1 FAQ stated the Greatsword is Str 10. The Greatsword is now a DCCW? I don't understand how the Greatsword is at Str 10. I understand his other close combat weapon is a doomfist, but you must choose which one of the 2 to use and only that used weapon special apply. And neither of these are specialist weapon? So one get +1 attack for having 2 cc when using either? Basically, the sword's special rule only requires you to be equipped with it, not use it, so you can use the remaining doomfist, but get the sword re-rolls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3191218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
drou feov Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 from the grey knight codex faq: Q: Does a Nemesis Dreadknight armed with a Nemesis greatsword have4 Attacks at Strength 10 that, because of the Nemesis greatsword, can re-roll To Hit, To Wound and Armour Penetration rolls?(p54) A: Yes. So I guess, you use the fist to get str x 2 up to 10, get the bonus attack for having 2 close combat weapons, and then use the special ability from the sword without actually attacking with it. Kinda weird that it works like that for the DK, but an inquisitor with daemon weapon has to use it to get the benefits, oh well... I always consider the greatsword to be an upgrade to a doomfist, rather than a replacement even if the codex uses the word "replace". In that case it would make sense that the strenght is 10, as the DK would be wielding the sword with a doomfist. That's one (albeit a bit shabby) way to make sense of this rule and it's FAQ entry... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3191536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 from the grey knight codex faq: Q: Does a Nemesis Dreadknight armed with a Nemesis greatsword have4 Attacks at Strength 10 that, because of the Nemesis greatsword, can re-roll To Hit, To Wound and Armour Penetration rolls?(p54) A: Yes. So I guess, you use the fist to get str x 2 up to 10, get the bonus attack for having 2 close combat weapons, and then use the special ability from the sword without actually attacking with it. Kinda weird that it works like that for the DK, but an inquisitor with daemon weapon has to use it to get the benefits, oh well... I always consider the greatsword to be an upgrade to a doomfist, rather than a replacement even if the codex uses the word "replace". In that case it would make sense that the strenght is 10, as the DK would be wielding the sword with a doomfist. That's one (albeit a bit shabby) way to make sense of this rule and it's FAQ entry... Another way would be to assume that the FAQ writer was an idiot. Seriously, there is a whole section in the rulebook about using two different weapons so why does this FAQ feel the need to completely ignore that and just say "Hey, you get to use both at the same time and have all the rules work together". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3192544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Probably due to the wording of the greatsword. A dk equipped with the greatsword blah blah, thus you can use it even if its not your "main hand weapon", where other weapons might be "when using this weapon". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3192605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I do think this FAQ ruling will go away in a future version of the FAQ. It seems terribly, terribly wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260982-dreadknight-and-his-sword/#findComment-3192681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.