Chosen in 6th

[Ifrit446]

Hello Brothers,

 

I was just wondering how you guys (especially my brothers from the XXth Legion) equip your Chosen Marines??

 

I've been knitpicking some of the Chosen equipment and coming up with ideas that could be a blast to use...Also know that I've got 2-3 Chosen Squads sneaking around in Rhinos :lol:

 

So what would you uys recommend?? Plasma gun spam, Power weapon combat squad, Or a balance between the two with half special weapon and half with close combat weapons?? Thanks for all of your help in advance.

 

Hydra Dominatus,

-Ifrit446

[greatcrusade08]

im sure they will change drastically in 6th ed codex, but for now i either equip them for special weapons or for close combat (the latter is easier with the new models)

 

they can have 5 plasmaguns or 5 meltaguns, even if they are only 5 man strong.. i once outflanked 5 with plasma and killed mephy in one round of shooting.

so plasma is always a solid fave.

 

with meltaguns, id give them a dedicated rhino, infiltrate it 18" from enemy.. turn one move 6" disembark 6" and fire 5 meltaguns into whatever nasty target you can reach.. paladins, termies whatever needs to die.. also works with plasma for twice the shots, good way to kill off the stormlord or mephy before the game even starts.

 

outflanking is always a solid way to run a shooty unit too

[Feste]

6th edition really seems to be liking plasma at the moment. You can't go wrong with it; Terminators? Plasma. Marines? Plasma. Venoms? Plasma. They've even got a shot at glancing Vindicators to death. There's nothing that it can't touch now.

 

It's worth mentioning that cause of the changes to rapid-fire, you don't need to be shooting them point-blank in someone's face now. It helps, sure, but they don't need to be a 1-shot suicide unit now. Which is nice.

[Ifrit446]

So you guys would say that a shooty unit is better faring than a Close Combat Chosen unit??

[Feste]

I don't necessarily agree with all this but general consensus is that assault in 6th edition has been weakened quite a bit, possibly to the point where only seriously dedicated assault unit should be attempting it. Chosen have one attack base and 'only' 5 power weapons in a squad, they should massacre a tactical squad but aren't going to stand up to assault terminator, Incubi etc.

 

However, BS4 with 5 plasma weapons or 5 multimeltas (I'd argue even 5 flamers aren't to be taken too lightly) is a pretty neat little unit. You could think of them as chaotic Sternguard. Throw in the Rhino situation and it gets worse; while you can jump out of a Rhino and shoot someone up with your plasma, you can't jump out and assault as easily.

 

All that said, a new codex is likely just around the corner and rumours seem to suggest that Chosen will have 2 attacks. So my advice would be to take what you like.

[Hellios]

However, BS4 with 5 plasma weapons or 5 multimeltas (I'd argue even 5 flamers aren't to be taken too lightly) is a pretty neat little unit.

 

A few flamers + meltabombs is pretty neat. Flamers will eat the horde, enough hits can even kill a few MEQ or TEQ guys and if you run into armour you can use those meltabombs... Also that is fairly cheap.

 

Even in 5th I've had plasma chosen do bad to my enemies. As someone has pointed out... enough plasma CAN do something against everything but AV14 units with a bit or luck and will murder many things without luck at all.

 

Melta squads are better suited for dedicated armour hunters.

[Hellios]

However, BS4 with 5 plasma weapons or 5 multimeltas (I'd argue even 5 flamers aren't to be taken too lightly) is a pretty neat little unit.

 

A few flamers + meltabombs is pretty neat. Flamers will eat the horde, enough hits can even kill a few MEQ or TEQ guys and if you run into armour you can use those meltabombs... Also that is fairly cheap.

 

Even in 5th I've had plasma chosen do bad to my enemies. As someone has pointed out... enough plasma CAN do something against everything but AV14 units with a bit or luck and will murder many things without luck at all.

 

Melta squads are better suited for dedicated armour hunters.

[Feste]

A few flamers + meltabombs is pretty neat. Flamers will eat the horde, enough hits can even kill a few MEQ or TEQ guys and if you run into armour you can use those meltabombs... Also that is fairly cheap.

I really like that idea, thanks I might steal it :P

 

There's a lot of talk about torrent of fire, well flamers are pretty much exactly that. The filthy Ork Burnaboyz are pretty terrifying and this is similar. I'd imagine that sort of squad would probably work best with a full 10 man unit, rather than 5 man 'combat squad'? Although that is increasing the cost somewhat.

[Iron Sage]

Last battle I fought versus Guard, I drove an outflanking rhino with 8 Iron warriors with 5 melta guns in behind his gunline, and promtly blew 300+ points of (2) Leman Russ into molten lava. Unfortunatly, Guard infantry with their insane ammount of lasgun shots with the odd plasma and autocannon shots, then made my 8 guys 2. Those two happened to die after assaulting a blob squad (overwatch).

 

From my point of view, 5 melta guys seems to be very reliable anti tank. I personally regret taking 8 in my last battle, as 8 doesnt seem enough to survive a round of harsh shooting anyway, and in particular versus Guard.

 

Unfortunatly, I sadly mostly play against Guard and Necrons (these days) due to having not that many people to play with in the first place, so I assume that 5 Chosen might survive a turn of shooting better against some Codices which are not Imperial Guard.

[Feste]

I'm really curious about the blob assault. Was this an optimistic gamble, or a opportunistic sacrificial charge?

 

It sounds like your experience gets to part of the problem. After the 5 guys with special goodies, you're paying 19 points for almost a standard marine. And Chosen have got no extra defenses over standard marines. Sure, 5 guys is only 15 points more but that's 3 melta bombs in your army.

 

Does anyone take Icons for them? A Nurgle or Tzeentch Icon sounds like a decent idea.

[Iron Sage]

I'm really curious about the blob assault. Was this an optimistic gamble, or a opportunistic sacrificial charge?

 

It sounds like your experience gets to part of the problem. After the 5 guys with special goodies, you're paying 19 points for almost a standard marine. And Chosen have got no extra defenses over standard marines. Sure, 5 guys is only 15 points more but that's 3 melta bombs in your army.

 

Does anyone take Icons for them? A Nurgle or Tzeentch Icon sounds like a decent idea.

 

Gamble, or should I say, a last effort of securing a victory (he was sitting on an objective with the blob squad and it was turn 5, and he had wiped all my troops off the table barring my own little secure squad of thousand sons that was sitting on my own objective.. Point is, he went first, he got firstblood, managed to slay 2 obliterators, and my expensive flying tzeentchian daemon prince (this was 2 days before the new faq telling me that he now can fly properly), and take out a rhino. What I am trying to say is that he made me work very hard to accomplish anything offensive at all, so the outflanking chosen was really just my LAST chance at denying him victory (I lost by one bloody point due to him having first blood secured in turn one), after my 5 terminators (who was the ones that was actually going to deny according to my master plan) had a deepstrike mishap, making my cruel opponent deploying them in the back of my own deployment sone and therefore out fo the battle.

 

Anyway. I confess I did a lot of mistakes in this battle, but it was also my first 6ed battle, and I found Mathias Guardlist to be immensly BUFFED by the 6ed rule book. I am just happy that he has yet to paint his fliers, so thats one evil that I have not yet faced...

 

Edit: Maybe this is only truly valid against Mathias typical guard lists (which happens to have way too much ordnance in them for my liking, with 3 L Russ and psyker squads...), but to my great surprise I have found the over costed Thousand Sons to excell as objective holders, as they ignore all of that attrocious ordnance to a degree, and also makes a surprise beat by Rambo a bit less likely (I will never forget the game I played where I had 7 plague marines and a chaos lord in one squad sitting in +5 cover around an objective when Marbo pops up, and promtly WIPES them OUT with a demo charge...)

[Feste]

To get a little off topic, but a similar thing happened to me. First blood lost me my first game of 6th, and I had to push the entire game to try and make it up. I actually quite like the idea, it turns the game into far less of a draw-fest and while I think First Blood could be made better I reckon with careful placement it's not quite so much of a 'First turn for the win kind of thing'.

 

Back on topic, I realize we've only talked about extreme '5 plasma' kind of units. What about say, 2 plasma, 2 melta and a Champion with Lightning Claws, and meltabombs for everyone. That's a serious amount of utility, and I don't think anything is entirely wasted whatever you shoot at. The plasma can hurt vehicles, the melta provides a bit of Instant Death against troops, while the Claws and meltabombs are nice goodies for when it gets personal. It'd also take advantage of the infiltrate, giving you that 12" range where they're really effective. Again, you'd probably want more than just the basic 5 guys.

[Iron Sage]

To get a little off topic, but a similar thing happened to me. First blood lost me my first game of 6th, and I had to push the entire game to try and make it up. I actually quite like the idea, it turns the game into far less of a draw-fest and while I think First Blood could be made better I reckon with careful placement it's not quite so much of a 'First turn for the win kind of thing'.

 

Back on topic, I realize we've only talked about extreme '5 plasma' kind of units. What about say, 2 plasma, 2 melta and a Champion with Lightning Claws, and meltabombs for everyone. That's a serious amount of utility, and I don't think anything is entirely wasted whatever you shoot at. The plasma can hurt vehicles, the melta provides a bit of Instant Death against troops, while the Claws and meltabombs are nice goodies for when it gets personal. It'd also take advantage of the infiltrate, giving you that 12" range where they're really effective. Again, you'd probably want more than just the basic 5 guys.

 

Hmm, interesting (and yes, sorry I went out and beyond the topic :) . Conventional wisdom says that mixing assault and rapid fire arms is unwise, and in general I think this is true. However, with the change to rapid fire, perhaps such a multi purpose unit like you are mentioning above might actually have a place. It depends though on your opponent this I suspect. I dont see me taking 2 chosen with meltas against Guard for instance (too low chance to cripple a leman russ squad of 2+ models).

[Ifrit446]

To get a little off topic, but a similar thing happened to me. First blood lost me my first game of 6th, and I had to push the entire game to try and make it up. I actually quite like the idea, it turns the game into far less of a draw-fest and while I think First Blood could be made better I reckon with careful placement it's not quite so much of a 'First turn for the win kind of thing'.

 

Back on topic, I realize we've only talked about extreme '5 plasma' kind of units. What about say, 2 plasma, 2 melta and a Champion with Lightning Claws, and meltabombs for everyone. That's a serious amount of utility, and I don't think anything is entirely wasted whatever you shoot at. The plasma can hurt vehicles, the melta provides a bit of Instant Death against troops, while the Claws and meltabombs are nice goodies for when it gets personal. It'd also take advantage of the infiltrate, giving you that 12" range where they're really effective. Again, you'd probably want more than just the basic 5 guys.

 

Hmm, interesting (and yes, sorry I went out and beyond the topic ;) . Conventional wisdom says that mixing assault and rapid fire arms is unwise, and in general I think this is true. However, with the change to rapid fire, perhaps such a multi purpose unit like you are mentioning above might actually have a place. It depends though on your opponent this I suspect. I dont see me taking 2 chosen with meltas against Guard for instance (too low chance to cripple a leman russ squad of 2+ models).

 

Well then what about something that has variety for everything?? Like a "jack of all Trades" Chosen...10 Marines, Icon of Nurgle for resilience, 2 Flamers, 2 meltas, and a Champ with Claws and meltabombs?? That could be deadly

[Iron Sage]

To get a little off topic, but a similar thing happened to me. First blood lost me my first game of 6th, and I had to push the entire game to try and make it up. I actually quite like the idea, it turns the game into far less of a draw-fest and while I think First Blood could be made better I reckon with careful placement it's not quite so much of a 'First turn for the win kind of thing'.

 

Back on topic, I realize we've only talked about extreme '5 plasma' kind of units. What about say, 2 plasma, 2 melta and a Champion with Lightning Claws, and meltabombs for everyone. That's a serious amount of utility, and I don't think anything is entirely wasted whatever you shoot at. The plasma can hurt vehicles, the melta provides a bit of Instant Death against troops, while the Claws and meltabombs are nice goodies for when it gets personal. It'd also take advantage of the infiltrate, giving you that 12" range where they're really effective. Again, you'd probably want more than just the basic 5 guys.

 

Hmm, interesting (and yes, sorry I went out and beyond the topic ;) . Conventional wisdom says that mixing assault and rapid fire arms is unwise, and in general I think this is true. However, with the change to rapid fire, perhaps such a multi purpose unit like you are mentioning above might actually have a place. It depends though on your opponent this I suspect. I dont see me taking 2 chosen with meltas against Guard for instance (too low chance to cripple a leman russ squad of 2+ models).

 

Well then what about something that has variety for everything?? Like a "jack of all Trades" Chosen...10 Marines, Icon of Nurgle for resilience, 2 Flamers, 2 meltas, and a Champ with Claws and meltabombs?? That could be deadly

 

Yes, it probably could (be deadly), but it would also be quite expensive. Maybe it will be different in the next codex as marks are rumoured to be per unit and not just on an iconbearer model like in our current one. Also, I honestly think 2 melta is too little melta to do the job (if the job is anti tank).

Not really sure.I dont really have a lot of expertise,but I do think that 5-8 man chosen would be the most cost effective way of fielding them.Remember, they do compete with terminators in elite slots, so they must be both relativly cheap and effective to justify not taking termies instead. The only way of making them reliably effective enough, is outflanking/inflitrating with melta or plasma spam I suspect.

But maybe someone else will chime in and tear what I said now to pieces (Wouldnt mind to say the least).

[Feste]

My thoughts with the Claws on the sergeant were simply that they're going to be operating in charge range of the enemy, the Champion can actually make use of them while the rest of the troop aren't slouches in CC, therefore a bit of CC punch might make people hesitate to assault them.

 

The entire unit can take meltabombs, I'd almost be tempted to load up with those instead of meltaguns and then take plasma and flamers. A flamer and meltabomb is the same price as a meltagun. You could multi-assault the tanks to get lots of damage off, while walkers might not want to be anywhere near that unit. And assaulting a unit armed with 2 or 3 flamers is no joke for anything without power armour.

 

As a loyal bearer of the Word of Lorgar I'm all for eight-man squads. I reckon that you'll need a few bodies to take sacrifice themselves so that your special weapon marines aren't getting lost immediately.

[Morannon]

Unfortunatly, I sadly mostly play against Guard and Necrons (these days) due to having not that many people to play with in the first place, so I assume that 5 Chosen might survive a turn of shooting better against some Codices which are not Imperial Guard.

 

I'm in the exact same predicament :)

[Trevak Dal]

So you guys would say that a shooty unit is better faring than a Close Combat Chosen unit??

 

Fist Fights are weighted heavily against Chosen (at current), and indeed isn't a "no brainer" anymore thanks to not being able to assault out of transports. Chosen at current only get 2 attacks base, not 3 like suggested in the DV box, and they don't have any USRs helping them get into cc, (like the beserkers have Furious charge-though that's taken a hit losing +1 Initiative...)

 

Heres hoping for a assault ramp option on rhinos...or if im going to be shot at for a turn at least give us drop pods/teleportation.

[Feste]

An assault ramp on a Rhino would be a beautiful thing, if the specialised marks for vehicles comes off maybe one of them will do it? For a heavily assault army, having one 200+ pt assault vehicle does limit options a little. Although a wave of Cultists might well provide the necessary cover for running headlong at the enemy.

[Iron Sage]

An assault ramp on a Rhino would be a beautiful thing, if the specialised marks for vehicles comes off maybe one of them will do it? For a heavily assault army, having one 200+ pt assault vehicle does limit options a little. Although a wave of Cultists might well provide the necessary cover for running headlong at the enemy.

 

Mark of Khorne on a Rhino = Assault ramp. Now wouldn`t that be lovely? :rolleyes:

 

Lol, this is just wishful thinking though and I fear our rhinos will be pretty much as they are now (still pretty cheap, so not all that bad now either, but less utillity than before).

[Feste]

Not necessarily. There were some rumours about a Predator with Mark of Khorne doing wound on tank shock like a mini deff-rolla, or a Land Raider with it allowing assaulting directly into a building. I think that was about it, but with that and Jes Goodwin's remarks about corrupted vehicles are particularly poorly represented it's maybe a little more than straight wishlisting.

 

Although it'd be a brave man who'd buy a 30pt upgrade for a Rhino.

[techsoldaten]

Although it'd be a brave man who'd buy a 30pt upgrade for a Rhino.

Dozer blade and havok launcher get you there right now.

 

What I am really hoping to see the repair rule get a little better and allow you to restore hull points. Here is a scenario where it could be really useful:

 

1) You have a unit of Chosen infiltrated in a Rhino.

 

2) You drive the Rhino up into charge range. Since you can't assault the turn you disembark, you use the smoke launchers to give your guys some cover.

 

3) The enemy shoots up the Rhino without blowing it up.

 

4) In your next turn, you assault with the Chosen while the Rhino gets repaired. This restores a hull point.

 

5) After the assault, the Rhino is good for taking the Chosen to another target. If the Chosen get wiped out, the Rhino tank shocks the enemy.

[Sception]

3) The enemy shoots up the Rhino without blowing it up.

 

I didn't think this was a thing that happens anymore.