Death Company Transport Conundrum

[Joasht]

I've been looking at taking Death Company in this edition, since Rage and Fearless are no longer problems. In fact, they went from being somewhat problematic to downright good.

 

The problem is, the Rhino has suffered quite a bit in this edition, with the shortened dismount and the whole "no charging for a turn if your Rhino got blown up with you in it", so much so that I feel that the Rhino is almost no longer a viable option.

 

The Drop Pod on the other hand puts you close, and may be a viable alternative since the rest of my army is fast (mostly bikes and jump packs) and should be able to catch up to them, for as long as I don't drop them right on my enemy's lines. But then they end up having to footslog anyway. Not terrible, but.....I don't know, it just lacks the mobility I'm so accustomed to.

 

The Land Raider and Storm Raven aren't too shabby, but with my games usually being 1,500 points, its a fairly heavy investment.

 

This leaves me with a sudden alternative that I thought was dead with the current codex; the Jump Pack. For almost the cost of a Tactical Marine I can give them a permanent form of increased locomotion (and reason to take Lemartes, for whatever he is worth), but the excessive cost of the pack would mean the unit might probably end up being tiny; in which case Sanguinary Guard may arguably be better.

 

Frankly, I'm at a loss at what to take. Perhaps, it varies from list-to-list; maybe if I just wanted to splash in a solid anchor (that happens to be really killy) I could just take ten DC and shove them in a pod, while if I needed them as my main assault force I should just put them in a Stormraven, kit them out, and send them straight into the enemy's face.

 

What are your thoughts on this matter?

 

Thanks!

[DominicJ]

JPs are just a pt too far for me on DC.

 

I'm trying SG in my next game.

2+ save, jp, MC/PW

My only concern is I wouldnt PW all of them if I could get them cheaper,

[Kem]

Rhino is still viable with bolter DC.

There is a topic about Pod DC.

Why whould you take a PW armed JPDC for 50 pts if you can take a SG for 40?

[SamaNagol]

Because a PW armed DC gets 5 Attacks on the Charge at WS5

[Septicon]

Not to mention fnp and fc straight out of the box, no priest needed.

[SamaNagol]

And Fearless

[Drunken Angel]

And drawn from the troops slot no elites FOC loss

[Drunken Angel]

I am running 6 JP DC with an axe, an infernus pistol, a powerfist, and 1 or 2 power swords. Thats 280.

So far they have cut through everything I send them at.

They are good in their own right either start them on the board with multiple targets. I run mine up with melta attack bikes or deepstrike then them into cover to assault next turn.

I dont throw them at anything too tough though they can tarpit if required,

I always keep at least 2 AP2 weapons in the squad.

Attack troops not elites.

Dont be frightened of terrain its pretty forgiving now.

 

I run a combined 6 DC with 5 Sanguinary Guard and they are combining well so far, the SG have a fist and 2 IP's.

I am thinking that I could drop the SG and priest and take more vanilla DC and Bikes, but the mixed AV2/AV3 armour causes all kind of problems for opponents.

A librarian syncs well with DC if you roll on the lores in Divination/Telepathy. I will run Lemartes with these guys above 1750 point games becasue its fluffy, below 1750 I think there is more value in the librarian.

Last night the 3 attack bikes SG and DC went through 2 Psyfleman dreads, 2 Chimeras, 1 Land raider, a Callidus assassin, Cotaez and his lot. I had lost a RAS, 2 priests, 4 SG 1 DC and a Raven (snap fire melta and failed jink)

I still had one SG beating on the last troops hiding in their chimera and the DC had slaughtered the last of the assassins. While the DC cant pick up a relic they are pretty good area denial. I already had slay the warlord, first blood and line breaker.

 

In answer I use jump packs, I have a Stormraven as aerial support but dont bother putting anything in it. T3 is too late for the DC to get to the fight from a Raven though it can work but duff a reserve roll and thats now T4 the soonest they make combat on. That leaves you with a LR as the other assault vehicle and thats too predictable, your opponent can see where it is going and plan around the DC.

The real threat of the DC is that you choose the who and the where to fight, jump packs are the best at this, a drop pod is a close second but once down the DC will be slow to move.

[SamaNagol]

Lemartes went from absolute monster to kind of a waste with the Challenge rules and Mace nerf.

 

Sadly.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Personal DC-Unit of taste: 8 JP-DC with 2 Axes for 310pts. Versus shootier armies, it does tend to be a bit of a pointsink (because standard RAS are 'good enough' versus shooty armies) but versus Assault Armies this 310pt DC-unit simply cleans house. I've had great success with them; not sure I'd squidge them into a Tournament list, but for friendly throwdowns they are awesomely fun.

[Septicon]

I just Deep strike them in to cover and then charge the following turn. No transport required.

 

Also I find Lemartes is awesome in challenges, 5 strength 6 attacks on the charge hitting MEQ on 3's , wounding on 2's with rerolls to hit & wound all at initiative 6. If you are lucky the opponents challenger manages to sneak a wound past his 3+/4++ and fnp and then he becomes a real beast.

[terminatorAM]

I've been having issues with this as well. I've been thinking that jump packs are better but have yet to use them in a list. I tried a drop pod once in 1000pnts and the squad never got into cc. This was due to all kind of issues: ds mishap for scattering too close to a GK strike squad thus coming in turn 2, getting 1s for 2 turns in a row when trying to cross a rive, and then me tabling the opponent so that they had no target once they got out of the water (never try to cross rivers!) I will need to try this again next game and be a little more careful.

 

Right now I'm thinking that the transport option really depends on pnts being played. Here's my idea so far: Drop pod in >1000 pnt, jump packs in 1000 - 1500 pnts, and storm raven in <2000 pnts

 

This is just an idea I've been playing around with in my planned lists, but I haven't tried all the options yet and I'm still unsure on the raven. Has anyone used these w/ DC well? They seem to have too many "ifs" for things going wrong. Maybe jps are really the only way to go

[TheHarrower]

Death Company have been my favorite unit forever, but now with the kibash on vehicles without assault ramps, I sadly haven't been taking them. Storm Raven or Drop Pod are certainly the most effective way to get them into close combat. Anything else takes too much fiddling around or costs too many points.

 

...ds mishap for scattering too close to a GK strike squad...

 

You can't mishap in a Drop Pod unless you end up off the table.

[Sviox]

Let's look at this from the point of synergies, shall we? My 2 cents...

 

DC with Jump Packs:

-Probably moves with your main army as a 'hammer', not alone

-Lemartes is a must

-Expensive, to be used in small units (3-5 preferably) with only a few upgrades like a single PF/TH (Lemmy has power maul so punch on initiative step is covered) and maybe an IP

-I'd say use this option if your army does not contain many/any priests, i.e. in case your army core is heavy on tacticals (mech) and/or terminators

-Don't bother in jump infantry heavy lists relying on priests, SG is a better option

 

DC in a rhino:

-Relative protection and delivery speed in the first game turn(s)

-Has to wait a turn after disembark before able to charge

-Chaplain is optional

-Optimal unit size is a filled rhino (10 or 9+chaplain), with some shooting power (2+ bolters due to fire points, and maybe some IP) and 1 PF/TH

-Good in tank&mech lists where most of the army is transported in the beginning, provides some target saturation

 

DC in a land raider / storm raven

-Good protection and charge after disembark

-Expensive as hell

-Can branch from your main advance elements for a specific target and kill it efficiently on their own

-Optimal unit size around 8+, without jump packs (rely on the transport) and 1+ PW and 1 PF/TH, no reason for ranged extras

-Good in lists of 2000+ pts games, works good with other armor

 

DC in a pod

-First turn drop right where you need it, second turn charge

-Quite cheap

-Support units may be far off, takes a lot of fire

-Used to mess with the meta of your opponent, allows your other elements to advance almost unharmed

-Optimal size of 10, minimal upgrades (maybe a single PF/TH for handling incoming charges) and 3+ bolters for firepower

-Good in lists with main element comprising of RAS units, priests and other jumpers (and of course works well with other podded elements as well)

[Red Fury]

I think Jump Packs are the best option for the DC now. Go figure they are so damn expensive, maybe Ward had some foresight afterall. Because if they were any cheaper at all, this wouldn't be a discussion.

 

But when it cost 100 points for the Jps on just 5 DC, what is the optimal size? I think at 5 DC the JPs are an easy best choice, but what about at 6-7-8. At 10 DC, the Land Raider or Storm Raven are nearly free so you might as well take the assault vehicle.

 

The biggest problem with the Raven is that it always starts in reserves, but it has so much potential just because its a flyer. The Land Raider is a bit predictable and even easier to stop in 6th, but still the toughest thing around.

 

As for Rhinos and drop pods, yeah they are cheap, but I think I'd rather go with a smaller DC with JPs over one of them every time.

[Remtek]

Drop pod or LRR. (boltguns if drop pod and sword/pistol if lrr) Rhino can work, but somewhat risky. You dont wanna force a Stormraven to hover mode to early and JP's are way to pricy, maybe 5 can work, but you need a very terrain heavy board then.

 

Land raiders are one of the few veichles that received a buff in 6th ed (less stuns, and moves further), but i'm partial to drop pod. With relentless and overwatch's they are so cheap at 20 points each.

[Xenith]

Jump pack DC look badass. That is the main reason to use them.

 

I used 8xJPDC, 2 fists, Lemartes in pretty much every game in 5th. They were absolutely brutal. The pack is a dream for hiding behind a building and getting the jump on the opponent. Of all units, DC need to be mobile and attacking every turn.

 

On the Lemartes issue: I think he is just as good, but his application has changed. Previously he ate through everything, and was a little too good for his points. Now he removes the need for the extra fist in the unit, so Ill be swapping it for an axe or two.

 

The main thing that I found killed my DC was the 30man boyz mob with hidden klaw. Now Lemmy can challenge and beat the hell out of the klaw nob.

 

Admittedly, DC have not lost a lot of ground vs GK, as we no longer go before them in combat with FC.

[Remtek]

I'm trying to get mine ready for the next gathering, though yeah JP models are way cooler :). Those backups are not very masculine.

 

Maybe a unit of with 5 with JP could work, would be easier to LoS 5 until they are in assault range. 10 would just be a walking target. With premeasuring moving them behind cover, but within 30" of the fray and they should have a pretty reliable 18 inch threat range 12+6.

 

A few touchups, painting packs and i'm good to go!

http://www.remtek.be/dc1.png

[skrikspya]

I use 6 DC, 2pf, rest CCW/bp and reclusiarch with infernus pistol in a LRR in my armoured company. Works very well indeed. Takes out pretty much everything even though it costs quite a bit of points.

[SevenExxes]

I don't see how you can look past the Stormraven. Even at 1500 points I had 2 in a list and blasted things off the table before I unloaded the cargo.

Unfortunately one had a real life mishap and smashed on the floor so now I'm using as terrain and objectives.

[Killax]

Due to the new vechicles rules, the best transport for them would be a Drop Pod, Landraider or Stormraven.

 

Otherwise the chances are to big that you will have them walking along.

 

Jump Packs are an option on the model, but actually arn't. The costs that come with 6-8 DC with jumppacks is not worth it's points and never will be with the cheaper options of a Drop Pod.

 

Cheers,

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Honestly, at 1500pts I think the only plausible way to take DC is Bolter DC in a Pod.

 

I personally swear by 8 DC (TH and PA) in a Land Raider Redeemer but even at 2,000pts it's a heavy investment and you kind of have to build your list around them.

[Shaggy12009]

With the new hammer of wrath rules, you can use less models on the charge with jump packs than without. Not sure exactly how the math works out so it's not an even swap, but it's something to consider.

[Sviox]

I don't see how you can look past the Stormraven. Even at 1500 points I had 2 in a list and blasted things off the table before I unloaded the cargo.

Unfortunately one had a real life mishap and smashed on the floor so now I'm using as terrain and objectives.

 

True, 1500pts list should have an aircraft at 6ed. I just wouldn't put DC in it or else it will drop down the turn it enters. At that low points (i.e. without target saturation in that category, unless you field multiple..) I would put a cheap RAS inside the SR and force the opponent to ignore either the SR or the DC so that all my eggs aren't in the same basket.

[MadMek83]

Out of my currently 32 Death Company Members (12 on foot wity various CCW's) and 20 on Jump Packs, I have considered now in 6th to get few more bpoxes of DC and make Bolter toting nutter bro's. My enemy usually is insanely scared when ever DC appears but my fave startegies (when playing Death Company heavy) is Drop podding squad with Deepstriking my insanely expensive 20 DC JP lead by Astorath could benefit more of the Bolter toting variants.

 

But Generally Astorath either Deepstriking or if I field 20 marines its better actually run them of in table already as its pain in the neck starting to deploy 20 marines around astorath after initial DS. Its fun to play with 10+ DC JP's throwing over 5+ attacks, re-rolling with astorath and flooding enemy into WS5 str 5 attacks in first strike. Some already call my DC: The Magic Squad: Now you see enemy unit! *BOOF and here comes my DC* : Now you don't see enemy unit. Its insanely expensive 35P models without any other upgrades. Easily thrown a price of a rhino for single upgraded Death Company member.That is quite insane price.

 

Its just worth IMHO my look to see DC tear enemy unit apart then doing another unit in (multiple assault goodness even with disorientated slightly hinders them) the look on opponents with first strike combining hammer of wrath + Rage bonus to 3 base attacks for initial first strike is just brutal.

 

But I am notoriously insane person who loves Colonel Hannibals tactics: There's no kill like overkill!

 

But seriously. One the more cost effective is 6-8DC on jump packs or Drop podded 10 footslogging DC with bolters in a pod lead by a chappy with a power fist. Still fearsome. But I feel like even fluffy wise the CCW + Pistol marines are the flavour, 6th edition has made humble bolter toting DC also very viable option. Rhino is generally a free kill point or first blood for your enemy depending on ground. Drop pod, storm raven or Land raiders are much better for DC as they are bit harder to kill.