Chaplain Admetus Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Thread says it all :o. I'm considering adding special weapons into my assault squads as I think that'll give me more bang for my buck than the 3 tactical marines worth of points I've spent making my librarian an epistolary. Currently leading the charge are a pair of meltaguns and a pair of flamers (for what its worth, I've been running 2 10 man squads, with a fist in one and a hammer in the other as the only bonus wargear). My question is: how best do I utilise this? Option 1: A flamer and a melta in each squad, for the best of both worlds. Gives me slightly more flexibility at the cost of consistency. Option 2: Both meltas in one unit and both flamers in the other, giving me an anti-tank/heavy infantry squad and an anti-light infantry/horde squad. The big draw to this is being able to combat squad the melta unit, so I can have a pair of meltas drop from the sky and slag something. If I went for this option Option 3: A different layout (something involving plasma, or all meltaguns, or some such). I don't have much experience using special weapons in assault squads (generally limited to the odd plasma pistol here and there) so any advice is greatly appreciated! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I highly recommend 2 meltas in one squad, 2 flamers in the other. Or all meltaguns is good too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 i have 2 assault squads with packs and melta guns and 1 assault squad in rhino with flamer and infernus pistol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rainbow Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think there's a place for all the weapon options but I agree that mixing is not always the best idea. In the end it comes down to what roles you see your ASM playing and what else you have in your force. Do you have AP2 elsewhere? Can you bust tanks with other units, etc. As for myself, melta is still my load-out of choice. A squad with 2x meltagun and a gunslinger sarge with 2x Infernus can combat squad and cause some serious damage in the enemy backfield when deep striking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mapple Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I would only add two of the same special weapons to a squad if you're going to make an otherwise all-around, balanced list. The theme for me in 6th Ed. is flexibility and multiple roles - so I need my units to do more things or to do 2 things really well. Assault squads are good all-rounders, so if I want to keep the multiple roles, then the combat squads needs to fulfill those if the whole squad doesn't. Examples of how I run mine: 10 Jumpers with power sword/melta bomb SGT and 2x melta - 235 pts - decent scoring and assault unit, but very good tank hunters. Now split them up: 2 squads of 5 Jumpers - 1 squad with 2x melta guns plus kraks, and 1 squad with SGT power sword/melta bomb, and full 3 attacks on charge from members. With this setup I keep my tank hunting ability and my assault unit, but I lose survivability in both. I do gain additional deployment options like Deep Striking them separately for tank/MC hunting and the other for objective grabbing, or starting one on and one off the board, etc. 10 Jumpers with power sword/melta bomb SGT and 1x melta and 1 flamer - similar to the above, but some charge defense and mixed roles. Everyone still has kraks, I have the SGT and the melta doing anti-tank, and SGT, general squad, and flamer doing anti-infantry. 10 Jumpers with power fist SGT and 2x flamers - SGT and 4 men can go hunt tanks with Kraks in assault (unless it's a Landraider) and the other 5 with 2x flamers can go tie up infantry or clear objectives of enemies. If they camp an objective and get charged, thats 2D3 of automatic Overwatch hits, so it's a deterrent to smaller units. Good for taking out scouts/eldar/tau/lootas other backfield campers. Making the Assault squads dedicated to one role, by say taking Power Fist plus 2x meltas, or power sword plus 2x flamers, means their secondary role is almost non existent. Sure, the first one still has 3x attacks on the charge but AP2 hits go last, and with unit 2 there's Krak grenades, but then you can't realistically open the transport/tank to assault it's contents which meltaguns are good for. I can't stress enough the difference in survivability between combat squads and 10 man units. It's easier to hide characters, easier to make it across the board by jumping or Deep Strike, etc. And making them With that said, I run 3 Assault squads most of the time in a all-comers list. I take 1 with 2x melta, 1 with 2x flamer, and one mixed. This allows me to keep the mixed and flamer squad full strength and hide the librarian and priest inside of the mixed squad. The 2x flamers go in front of it to act as a charge-screen (since people won't charge the front 2x flamer as much) and then I combat squad the 2x melta. The meltas Deep Strike to take out some ugly high AV thing and distract from my Vanguard Vets hopefully also coming down, and the 5 man squad with a power sword go inside the Stormraven to have high-speed objective grabbers anywhere I need them turn 2/3, or someone to tie up an enemy unit in assault through a dummy charge on turn 3. Something else I saw someone do is take 2x plasmaguns and put them in a combat squad that sits back with devastators or predators to score while the other squad goes in a Stormraven. The plasma squad doesn't worry about assaults since it's shooting rapidfire weapons, but with a 36" range from jumping and shooting, they can put out hits pretty reliably and be a good backfield camper, especially with a priest and power weapon covering the squad and devastators. Haven't played with it myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I vote option 2 for sure. Due to excellent mobility, an Assault Squad can generally be very choosy when it comes to target selection. Personally, I never trust a single Meltagun to accomplish anything. I've had my hopes dashed (about 33% of the time :unsure: ) when I've allocated only one MG to go break something. Redundancy and failsafes are watchwords for me, especially when you've already got the 10 men (no reason not to take the 2nd MG). For squads with MG, I generally take MB on the Sarge as well. I've been so very tempted to grab some Plasmaguns. I theorized in the very first days of 6th ed that the PG would be amazing--- well, not being able to assault after firing one just hurts so badly. And my 'kiting' theories haven't panned out, I just have never needed to use the tactic. I realize now that my playstyle is generally more aggressive and while PG could bag an extra TEQ or two over the course of a game, I'm just not sure I can justify it. Generally things that Jumpers would want to kite can shoot back with more weight than 2 PG. If Assault Squads could take Bolters, I'd consider the PG. I wanted to like them-- but I just can't make them work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Thanks for the replies so far - good to get different ideas bouncing around and hopefully it helps sort things out. If it helps (and since Mapple mentioned) I tend to run a balanced list most of the time; what I'm currently working with is: Librarian with Jump Pack Priest with Jump Pack 8 Sternguard in Drop Pod with Meltagun, Plasma Gun, 3x Combi-meltas, Power Fist 10 Assault Marines with Power Fist 10 Assault Marines with Thunder Hammer 10 Tactical Marines with Power Fist, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino 5 Devastators with 4 Missile Launchers Baal Predator with Twin-Linked Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons That leaves me with 55 points to spend on "stuff" @Blindhamster - I used to run a 9 man squad with fist, flamer and plasma pistol in a rhino backed up by a sanguinary priest... being unable to assault out of a rhino has lost a lot of bite from the squad though, so I'm not happy with running rhino assault squads just based on how rubbish they've been. @John Rainbow: My AP2 elsewhere is in the Sternguard, who's general plan is to turn up on turn 1 and break whatever threatens me the most; I've yet to face an army that doesn't have a good target for them unless I'm going first vs Daemons. There's a lone meltagun in the tactical squad to give them a bit of punch, normally the half of the combat squad that goes rhino scouting (the ASM tend to hammer things off of objectives, and push forward, using the tacticals to sit on the objective afterwards). Also, what do people think of making some other cuts (thinking maybe the devastators, but they're always really good) in favour of a comparatively cheap vanguard squad? (Power weapon, Jump Packs and meltabombs). Part of me really likes the idea of an all-jump pack army if I can squeeze it in time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Oh just remembered! In favor of two meltaguns, when you have Prescience active they can be pretty exciting to use on overwatch--- they can bag you about one assaulter, and help with lengthening that charge range. Not to mention potential to slag a Walker that's about to assault you. Two meltaguns on overwatch have 33% chance for one hit; if you have Prescience active, the chance of at least one hit goes to 66%. I destroyed a charging Necron Chariot that way once--- the look on the opponent's face was pretty good. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I have one of my RAS kitted out with a melta, a flamer, and the sarg with a PF and an Ipistol. You end up with options and have melta redundancy. Plus 6th gave the sarg a little perk with that slim chance to snipe somebody. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 "The 2x flamers go in front of it to act as a charge-screen (since people won't charge the front 2x flamer as much)" Thats pretty much how I run them, gives the melta squad a 4+ cover save, and charge screen. Toying with adding two hand flamers to the flamer unit :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I like what 2*PG and 2*PP assault squads do, but I don't like paying for it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Maikel Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 With 2 10-man RAS I generally run 2x Flamer in one and 2x Melta in the other rather than mixed squads. You can still split up with one special per squad to go for multiple targets, but you can also concentrate firepower to make sure your 2x Melta squad can deep strike into position and wipe out the highest priority target. You can also split the meltas only to go multi-target against tanks while keeping your anti-infantry squad together for a bit more robustness. With mixed squads you'd have to split both to shoot at multiple tanks. Just in case I usually throw some Melta Bombs on the sarge of the flamer squad (in case they're forced to go after a vehicle... gives 'em a bit more punch). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Been doing either 2 meltas, naked sergeant or 2 meltas, 2 pp sergeant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kem Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Good 'ol 2 melta for me, cuz you got 25 attacks on the charge to kill some odd guys Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemox Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 In 5th, I ran 2 x Meltagun in each squad, with Sarge having a PF. I'm going to downgrade the sarge now (thanks to challenges), but the Meltaguns have been nothing but awesome. No flamers, and my plasma is limited to Sang Guard and Honor Guard. This is because of the synergy of bolt pistol and Meltagun ranges, and the fact the Meltagun is an assault weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arryn Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 My 5th ed list had 2x 10 man assault squads each with a Sang Priest; 1 with 2x melta & PF, the other with 2x flamer and PF. Each would have a designated role depending on mission and opponent with the ability to combat squad up if needed (usually PF in one, 2x special weapons in the other). They usually ran around as a complete unit for maximum combat punch. I would certainly be inclined to do this again in 6th... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviox Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Due to challenges, wouldn't it be more worth it to have 2x 5 man RAS with meltagun rather than 1x 10 man with 2 meltaguns? Even if you just move them close together, you have 2 sergeants for some control of challenges. Or is there a downside I'm not seeing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Due to challenges, wouldn't it be more worth it to have 2x 5 man RAS with meltagun rather than 1x 10 man with 2 meltaguns? Even if you just move them close together, you have 2 sergeants for some control of challenges. Or is there a downside I'm not seeing? Your give up more killpoints and its harder to protect the meltagun marine. Also Prescience can only target a single unit. Basically if you have a naked sergeant and your opponent issues a challenge, it would be to his disadvange. Though a good player wont challenge you, but everyone makes mistakes, and if he comes with a power house HQ and issues one to your HQ you can feed him your sergeant to tarpit the HQ one round. If your sergeant has a fist, vs someone who is striking at initiative 4 you most likely will never get to hit with him and loose 40points (25+15), this forces you to decline and have him out of combat. Bottom line is powerfist's sarges are very exploitable in 6th edition, and with the changes to assaulting with grenades its very easy to glance veichles regardless. This is just my opionion, there may be quite a few holes to my theory. Vs some opponents being able to instakill 2+w char's is useful, just dont what large advantage a fist brings compared to for example a power axe which cost 10 points less. Though i'm skeptical to a power axe aswell, depending on if and what IC is attached to unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Sergeants get Swords or Claws. And the attached Priest gets the WS5 2A base Fist. Everyone wins. +1 for 2MG load out as well btw Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I've been so very tempted to grab some Plasmaguns. I theorized in the very first days of 6th ed that the PG would be amazing--- well, not being able to assault after firing one just hurts so badly. And my 'kiting' theories haven't panned out, I just have never needed to use the tactic. I realize now that my playstyle is generally more aggressive and while PG could bag an extra TEQ or two over the course of a game, I'm just not sure I can justify it. Generally things that Jumpers would want to kite can shoot back with more weight than 2 PG. If Assault Squads could take Bolters, I'd consider the PG. I wanted to like them-- but I just can't make them work. I tried the same thing and have been underwhelmed... I think if you want Plasma and jump packs in the same unit you take honor guard... that way the threat ranges match up on all your weapons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3177936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I've considered running melta, flamer, infernus, powerfist. Little all over the place, but you keep your 2 melta shots for tank busting, and you get the benefit of a S4 AP5 flamer as opposed to an AP6 hand flamer, which makes a huge difference, imo. Anyone have any experience with such a build? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3178135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 One Fist, Two Melta's. Like One Cup, Two Girls. It makes you sick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3178188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 One Fist, Two Melta's. Like One Cup, Two Girls. It makes you sick. Hopefully this applies to your opponent as well. :) Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3178215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 One Fist, Two Melta's. Like One Cup, Two Girls. It makes you sick. Hopefully this applies to your opponent as well. :( Snorri Just claim it's cocolate ice cream. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3178275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Just claim it's cocolate ice cream. Thanks for the image, bro. Thanks. Never gonna eat chocolate ice cream again. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261159-special-weapons-in-assault-squads/#findComment-3178298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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