Lord Kallozar Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Hi guys, following on from my Chaos Undivided query thread, i was wanting to explore the Chosen Ones of the Chaos armies - Possessed Chaos Space Marines (Chaos Undivided). Now I totally get it and understand the concepts of daemons and possession when it is related to one of the specific gods, for example a Slaanesh Marine will welcome a Slaanesh daemon to possess its body etc etc, but whats the score for Undivided followers? The Word Bearers field and have preference to units upon units of Possessed. They are an Undivided legion and when the Marines become Possessed Marines they remain Undivided in their beliefs and worship - but how?? If all Daemons are hell spawned from one of the Dark Gods then surely it will be a Khorne daemon or a Tzeentch Daemon or Nurgle Daemon or Slaanesh daemon which will possess the chaos marine, thus surely that marine should then turn to the worship of that God, no?? Burias-Drakshal (sp?) is a Possessed veteren who still worships/follows Undivided even when in his daemon state, but how so if (for example) a Nurgle daemon has possessed him, so in his daemon form Burias-Drakshal should be a Nurgle worshipper?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Maybe they are possessed by Furies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfGuardVortek Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 There are a lot more daemons that exist in the fluff then those that have entries in the table top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 To be honest, you sort of answered your own question. Burias is an Undivided follwer. And yet in Dark Disciple, I believe is the first time that we actually see it shown that Drak'shal is a Slaanesh daemon. And I personally believe that every Possessed relationship follows this as a model. Whoever is in control determines the nature of the relationship. Don't know if that helps any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 In the Dark Heresy series there are quite a few examples of warp predators and gribblies that are unaligned . . . you could go with furies, but they sorta suck in the hierarchy of warp-beings. It is like making a pact with the daemonic equivalent of a hobo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Pretty sure there are a lot of lesser gods who don't get any airtime, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 ADB explained this pretty well. The way he explains it, there is no undivided any longer. They're all just extensions of the Gods to one degree or another. Some may have become more separate from their God but they still originate from them. Check out the quote. Chaos Undivided is a very confusing concept, especially due to the way one particular edition made it a little "gamey" and changed the lore quite a lot. That was in a very expansionist phase of the hobby, so a lot of players came into 40K seeing it as the truth, but there's a pretty simple way to view the Warp in moments like this. The Four Powers are Chaos. There's no Chaos Undivided, and references to Undivided as a "thing" are rarer and rarer. No more Mark of Chaos Undivided, for example. No more references to daemons of Chaos Undivided (not that there were many, anyway). The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on. The worship of Chaos Undivided is the worship of Chaos as a concept, made manifest in the presence of the pantheon. It's the worship of all four gods equally, or the ignorance of all of them, not realising that they're The Truth of the warp. They can say they pray to the concept of Chaos itself, and that's all fine and good. But Chaos, in real terms, is the Four Gods and everything that comes from them. In this example, a follower of Chaos Undivided will still be getting mutations and blessings from the Four Gods (or their lesser manifestations) he'll just view it in different terms. The pantheon blesses him, or the warp itself reaches out to exalt him. It's not as simple as just seeing your left arm become a tentacle and going "Hmm, this makes me cost 3 more points and is clearly from Slaanesh." As editions roll out, and as Black Library gets edited tighter with delicious, beloved fact-checkers, a lot of year 2000-style / 3rd-Ed holdovers seem to be mentioned less and less, or simply never again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 There are a lot more daemons that exist in the fluff then those that have entries in the table top. You accidentally paraphrased the bard which was the quote I intended to use ...... There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Saa ....or something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfGuardVortek Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 There are a lot more daemons that exist in the fluff then those that have entries in the table top. You accidentally paraphrased the bard which was the quote I intended to use ...... There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Saa ....or something like that Wow, that is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PipX Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think you could go either way. Currently it seems the idea is that all daemons stem from one of the 4 Powers. Though, Furies are described as being from people who couldn't decide on a God and are Undivided. You could see it as yes, the daemon has to be coaxed from one of the Gods but it is ultimately the intent of the person who binds them as to their end use. Or, their could be some overlap for the gods where they have similar interests (Think para- and quasi-elementals) and the daemons are representative of several facets of emotion and belief. For myself, I would go with the daemons are aligned, but it is the binder who directs them. That would give options for different possessed conversions within one squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 All of Chaos being derived from one of the "Big Four" is a little too boring an explanation for me. I've always preferred the idea that the Big Four were a convenient summary of Chaos rather than the actual alpha and omega of it. I take inspiration more from the Fantasy side of the house in this respect, I guess, and maybe older versions of fluff. I still believe in Malal, and I prefer to believe in other gods, major as well as minor, that aren't simply masks of the Big Four, but that the Big Four are extremely dominant. Call me crazy, or a fool, or a heretic, or absolutely mad, but there it is. A Hell with only four pits isn't interesting enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Roxtar Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think you could go either way. Currently it seems the idea is that all daemons stem from one of the 4 Powers. Though, Furies are described as being from people who couldn't decide on a God and are Undivided. You could see it as yes, the daemon has to be coaxed from one of the Gods but it is ultimately the intent of the person who binds them as to their end use. Or, their could be some overlap for the gods where they have similar interests (Think para- and quasi-elementals) and the daemons are representative of several facets of emotion and belief. For myself, I would go with the daemons are aligned, but it is the binder who directs them. That would give options for different possessed conversions within one squad. ^^ This. I imagine facing a chaos army with demons spawning all over the place ,all diferent , all unique visons of hell some alike cos theyre following some higher power but a lot of lesser spontaneous manifestations of emotions and fears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 If all Daemons are hell spawned from one of the Dark Gods then surely it will be a Khorne daemon or a Tzeentch Daemon or Nurgle Daemon or Slaanesh daemon which will possess the chaos marine... You forget that those are the Greater gods. There are countless minor chaos gods also. Worshipping chaos as a concept, your marines could be possessed by all, some or none of the majors. It's chaos, anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 According to A D-B there are only the four great gods, and this is also the view presented by GW IP. Furies are somewhat of an odd leftover from earlier editions, as is the entire concept of 'Chaos Undivided' as something other than simply worshipping all the four Gods. That seems to be the official version, and I have argued with A D-B on the merits of this setup of the chaos gods as opposed to the view presented earlier, especially during 3ed. To put it short, I much prefer the more chaotic veiw of days past, when the big four were just 'the big four', not not 'the only four'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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