DavidKits Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I have recently come to the idea for a unit of Chaos bikers for my alpha legion army I am working on. I have heard numrous times that the Alpha Legion are reknown(sp) to infiltrate Space Marine chapters in the field. My idea is that I recently picked up the Dark Vengeance(sp) bos starter set and I wanted to use the Ravenwing Bikers with a few extra Ravenwing bikers to make a full unit of 5 for my Alpha Legionnaires. I know I have heard that Bikers for the chaos space marine are the best for point cost to worth but whatever I'm doing this how I want too. My problem that poses to me and I wish to ask the followers of the Hydra and if need be anyone else playing chaos in general I suppose is how good are the Alpha Legionnaire's at Infiltrating can they make perfect copies or are there flaws... that would be noticed only when up close and personal? I ask you all because I am planning to paint the bikers to look just like Ravenwing but have sections of the bike armour and even the marine armour themselves have that scale effect I am painting on the rest of the force, just in the black and greys of the Ravenwing colors as if to show that even though they look RW they still can tie in with the rest of the force somehow. please give me your thoughts and advise as I personally just don't know... I haven't read any books released about how well they can infiltrate chapters. Sincerely David p.s. thank you once more for your time and any help that can be lent. *bows to you all* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Maybe someone can link it as I don't know who did it or where it is on this forum but someone did some cool AL "Ultramarines" that had subtle scales on the leg armor as I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 +++SPOILER ALERT+++ in the book Deliverance Lost, The Alpha Legion infiltrates the Raven Guard after the Dropsite Massacre. They do a fairly good job at it, not getting discovered until its almost to late. If i were you, i would check it out, to understand how they do it. But in essence, its possible, but the Ravenwing are part of the Dark Angels, and their level of scrutiny (to prevent another Fallen episode) is quite a bit higher then the Beginning-Heresy Raven Guard (as that signaled the possiblity of traitor marines.. before everybody though it was impossible). Also note that the AL that infiltrated the RG, did so under the leadership of Omegon, who is not some random sergeant, he is a Primarch, and thus knows his stuff. This, and the increased security of both post-heresy chapters and DA security, it gets quite hard :) So you have to flesh it out proper, imo. But its possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Personally I do not see the Alpha Legion infiltrating space marines all that often as it would be extremely difficult, and of they did it would only be one or two operatives, maybe replacing an apothorcary in order to lay the seeds or corruption in recruits ect. The main problem with this it would take ages to gather the intelligence to create a profile, and to isololate the target, and find the time to perfectly copy him. The Dark Angels are a secretive and guarded organisation, and the Ravenwing more so, so it will be difficult to infiltrate and remain hidden. Alternatively it would be easier to just don the armour of the Ravenwing. Of course, against loyal Space Marines, this deception probably won't last long, however in the middle of battle those few sections could prove the diffrence between winning and losing. I believe that's why the shout 'for the emperor' and the like, to confuse in order to gain an advantage. That's how I see thing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I agree with the above, as i said earlier. Altough i do have to mention. They did it before, and there is nothing stopping them from doing it again. Most of the AL missions are after all long planned. I do think its better if you make a Codex DIY, or even a DA DIY, instead of actualy ravenwing. Makes it slightly more plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 You know, I could see a real challenge in the Alpha Legion infiltrating the Dark Angels based on the fluff. In Deliverance Lost, the Alphas infiltrate by killing Raven Guard units and eating their brains to get their memories. Dark Angels, OTOH, are all about protecting their secrets. Given the fact every Marine had the ability to eat people for their memories, I can't help but think they would put some kind of countermeasure in place to prevent it from happening to them. It would seem kind of silly not to. So, the Alphas could do it, but it's hard to imagine them infiltrating the same way they did with other legions. More likely, they would be limited to painting up their arms and armor to resemble the target, and their work would be imperfect at best. So yeah, an imperfect paint job would probably be called for here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PipX Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 It need not necessarily be direct Alpha Legion infiltrators. In at least one example (Blurb in a codex and a full short story) a Chapter has been infiltrated by their own. The populace that the chapter recruited from were brainwashed by subliminal graffitis/text/etc with a subliminal trigger, and over time scouts became Marines and these brainwashed marines were all over the Chapter structure. Cue giving the trigger and the chapter was destroyed. Since the Dark Angels are a chapter that recruit from multiple worlds, their is a conceivable point of entry there, since they cannot maintain a presence on all recruiting worlds, and over time some brainwashed marines could slip in. You could also argue that some of the DA successors may not be as stringent as the main parent chapter, and could have direct infiltrators there over time. You could also go with operatives trained from birth to be candidates for scouts, the Alpha Legion makes use of all tools it has available, not just marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidKits Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 *nods* thank you all of your imput it does give me a bit to think of. I would imagine that with how I was doing up the unit it would be more like a sudden event in the middle of an already ongoing battle. the Guard are battling chaos Dark Angels come in to give a hand after all chaos could give em ideas towards fallen and it ends up that this unit i'm painting up was a case of the Legion trying to sow more confusion by repainting there armour to look like the Ravenwing and cause confusion in the guard lines by attacking them from time to time to make the already strained relationship with the Dark Angels even more so. *waves a hand* but apart from a fluff issue that I can see from alot of the posts obiviously telling me this isn't long term goal I was more curious on how the 'infiltrating marines' would look. as such thanks techsoldaten for the imput on that the 'off colors' and imperfect paint scheme, I would normally lean towards another chapter then one of the big ones for this but as I'm trying to use a bunch of models from out of the DV box set Ravenwing bikers are what i got. Still open to more thoughts and comments cya guys later! *waves* David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PipX Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 If you're main interest is to fool IG or DA allies than I can see no reason why AL repainting their armor/using stolen armor to harass is a simple enough explanation, I would just include subtle markings to hint towards their true allegiance. The only time you might need to have a more lengthy explanation would be for the reason that has already been covered, infiltration of the actual DA chapter. Maybe you could paint the Ravenwing symbols in the blue/green color, since they would be going at such high speeds it wouldn't really be fully noticeable to non augmented humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidKits Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 *nods lightly and rubs my chin* that is an idea pipx. i like that idea i'll put it to mind thank you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 There's the picture of the Alpha Legion as Ultramarines out there that is extremely well done. What's awesome about it is the subtlety of using Ultramarine colors with the UM symbol being corrupted with Hydra imagery and the scales being really faint here and there on the armor. What's so cool about that is that it potentially tricks other players without outright 100% painting in loyalist schemes. They ask, "why are there X chapter in your Chaos force?", then the Hydra heads come into focus and everything gets awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 You mean these? http://www.fybertech.com/4thread/tg_16470798/1317359289305.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 they are extremely well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Unfortunately i don't remember who made them. i know there are lots of pictures over at the serpent's lair...somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Unfortunately i don't remember who made them. i know there are lots of pictures over at the serpent's lair...somewhere...Kaleb Daark iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 You mean these? Those are exactly the models I mean. They're a well circulated example of Alpha Legion done awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'd be wary about having them trying to infiltrate the Ravenwing. I imagine the Dark Angels being such an insular and inward looking organisation would naturally breed a suspicious nature and any "New faces" as t`were would be discovered. As other's have said, if you wanted to theme them around a group of infiltrators who are operating on a world where the Ravenwing are also deployed and simply want to maybe get one past the Dark Angel's guard allies- now that would work. I doubt any standard human would even know where to look for any discrepancies or indeed, wouldn't even think of challenging a marine. My problem with Modelling Alpha Legion infiltrating units is that there is a bit of a disparity between practicality and making the unit look awesome on the tabletop. Practically speaking, any infiltrating unit that has any form of marking on them which would compromise their cover, would be pretty crap. Of course, just painting a ravenwing unit feels a bit of a cop out, like you've just lifted them for another army. Maybe go subtle? Secret little things upon them, like a communication device or hydra embossed communication wafer. Little things that would be noticed were someone to examine the model at detail. Rewarding little modelling gubbins like so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aristeo Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Look up Arkos and his warband The Faithless for some info on the Alpha Legion dealing with the Dark Angels. You could make up your mind after that. As an Alpha Legion player who's been eyeing the DV set, I think you might be better off throwing in a few Chaos bits and making Fallen bikers out of those Ravenwing models. That's just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Unfortunately i don't remember who made them. i know there are lots of pictures over at the serpent's lair...somewhere...Kaleb Daark iirc. Aaaah, yes ofc! How oculd I forget! This is his nice old WIP from the lair: http://z15.invisionfree.com/Alpha_Legion_F...ic=578&st=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidKits Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 thanks guy :ermm: more ideas to add to the mix! *claps and smiles widely* all are valid comments and ideas I'll keep em in mind hopefully... if i can find a way to post pics up online and then add them here to B&C i'll try to show off how my Legionnaires are doing... I won't lie never painted AL before but i do think they are turning out well cheers :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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