Newbie questions

[Kaptejn]

Hey all!

 

I decided to pick up warhammer. I immediately decided to pick up blood angels.

 

I picked up the BA battleforce the other day ( Tactical Squad, an Assault Squad, a Death Company Squad and a Rhino dedicated transport vehicle).

 

So far i got some questions that i hope you lot could answer :D

 

What would a good starter HQ be?

 

Is techmarine viable? (i like the idea of him behind a couple of predators and assault squads)

 

As far as heavy support goes, is it worth fielding a devastator squad or should i stick to armor?

 

 

Bear in mind that i am a complete newb concering tabletop-gaming so please explain in deatails the reasons for whatever your answer is :P

 

Thanks in advance!

[Jorre]

Blood Angels have some of the coolest IMHO special characters in the game. Dante, Mephiston, Sanguinor etc etc. You can't go wrong with any of them, however if your just starting out I would recommend a simple Librarian in power armour. They are a great cheap starting hq and even when you move on to a bigger army with a bigger hq you can still find space to slot him in as your second HQ.

 

As an IC you can attach him to any squad and cast his psycic powers from relative saftey and the new 6th ed powers really are great for a BA army. I recommend checking out the Divination powers, they really kick ass. I quite often take 2 libbies in bigger games.

 

Also if you are thinking about building a death company I would also reccommend thinking about a Chaplin as your hq as he will give you rerolls to hit and wound, however Chaplin + DC can get quite expensive very quickly and may not be the best spot to be starting out!

 

Good luck!

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I too would echo the call for a Librarian. I personally would not take a Techmarine because they're not too useful in-game and they take up an Elite slot that is likely to be needed (eventually) by another, better unit. That said, at low points levels it's unlikely to be an issue and you should really go with your preferences. Rule of Cool triumphs over everything.

 

As for whether you take a Devastator Squad or more armour, well there's no wrong answer to that one. It comes down to what you prefer; would you rather have a couple tonnes of tank sat back there blasting away or would you rather have a bunch of troopers carrying very big guns?

[Kaptejn]

would you rather have a couple tonnes of tank sat back there blasting away or would you rather have a bunch of troopers carrying very big guns?

 

 

You can't phrase it like that. How am i supposed to chose now? D:

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Ok, well how do you see your army growing? Is it going to be infantry-heavy with a lot of troops on foot/with Jump Packs or will your guys have transport vehicles?

 

If it's the first, go with Devastators. If the second, get a tank. Or you could always just get both...

[Taranis]

would you rather have a couple tonnes of tank sat back there blasting away or would you rather have a bunch of troopers carrying very big guns?

 

 

You can't phrase it like that. How am i supposed to chose now? D:

Most armies is constructed with weapons for tough targets(armour) if you choose no vehicles their expensive guns are wasted on infantry, if you choose many vehicles you might overwhelm his ability to deal with it and if you bring very few he has targets appropriate for his guns.

Generally with the new rules vehicles are more vulnerable. That's a part of army construction.

 

What Res Ipsa Loquit is saying is what do you prefer? You must like what you field and build your army to compensate for potential weaknesses.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Yeah, that's basically it. If you go with armour you have to really go for it. To be successful with armour it needs to be the focus of your force.

[Kaptejn]

would you rather have a couple tonnes of tank sat back there blasting away or would you rather have a bunch of troopers carrying very big guns?

 

 

You can't phrase it like that. How am i supposed to chose now? D:

Most armies is constructed with weapons for tough targets(armour) if you choose no vehicles their expensive guns are wasted on infantry, if you choose many vehicles you might overwhelm his ability to deal with it and if you bring very few he has targets appropriate for his guns.

Generally with the new rules vehicles are more vulnerable. That's a part of army construction.

 

What Res Ipsa Loquit is saying is what do you prefer? You must like what you field and build your army to compensate for potential weaknesses.

 

 

Can you elaborate on the focus on my force thingy? ;)

[Sixestohit]

Imagine your force, 2 years down the line, you've spent £5300000 on it and have everything you want. It's there on your shelf, waiting to come out to play next time you have a game. What do you see?

 

Do you see:

 

A: Hundreds of mini dudes all on foot, ready to charge to the enemy, with a couple of tanks in support and some transports.

 

B: Loads of armour, rolling on towards the enemy to crush it beneath tracks, with a few squads of guys running along side in support.

 

C: A mixture of both the above. With transports for every squad.

 

D: Tyrannids as the new dex just came out and was loads better than anything else on the table

 

Ignore D please ;)

 

Essentially we want to know what you envisage your army being, and from there we can all help you :woot:

 

James.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Or, if that all seems a bit overwhelming right now, you could just buy a few bits and see what works for you. Ebay is a wonderful tool. I got just over 5500pts of Blood Angels for a little under $600, all in

[Ushtarador]

I also suggest planning a first 1500pts. army so you can actually play some games :) Then see which elements you like and which you don't and add elite squads gradually.

 

Build a hybrid list with both tanks and infantry for 1500pts and then see which you like more. Put in a librarian, some jump infantry, at least 1 sanguinary priest and some baal predators, dreads assault bikes and death company.

[kemd12812baby]

I would have to second what Ushtarador has to say. As I started out a Space Wolf player I am looking to fill out every combo formation I can. But with my Blood Angles I am looking to start out very small and getting only 500pts, 1 Librarian and 15 Assault Marines with Jump Packs. I guess what I am trying to say is get one of each type of unit to fill your Force Organization Chart and then fill in from there. You will see in the games that you play which units will work best and in what cases. You will see where you have need to have additional strength or just lots of lead down range (ie shots fired).

[Shaggy12009]

Ok we're getting away from the core of the question here. Other than the looks cool factor, what do you want? As a new player, I understand what you're getting at. I'm guessing "I want something effective but I don't know what that is" just about covered it.

 

There's a couple rules I use when building any army.

1) have 3-4 scoring units

2) have a close combat beast of a unit

3) something to take out tanks

4) an alternitave method for taking out tanks

5) bring a "tough nut" unit that's seriously hard to kill

6) an hq that adds to the army as a whole

7) if you're going to have armor, go big

8) all units work as a cohiseve whole

 

Most armies I have follow all the rules unles the codex doesn't offer a viable option. For example, guard don't really have a close combat beast unit. I understand you may not know what fits in each category yet but that's the fun of the game. You thought your unit would fill the close combat beast role but you play it and they eat it as often as they kill. Maybe you should try something else for that.

 

Just to give you an idea of what I'm getting at here, I'll give you my current BA list as it fits these rules, but this is by no means the only answer

1) 10 assualt marines combat squaded and 2 sanguinary guard with Dante

2) furioso dread with blood talons

3) 2 multi melta attack bikes

4) 2 melta guns on the assualt marines/ 2 storm ravens

5) 2 storm ravens/ 2 sanguinary guard

6) Dante adding tactical precision to a squad with 2 melta guns and making sanguinary guard into troops

7) I broke this rule. I only have 1 Baal and 1 dred that falls into this category

8) no unit footslogging accross the board. Everything is fast response and pretty nasty on close range

 

I could ramble on like this for hours but I think that's enough to get the idea. Hope it helps.

[Taranis]

Or, if that all seems a bit overwhelming right now, you could just buy a few bits and see what works for you. Ebay is a wonderful tool. I got just over 5500pts of Blood Angels for a little under $600, all in

 

Most of mine too....

[DominicJ]

Just a suggestion

 

The battleforce can just as easily make 10 assault marines and ten bolter DC in a rhino...

[Killax]

Just a suggestion

 

The battleforce can just as easily make 10 assault marines and ten bolter DC in a rhino...

 

Yep, the Battleforce is a great start!

 

I just recently went and started a BA army to, list will be up soon. Though I have quite some years with Warhammer allready I roughly wanted this:

 

1 Badass HQ (most reason I play BA anyway) Mephi/Dante/Tycho

3x 10 RAS

2x Baal Pred

2x 2 AS Bikers

3x Vindi

 

Just a sketch.

 

I wanted to start with this because I like the assault/siege theme it has and combines support with speed, something, in my eyes, BA are the best in.

 

Somethings you really have to remember are:

- Do NOT break your army in to many small deepstriking pieces, 1 unit is more than enough preferable combat squaded, chances are big you'll be shot down into small pieces and lose your whole army in that order because of this.

- When you want to use amour go with the rule of 3, where 3 are the really minimal ammount of vechicles (excluding flyers do to the difficult to hit rule).

- BA are best in moving in close fast, in 6th this has more downsides than it had in 5th.

 

Not to break your hopes but for tournament play vanilla marines are often an easier start than BA are.

 

Cheers and have fun building and gaming!

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I'll tell you what I wish someone had told me when I was getting started 7 years ago.

 

Don't spend any more money until you learn to play the game. Locate a friendly player who has more than one army-- these guys are very common. One of his armies will be some sort of Space Marine, almost guaranteed. Ask him politely that when he comes in to play if he could bring extra models so that you can playtest different things borrowing some models.

 

Read this forum, and listen to what players have to say. Read battle reports, and discussions about what units are most commonly talked about.

 

Once you learn to play, you can pick what you want to buy. This will save you hundreds of dollars. Trust me.

[DominicJ]

I disagree with cag on this.

 

Obviously, it depends on your budget, but you will get a lot more out of the game if you have more models.

 

Apocalypse games would be better if guard players had an infantry division rather than a company.

 

I started all assault, am currently playing all tactical, and am writing a 'light cavalry' list, with bikes, speeders, jumpers and ravens

[Killax]

CAG and Dominic, it both depends on what HIS goal is.

 

You want to go and play tournaments? - Make a list then buy.

Note: most players don't start here unless they are familiar with Warhammer/Wargaming in some way.

 

You want to go and play with friends? - Buy cool stuff.

Most begin to learn and play here, yes it can be expensive, but if you didn't want to spend money on plastic soldiers then what are you doing on this forum anyway?

 

Again have fun in playing, modeling and painting.

 

Cheers,

[huntingbane]

I personally would choose a one that you like the look of then you get the codex and you look at the specialites and you can decide which one you want. =)

 

 

Go the blood angels :)

[Kaptejn]

Wow. First of all; thank you all for responses.

 

I think i like the idea of lawning oponents down with vehicles the most.

And the most badass unit in the w40k-universe is by far the dreadnoght.

 

So far my army consists of the BA battleforce and a dreadnought. If i decide to rely heavily on armor, would the techmarine

Be a good elite to field (i really love the feeling about that unit and would really like to use him)

 

Also, since i havent assembled my dc yet. Jetpacks or not? How viable is the jetpack in combat?

 

As always i am really grateful for any info/tips/pointers ^_^

[ServoBadger]

Hi, I'm far from an expert, but here are my thoughts:

 

If you like Dreadnoughts, Blood Angels is a good army to choose, because you can take lots! Furiosos in your Elite slots and standard Dreadnoughts in your Heavy Support, with Death Company Dreads as troops!

 

I actually have an ancient Techmarine with a Jump Pack from the old Blood Angels Honour Guard boxed set that I've never used, because I've always found other things to fill my Elite slots (Sanguinary Priests, Sanguinary Guard and Furiosos, for me), however you've made me quite tempted to field all my Dreadnoughts (I've got one of the old metal Furiosos, a DC Dread, a standard Dread and one that I can use as either a standard or Furioso) together with the Techmarine bouncing around trying to repair them, just to see what happens. Should be fun if nothing else!

 

Jump Pack Death Company are good, I assembled ten that way when the current Codex was released, but they're very expensive in points terms. I've just bought a Battleforce and I'll be assembling ten with Bolters on foot to see how they work out, with the changes to Rage in the current rules I think they might work well. I'm going to have them carried in my Stormraven, but they could work well in the Battleforce's Rhino, at least to start with!

[teeef]

You seem keen on a Techmarine so I really suggest listening to your heart. You are not yet a tournament player so you want to have your army be you. The first thing you can expect to hear is some punk at the gaming store say, "your ________ isn't über." That is why I said punk because just like the internet there is always one of those guys. Make a note of him and avoid playing him in the future unless you like being talked at. Most of the people you meet and want to play are looking for a good time and you should be too.

 

The key deal with a Techmarine is that he does not have the "Independent Character" Special Rule. So he cannot join a squad. He can hook up with vehicles and walkers for repairs but he is a lone target. You don't have mobility (no dedicated transport and taking a jump pack you lose the servo harness). So he won't serve you well for Assault Dreads but could hang with two AC LC-sponson Predators.

 

To me the the Techmarine's best use is in a Techmarine/Servitor Squad and his value is to make him your fire base.

 

When you set up terrain you want to focus on placing buildings/ruins/terrain for your fire base so when you deploy, your Techmarine can bolster defenses. In objective games get that objective around your bolstered defenses or in a spot where you can shoot the heck out of anything that tries to get at it. Place other objectives where you can lay down fire.

 

So Start with the basics:

 

Techmarine (80 pts)

1 Techmarine, 2 Servitor Unit Servo Arms (on a roll of 3+ you repair or fix weapon destroyed)

 

Then you have to decide on the fire base.

 

Option A:

Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (236 pts)

6 man Devastator Squad, Missile Launcher x4; plain Sergeant Signum

1 Razorback; Twin-Linked Lascannon

 

This is a great unit for two story structures as you can put three marines on one floor and three on the other. Template weapons have to choose floors so you can cut those hits in half. Remember to put the Sarge and the extra bolt gun marine closest to the enemy so they can die first. Put the techmarine and his servitors behind the razor and position the razor so it gets line of site while at least 25+% is obscured for the save. Now if you can find a spot in the ruins or terrain where the entire front of the vehicle is covered but the razor turret is above and has line of site you've got gold. 3+ cover and LoS is from the weapon. 4 Missile Launchers can drop the krak or the frag hurt and the T-L LC can drop a vehicle too. Don't forget the Sarge's signum gives one Missile a BS 5. The techmarine has some punch so he can defend the Razor. Note: Always move the vehicle a bit, turn or pivot go forward or backward a fraction of an inch. Rules state if it's moving it has Weapons Skill 1 and you need that.

Option B1:

Troops: Scout Squad (237 pts)

5 Scouts (Camo Cloaks; Sniper Rifles)

1 Scouts (Camo Cloaks; Missile Launcher)

1 Sergeant (Infantry (Camo Cloaks; Melta Bombs; Sniper Rifle)

1 Whirlwind (Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter)

 

This unit is scoring troops and with bolstered defenses and camo cloaks it is tough to kill. The Sarge has to have a melta bomb so he can help try to stop assaults by dreads and stuff on the Whirlie too. Put the techmarine and his servitors behind the Whirlwind and position the Whirlie so it gets line of site while at least 25+% is obscured for the save. Find a spot in the ruins or terrain where the entire front of the vehicle is covered but the missle turret is above and has line of site and again, you've got gold. 3+ cover and LoS is from the weapon. 1 Missile Launcher and six snipers can do some damage but the goal here is to survive incoming with your butt on an objective. Also six snipers not five or four... math-hammer says three hits and every other turn a 6 for a rending shot. For my daughter that's 4-5 hits and 2-3 rends every turn...for me it's a hit and a wound occasionally. I will never recommend plasma :) or math-hammer.

 

Option B2:

Troops: Scout Squad (272 pts)

5 Scouts (Camo Cloaks; Sniper Rifles)

1 Scouts (Camo Cloaks; Missile Launcher)

1 Sergeant (Infantry (Camo Cloaks; Melta Bombs; Sniper Rifle)

1 Vindicator (Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter)

 

This unit is scoring troops and with bolstered defenses and camo cloaks it is also tough to kill. It is for objective sitting and the shorter range of the vindicator is made up for by the fact that they have to come to it to get to the objective.

 

Option C:

Heavy Support: (280 pts)

Dreadnought; ; (Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Lascannon; Missile Launcher)

Dreadnought; (Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Lascannon; Missile Launcher)

 

This unit can drop some hurt but the key is to find the terrain to give them obscurred. Put the techmarine and his servitors where he can advance to contact either Dread. He will be moving through terrain so he needs to be less than two inches away from either dread, rolling a one will not actually get you the more than one you need to make contact according to the rules if you are the required 1 inch away. It gets you to a zero-point which is not contact.

 

Option D:

Heavy Support: (255 pts)

Vindicator; (Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter)

1 Whirlwind (Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter)

 

Find the terrain to give them obscurred. Put the techmarine and his servitors where he can advance to contact either vehicle. Also, you can arrange the vehicles so the Vindie obscures the Whirlie.

 

Note: Pintle-mounted Storm Bolters help with Weapon Destroyed results as you have a 33% chance it will be the Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter and not the demolisher cannon on the Vindie and a 50% chance it will be the Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter and not the Multiple Missile Launcher on the Whirie.

 

Option Z:

I must haz assault! take the Techmarine and add five servitors (125 pts.) – those servitors are what is referred to as ablative wounds so keep them in front of the techmarine so they get dead first. Try to hide the group behind the vehicles or walkers and try to keep up.

 

Also remember, if the enemy is shooting at your 80+ point techmarine unit they are not shooting your 140 point dread.

 

My favorite is Option B2. You can add a one or two more servitors, or a servo-harness for a total that is only 25% of a 1500 point army.

 

But it is your BA Army so you tweak and have fun.

[Kaptejn]

Never really pondered over the fact that the techmarine isnt IC. Hmmz...

Is there some more or less universal rule when fielding a BA army? Like a type of unit that everyone ALWAYS fields?

Truth be told i`m not overly excited about scout squads; are they a must-have?

[teeef]

Never really pondered over the fact that the techmarine isnt IC. Hmmz...

Is there some more or less universal rule when fielding a BA army? Like a type of unit that everyone ALWAYS fields?

Truth be told i`m not overly excited about scout squads; are they a must-have?

Well, that is what it is.

 

Scouts are rarely in any list and are almost always, "a few points left and I need one more scoring unit." But they can be awesome in the right situation.

 

The main thing is that there is no rule because where you game is going to be different from where I game. Most people I play enjoy a game so they usually have a couple of lists. If they play me we are usually pretty fluffy and mid-tier. Tabling me in three turns is boring for them and I wouldn't be thrilled either. But every now and then someone shows up for a tournament prep and they want to kill so a hard list is in order. But what is a hard list? If you fight a lot of IG with heavy weapons teams and Tanks you would want list X and if you fight a lot of Terminator-heavy lists you would want list Y.

 

As a noob any power player is going to crush you even if you have a "perfect" list. You will forget to play to the scenario or forget to not use Mephiston's Unleash Rage against his 5-man Long Fangs and regret it. And any power list is weak against some other power list or weak in one of the Missions.

 

So the only universal rule is to have fun. Start with something you like, like Dreads and then work backwards to make them work better by using units that provide Dreads synergy.

 

.