Khorne Armies in 6e?

[ArmageddonBorn]

So I haven't played 40k since 3rd edition. I've tried to get back into it a few times but it's been unsuccessful. With the new release of 6e, I'm thinking about building a CSM army centered around Khorne. I'm pretty familiar with 5e rules, although I've never played it. I don't own and haven't read the 6e rules yet. Finally, I know that the CSM codex hasn't come out yet.

 

My question is, can people give me an in-a-nutshell summary of how Khorne are going to change from 5e to 6e? I read something about transports being crazy delicate and cc armies being a lot less effective. Is this true? Should I consider an army besides Khorne if I care about winning regularly?

[Cheex]

I can't say I've been having much luck with my Khorne army; the improvements to the shooting rules and the complete nerfing of Rhinos as an assault transport have made using the army very hard.

 

But we're supposed to be getting a new codex very soon, as in next month, so I'd just wait around until we know a little more about it.

[Rain]

I guess that depends on what you mean by "Khorne army". Currently a "pure" World Eaters army would really just be berzerkers and a lord/DP and maybe terminators though those are for some reason less angry than the berzerkers. This will obviously only work in casual games, at the very least you would need to add obliterators to stand much of a chance which aren't very Khorney but are essentially indispensable in the current codex. That said, as Cheexsta said, next month should bring a new codex which might change some things though probably not too much. Berzerkers are supposedly getting cheaper though not changing otherwise and the problem with rhinos is the vehicle rules themselves which is kind of a drag. Essentially the main hope is an improvement in support units and perhaps some silly overpowered death star that can survive overwatch. Hey at least be happy you don't play Tzeentch. Poor Tzeentch has sucked as long as I can remember.

[techsoldaten]

I guess that depends on what you mean by "Khorne army". Currently a "pure" World Eaters army would really just be berzerkers and a lord/DP and maybe terminators though those are for some reason less angry than the berzerkers.

You could also take CSMs, Chosen, Havocs, Bikers, Raptors, Terminators and even Possessed with MoK / IoK, plus Summoned Daemons or a Daemon ally contingent. Berzerkers are not the only unit available to a Khorne army, even from a fluff standpoint.

 

Like someone else said, the new Codex will be here in a couple of weeks, so we will see how the new rules affect the options you have. From all accounts, Berzerkers are getting cheaper, which may or may not be a good thing. The big thing that makes Berzerkers had to deal with is the axe nerf, I usually run one or two squads of them and have been having a hard time with the low initiative axes. In the first 6th ed game I played, 2 10 man squads of them only managed to kill 7 SoB models before going down in CC.

 

The new rules for Rhinos have been less of an issue, I have only had one run into hull point issues. The big problem is with disembarking, you can't drive your berzerkers up in a Rhino and have them charge immediately anymore. It's taking me 3 - 4 rounds to get them into position for a charge, which is totally alien to the CC style of play for these units. The strategy I have been playing around with recently is to get the Rhino up close -> disembark the troops -> pop smoke for cover -> charge the next turn. This is giving enemy units a lot of time to react / retreat / bring in a tank and really complicating what should be a simple charge.

 

I keep wanting to tell GW: These is 40k, not Candyland, and these guys shouldn't be acting like they are stuck in a gumdrop syrup river. It's hard to make a pile of skulls when you can't get close, hit last, and trip up going around fortifications.

[Cheex]

The big thing that makes Berzerkers had to deal with is the axe nerf, I usually run one or two squads of them and have been having a hard time with the low initiative axes. In the first 6th ed game I played, 2 10 man squads of them only managed to kill 7 SoB models before going down in CC.

Axe nerf? Power axes on Champions aren't so bad, except when they get cut down by challenges. This shouldn't really affect the rest of the squad. If having a power axe isn't working for you, just swap it for a power sword instead...

 

I agree with the rest of your post, though. The biggest issue we have at the moment is just getting to the enemy. Berzerkers are mean when they get to combat, but Rhinos simply aren't reliable as transports for assault units any more, and the changes to the damage chart mean that they're not likely to work as mobile walls, either. That's one of the big things I hope the new codex will address.

[A D-B]

I agree with the rest of your post, though. The biggest issue we have at the moment is just getting to the enemy. Berzerkers are mean when they get to combat, but Rhinos simply aren't reliable as transports for assault units any more, and the changes to the damage chart mean that they're not likely to work as mobile walls, either. That's one of the big things I hope the new codex will address.

 

Maybe it's overkill, but would Storm Eagles, Dreadclaws and Land Raiders solve the inefficiency of Rhinos?

[Ammonius]

I agree with the rest of your post, though. The biggest issue we have at the moment is just getting to the enemy. Berzerkers are mean when they get to combat, but Rhinos simply aren't reliable as transports for assault units any more, and the changes to the damage chart mean that they're not likely to work as mobile walls, either. That's one of the big things I hope the new codex will address.

 

Maybe it's overkill, but would Storm Eagles, Dreadclaws and Land Raiders solve the inefficiency of Rhinos?

Only if they were the same points value of a Rhino?

The other consideration is that none of those options are dedicated transports (So far).

[RapatoR]

Well I play against Khorne army frequently and I am always scared. Well we do not play leafblower lists or whatnot, but still, even my SW friend is uneasy when facing it. I might be biased but I consider them being more lethal than they were before. Combine it with Khorne deamon allies and reserve buff and I think this is very good army.

p.s.

I for one think that axes very good. On a charge you get 5 attacks that hit on 3s and wound on 2s and I saw cut half of my squad just like that.

[Lord Doyok]

Since the new FAQ came around, I've put my DE to rest and start playing pure World Eaters and bag home some winnings (Not much, but at least more than I lost). It is much more difficult since we can't disembark and charge, but vehicles are much faster now with new flat out rules. Some more in 6th ed, we control the battlefield in terms of terrain placement. What I usually did was place terrain where I plan to attack or disembark in Turn 2. If can find LoS blocking terrain is much better. Support them with a couple of FMCs, another unit in Land Raider and deepstriking Khorne Terminators. When we reach that point, the opponent will have difficulty stoping the Red tide.

[Lord Doyok]

From the pictures online, it seems that our Berserkers comes at one attack base. They have Rage so still got 4 attacks on the charge at S5 with Furious Charge. The good thing is that they are now 6 pts less.

 

My WE was horde in 4th Ed (Blood Rage + Talisman of Burning Blood)

They turned mechanize in the 5th

I wonder how they will evolve with the new codex

[Iron Sage]

From the pictures online, it seems that our Berserkers comes at one attack base. They have Rage so still got 4 attacks on the charge at S5 with Furious Charge. The good thing is that they are now 6 pts less.

 

My WE was horde in 4th Ed (Blood Rage + Talisman of Burning Blood)

They turned mechanize in the 5th

I wonder how they will evolve with the new codex

 

They also have "counter attack"

[Killax]

They do now, yes.

 

As far as I've seen the stuff you can field 16 point a model hatred Khorne Bezerkers who are absolutely excellent vs Marine armies, imho, this would make them quite competative.

 

Now offcourse I don't have the codex yet and I also can't make a 6th edition list for them now but I feel they might become quite competative like mech lists can be.

 

Combine 3 Rhino's with Zekers and Helldrakes sounds like a plan to me.

 

Cheers,

[Rain]

Sorry to say this my bloody brothers but it really looks like Khorne is going to stay pretty bad in this edition. It doesn't look like we are getting any silly deathstars or drop pods or any other delivery systems to make up for the current issues with Rhinos and combined with both fists and axes being unwieldy and forced challenges means that we will have to take champions with swords (which look silly on World Eaters) who even then will get butchered by enemy characters/Eldar/Slaanesh since we no longer get I5 on the charge. Oh and our daemon weapon is an axe so it will be alright on a prince (if they can take daemon weapons at all) but is otherwise just a glammed up powerfist.

 

Oh and Counterattack? Seriously? Mark of Khorne lets you charge at people charging you? Except not really because you don't get your silly +2 rage attacks which we got as a tradeoff from just having a flat extra attack. You know what would have been a lot more characterful and leagues better? Having it make power axes no longer unwieldy for marked units. Or even have the banner grant that or well, something. It's such an emblematic weapon and combined with challenges it's such trash. Oh on the topic of axes, Khornate Chainaxes are a thing again now except instead of being awesome they are just AP4 so they deny saves on units that don't really depend on saves anyway, how nice. But yeah, we're cheaper, but so is everyone else over the last couple of codices so it's really not that special. After all of this waiting this codex is just so--ugh. Well at least Tzeentch is still trash as I predicted.

[Lord Doyok]

Life as a Khorne Lord had never been easy and it was made much harder since the 6th Ed.

But WE are still playable. Otherwise we wouldn't have win at all since 6th ed came around.

 

I'm not so downed by the new Berserker stats. But the point increase of DP was kinda shock. The same Khorne DP setup we usually see right now will cost around 200 points with the new codex. I can see the reason, but it was still kinda shock to me.

[greatcrusade08]

Oh and our daemon weapon is an axe so it will be alright on a prince (if they can take daemon weapons at all) but is otherwise just a glammed up powerfist.

Actually this is incorrect.

Khârn has the unwieldy rule, but bloodfeeders do not, the type of weapon (what it looks like, axe, mace whatever) has no bearing on a DWs rules.

its AP2 two handed regardless

 

Oh and Counterattack? Seriously? Mark of Khorne lets you charge at people charging you? Except not really because you don't get your silly +2 rage attacks which we got as a tradeoff from just having a flat extra attack.

yeah it makes no sense to reduce our attacks and then give us counter attack.. we are bascially grey hunters without meltas or flamers.

i mean seriously we dont kill maim and plasmaburn in his name.. where are the flamers dammit!

 

at least we hate marines now, so re-roll those pesky ones.. great news for Khârn who hits on a 2+ aswell.

 

i think khorne could be ok in this edition, the bloodfeeders got a whole load better under the new rules, even if you hit yourself you still get your shedload of attacks

[Cheex]

Sorry to say this my bloody brothers but it really looks like Khorne is going to stay pretty bad in this edition.

It's a themed list, it'd be hard to expect Khorne armies to be top-tier. That said, I don't think we'll be at the bottom of the heap, not by a long shot.

 

It doesn't look like we are getting any silly deathstars

We don't need deathstars to be effective. If you're worried about dealing with other deathstars, rest assured that we'll have the tools to deal with them. S8 plasma cannons will make Paladins cry.

 

or drop pods or any other delivery systems to make up for the current issues with Rhinos

Now this I agree with. It's a bit disappointing just how ineffective Rhinos are as actual delivery systems. However, if Berzerkers can take the Icon of Wrath to re-roll charge distances, it will go a fair way to making our assaults that little bit more reliable. If you take some disposable Rhinos with dirge casters (which will now suppress Overwatch fire), you might find that getting the assault will be easier.

 

On another plus side, we'll have plenty of other viable assault units to use now as well. Raptors, Warp Talons or Bikes with the Mark of Khorne (and Icon of Wrath, if you're so inclined) will provide plenty of relatively cheap, fast options that will apparently hit quite hard now. Far more reliably than in the current codex, at least. Berzerkers will likely fill a backup role, becoming a secondary attack to consolidate objectives and the like.

 

and combined with both fists and axes being unwieldy and forced challenges means that we will have to take champions with swords (which look silly on World Eaters) who even then will get butchered by enemy characters/Eldar/Slaanesh since we no longer get I5 on the charge.

That's a good point, but who is to say that power swords will be our only option? I'm not implying knowledge of some fancy new weapons, but if the Berzerker entry is anything like the leaked pages that include the CSM entry, then our Champions will have access to the whole Melee wargear list. This may well include other options, like lightning claws or other, better weapons than simple swords. Who knows?

 

Oh and our daemon weapon is an axe so it will be alright on a prince (if they can take daemon weapons at all) but is otherwise just a glammed up powerfist.

Maybe. We'll have to see how it all goes together before making judgements like this, but you may well be right. And I suspect that Daemon Princes will get access to Daemon Weapons; the leaked pages show that they have access to the whole Chaos Artefacts wargear list, which seems likely to include Daemon Weapons.

 

Oh and Counterattack? Seriously? Mark of Khorne lets you charge at people charging you? Except not really because you don't get your silly +2 rage attacks which we got as a tradeoff from just having a flat extra attack.

This I agree with. I can understand Kelly's approach: he wants to make Khorne good in the initial stages of combat, before losing momentum in the later stages. But yes, a straight +1 attack would have been far simpler.

 

Oh and our daemon weapon is an axe so it will be alright on a prince (if they can take daemon weapons at all) but is otherwise just a glammed up powerfist.

Actually this is incorrect.

Khârn has the unwieldy rule, but bloodfeeders do not, the type of weapon (what it looks like, axe, mace whatever) has no bearing on a DWs rules.

its AP2 two handed regardless

I believe he was referring to the rumoured Khorne Daemon Weapon, which was a fancy power axe (with Unwieldy and everything). I don't recall the whole rules, but it's not really like the current Bloodfeeder at all.

 

at least we hate marines now, so re-roll those pesky ones.. great news for Khârn who hits on a 2+ aswell.

You're thinking of Preferred Enemy; Hatred instead gives you rerolls on all of your To Hit rolls in the first round of each combat. See comment above about Berzerkers losing momentum. At least we know we'll have little issue wiping out our enemies on the charge...

[Caffeineated Chaos]

Also while I suspect Gorechild will still be unwieldy, in the new codex Khârn has the fixed warlord trait that gives everyone in his unit Hatred against everything. Should help and could save at least one squad from buying vets of the long war. Btw does anyone else think Kharnshould have a commissar/boss pole rule? I know he kills enough people as it is and marines don't really need it, esp w/ his leadership 10, but it'd be amusing and fluffy in it's way

[Lord Doyok]

we are bascially grey hunters without meltas or flamers

More like Bloodclaws with better BS and WS :P

 

in the new codex Khârn has the fixed warlord trait that gives everyone in his unit Hatred against everything

I pray he didn't cost 200++ pts.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Nope he got a 15pts drop!, he costs 160pts.

 

What i'm considering of doing is taking Zerer squads has usual, and Khorne CSM, with a pair of flamers/meltas and Bolters+CCW+BP, so that they can flat fire units or tenderize them so that Zerkers can just go through them.

 

Those would be called WE Legionnaires, while we have WE Berzerkers.

 

With Khârn and a unit of Chosens in a LR/Stormeagle, 2 Heldrakes, 1 WE Termi squad, 2 Bikers squads, A Maulerfiend and a Dread/Defiler.

 

With Deamons/IG Allies..., maybe a Corrupted IG regiment with Veterans in Valks as a rapid insertion force and a squadron of Leman Russ, those could be played as a Blood Pact division...

[greatcrusade08]

of course cheaper options would be regular CSM squads with BP/ccw, perhaps they can be given flamers and meltas too.. much cheaper than zerks, but themey

[Emperors Immortals]

of course cheaper options would be regular CSM squads with BP/ccw, perhaps they can be given flamers and meltas too.. much cheaper than zerks, but themey

 

 

Add a dark apostle and you got a great back up assault unit :)

[Cheex]

I suspect that CSM will become a pretty useful unit for us, especially now that they can be Fearless. 10 CSM with the Icon of Vengeance and a couple of special weapons will be quite handy to stand on an objective. Cultists would be cheaper, but not as reliable.

[Killax]

Yep that should be quite a good unit.

 

In the end, I might just end up with a shooty khorne army.

Counterattack and Rage are really good combined with Bolters and other special weapons as we have seen with Space Wolves.

 

The only reason I really want to field some Bezerkers to is because they are nuts and cool :P

[Lord Ferox Heartcleaver]

Yeah, it's tempting to just take CSMs instead of berserkers. One thing that needs to be remembered is how "all-comers" a berserker unit can get, as it looks like they can be made to shred anything short of TEQ while only hitting 18 ppm (only two points more than a "basic" Khornate CSM squad). So I think they'll still have a solid place.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I agree with earlier posts that taking away the base attack and adding counter attack and rage was kinda silly, but I guess it evens out.

 

I am excited for the new Codex. I have only played one game with my Khorne army since 3rd/beginning of 4th. I will run my list like I always did. DP with wings. Bloodthirster, 2 or 3 units of 8 Berserkers and a unit of 8 bloodletters. I will see how the points come out, but I usually add havocs or oblits. Its just a bummer about the demon prince price increase. Maybe I will run a lord instead.

 

I only ran with one rhino back in the day, cuz I was a broke kid. I will probably not run any. Oh, and for a delivery method. Lead with a huge blob of cultists. Theyre fodder.