The unloved child... Predator box variants?

[.Torch.]

Haven't been seeing a lot of love for a standard predator with lascannon sponsons. It does double the points cost, but is it more flexible for less? Thoughts?

 

On a side note, it looks pretty fly. :)

[ShinyRhino]

Huh? That is the standard configuration, and has been for a while now. No one around here runs anything BUT auto/las Predators.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah it's good. The points are still fairly cheap for the weapons platform it is, provided you have a bit of target saturation in the army.

[Ming]

I use one...alot. I'd use 2...if I had the extra model.

 

Would be awesome if there would be more variants for generic marines (like 3xautocannon). Blood Angel Preds are just plain cool. Looks like the Dark Angel pred is coming soon...

[VoteForPedro]

I agree with the sentiment expressed above, they seem pretty common to me!

 

Huh? That is the standard configuration, and has been for a while now. No one around here runs anything BUT auto/las Predators.

 

Quite a few Heavy Bolter/ Autocannon Preds around here too. I rarely if ever see tri las though (or the total fail that is twin linked lascannon turret/ heavy bolter sponsons :( )

[Haranin]

AC/LAS is one of the best variants. Nothing wrong with the AC/HB either... it pounds out the dakka; its just uni-focused.

 

AC/LAS can hunt big tanks, pop transports and even become an AA platform.

[DarkGuard]

Haven't been seeing a lot of love for a standard predator with lascannon sponsons. It does double the points cost, but is it more flexible for less? Thoughts?

 

On a side note, it looks pretty fly. :drool:

 

Not been on here recently have you? :P

 

The combi-pred as we call it is one of B+Cs favourite configs, along with the dakka pred. You don't really see anything else, and if we do see one of the other two variants people are very quick to point out their faults and divert them to the combi or dakka pred.

[.Torch.]

Just getting back into 40k. Haha, I can see it all now just joined a local gaming club and they've already straitened it out for me.

 

I'll post a list up later for scrutiny. :)

[Seahawk]

I am pretty much the only person who uses single-purpose predators (ac/hb or all-las) and I really like both. I don't like the ac/las because it's too "diluted" and doesn't do anything that the other two don't do much better. *shrug*

[minigun762]

I am pretty much the only person who uses single-purpose predators (ac/hb or all-las) and I really like both. I don't like the ac/las because it's too "diluted" and doesn't do anything that the other two don't do much better. *shrug*

 

Biggest advantage of AC/HB Predator is the cheap price tag. Fill up your heavy slots for 255 points and you have 6x S7 shots and 18x S5 shots to play with.

[DarkGuard]

I am pretty much the only person who uses single-purpose predators (ac/hb or all-las) and I really like both. I don't like the ac/las because it's too "diluted" and doesn't do anything that the other two don't do much better. *shrug*

 

Biggest advantage of AC/HB Predator is the cheap price tag. Fill up your heavy slots for 255 points and you have 6x S7 shots and 18x S5 shots to play with.

 

Yeah, I believe dakka Preds are run by quite a lot of people. I do believe you are the only person to take tri-las though Seahawk.

[Seahawk]

It's because I had two before they went up 20 points. Their value has been tremendous over the years, and I wouldn't trade them down for any other ranged AT available. In 6th, they simply got better, so yea B).

[evilturkeyofdoom]

I use two Tri-Las and love them.

[Gothical]

Is the tri-Las Predator worth it these days, now that AP2 weapons get a bonus on the damage table? It seems to be the cheapest way to get some reliable Lascannon into the army list, cheaper than 3/4x Lascannon Devastators and more shots for only slightly more than a Twin-Linked Lascannon Dreadnought, and far more efficient than a single Lascannon in a Tactical Squad.

 

I'm still very undecided on my Heavy Support choices, I know I want a Devastator Squad (being a Salamanders player), but the other two slots are still up for grabs (and thus could affect how I arm said Devastators).

 

Mind you, other than the cost, I've not really seen what is wrong with a TL-Las/HB Predator - a reliable mobile anti-tank shot with some anti-infantry clearance weapons for later turns/defence...it is just the price-tag that puts me off the thing (though it does look rather nifty).

[DarkGuard]

I do feel that while not the most efficient use of points, a tri-las Pred is certainly more viable in 6th. Especially with more people running less AV10-11 and more AV12+.

[minigun762]

Mind you, other than the cost, I've not really seen what is wrong with a TL-Las/HB Predator - a reliable mobile anti-tank shot with some anti-infantry clearance weapons for later turns/defence...it is just the price-tag that puts me off the thing (though it does look rather nifty).

 

It used to be great when you could move and shoot everything. Then in 5th it went down hill with defensive weapon's being S4. Now with 6th, I think its gotten a slight bump just because multi shot weapons have improved with regards to snap firing.

[evilturkeyofdoom]

I find that the turret mounted twinlinked lascannon gets better line of sight than the lascannon sponsons do. Thats worth paying points for to me.

 

I like having lascannons - almost every game something gets blown up because it's just that little more reliable. I like having units I can depend on to get a job done.

 

Its not cheap though.

[Gothical]

I do feel that while not the most efficient use of points, a tri-las Pred is certainly more viable in 6th. Especially with more people running less AV10-11 and more AV12+.

 

What is a more efficient long-ranged AT system? The closest I can think of is the Land Raider, though I would hardly say that using one as a gun-boat is efficient. Melta Weaponry on fast-moving vehicles was the staple in 5th, is that still the preferred method of dealing with enemy armour? I never seem to have much luck with Multi-Melta Land Speeders (perhaps because I do not take many, restricting myself to the Salamanders background) as they get blasted out of the air by small-arms fire after either taking out only one of multiple armoured threats, or before they can strike the really "key" target I'm hunting. AC/LC obviously has its benefits, but with the new edition I cannot really see myself wanting to fire an Autocannon at any target I would fire a Lascannon at.

 

It used to be great when you could move and shoot everything. Then in 5th it went down hill with defensive weapon's being S4. Now with 6th, I think its gotten a slight bump just because multi shot weapons have improved with regards to snap firing.

 

I am kind of glad I never made my Predators in 4th Edition, as I would have gone Las/HB. I still don't think I would rate them as amazing vehicles (snap-firing the HBs is irrelevant to most targets you want to point the Lascannon at), but having the duality of anti-tank and anti-infantry does appeal to me - it nets you a cheaper platform than Las/Las to still have some anti-armour shots whilst being far more viable than Auto/Las if the opponent has brought a mostly-infantry force - but perhaps not for the overall cost of the tank.

 

Decisions, decisions!

[Chaeron]

I've enjoyed using AC/Las in past simply because it had anti-tank capabilities, as well as anti-heavy infantry. Reasonably tough and versatile, and it remains to be seen how much I use it in the next edition.

[minigun762]

AC/LC obviously has its benefits, but with the new edition I cannot really see myself wanting to fire an Autocannon at any target I would fire a Lascannon at.

 

In the last edition, ACs held an advantage over LCs when the target was AV10/11. At AV12 they were effectively equal and LC easily won AV13+. Since so much of the game was <AV12, ACs were at least as good if not better then LCs even before factoring in the lower point cost.

 

Now with AP2 meaning more (both for anti armor and anti 2+ saves), the LC should see more use. I have no idea how HP factors into the equation and whether it supports single strong shots or multiple weaker ones.

[Seahawk]

HP don't make a difference if you're kerploded! :D

[DarkGuard]

I do feel that while not the most efficient use of points, a tri-las Pred is certainly more viable in 6th. Especially with more people running less AV10-11 and more AV12+.

 

What is a more efficient long-ranged AT system? The closest I can think of is the Land Raider, though I would hardly say that using one as a gun-boat is efficient.

 

A Land Raider as anti-tank is more inefficient. When I said the tri-las Pred wasn't very efficient, it's because of points cost. Typhoons and combi-preds do similar jobs and are cheaper, hence more efficient.

[Inquisitor Fox]

When I first started (this would be two editions ago I think, 2003ish) one of my roommates at the time ran a TLLC/LC predator with his Night Lords army. It was hideously effective and everyone would somehow look past it when playing against him, I'm not sure why. It had such a rediculous kill count it was scary.

 

If we go by what seems to work in real life, then infantry < tanks < aircraft. This logic would say use a Dakka Predator, and have a Storm Talon as an anti-armor aircraft. Granted I can't really say if this logic translates to standard Space Marine forces, because I play Sisters and Grey Knights, and my Land Raider experience was with my Witch Hunter army where the only way I could get long range anti-tank weaponry was on a tank (Exorcist or Land Raider). Even my Chimera transports were anti-infantry based support for an infantry squad.

 

What I tend to do in general is use armor to fill spots my infantry don't have. If my infantry is mostly anti-infantry based, I try to find platforms to fill anti-vehicle weapons. If my infantry has anti-vehicle covered, then I use vehicles to fill anti-infantry. I don't mind adding a little bit of versatility (say swapping an autocannon for a heavy bolter) but I still want the vehicle in question to have a decided role: anti-infantry or anti-vehicle. Personally I think the name of the game is still Troops... especially now that you can't score in a vehicle. They have to be on the ground, and they have to have them. Vehicles now exist to kill the Troops, then you need a few vehicles to kill the vehicles (unless you're a fan of Dev's or some heavy weapon infantry in cover).

[Gothical]

A Land Raider as anti-tank is more inefficient. When I said the tri-las Pred wasn't very efficient, it's because of points cost. Typhoons and combi-preds do similar jobs and are cheaper, hence more efficient.

 

I know what you were getting at (I phrased my post badly), but I couldn't see an option that was more efficient as I had totally forgotten about Typhoons (I don't field much Fast Attack as it doesn't really fit in with my Chapter).

 

To go back to a point that minigun762 raised earlier, is the "combi-pred" that much more viable in the new edition, given the boost to AP2 and vehicle damage (or is the large points-cost for the turret upgrade simply too much)? As Seahawk says, kerploding vehicles makes Hull Points irrelevant...which might be more important now in light of the Chaos Daemon Engines (and their saves/regeneration)?

 

If we go by what seems to work in real life, then infantry < tanks < aircraft. This logic would say use a Dakka Predator, and have a Storm Talon as an anti-armor aircraft. Granted I can't really say if this logic translates to standard Space Marine forces, because I play Sisters and Grey Knights, and my Land Raider experience was with my Witch Hunter army where the only way I could get long range anti-tank weaponry was on a tank (Exorcist or Land Raider). Even my Chimera transports were anti-infantry based support for an infantry squad.

 

I've not really thought of it like that (which is somewhat odd, as I play Guard too). I'm not too sure the logic wholly applies with Space Marines either - anti-tank weapons are very expensive/inefficient on our infantry (Devastators/Tacticals respectively) which leaves Vehicles (be it walkers, skimmers or tanks) to take on the AT role properly...though the Storm Talon is ideal for taking on enemy armour too (though it is hardly cheap either, not once you've picked a decent AT weapon).

 

What I tend to do in general is use armor to fill spots my infantry don't have. If my infantry is mostly anti-infantry based, I try to find platforms to fill anti-vehicle weapons. If my infantry has anti-vehicle covered, then I use vehicles to fill anti-infantry. I don't mind adding a little bit of versatility (say swapping an autocannon for a heavy bolter) but I still want the vehicle in question to have a decided role: anti-infantry or anti-vehicle. Personally I think the name of the game is still Troops... especially now that you can't score in a vehicle. They have to be on the ground, and they have to have them. Vehicles now exist to kill the Troops, then you need a few vehicles to kill the vehicles (unless you're a fan of Dev's or some heavy weapon infantry in cover).

 

As you say, vehicle-killing-vehicles are still needed, though exactly where the darn things fit in the Space Marine army can be hard to work out (Elites, Fast Attack or Heavy Support all have contenders, with different pros and cons). That is why I find Predators to be a bit tricky to work out - especially if you want some troop-killing-vehicles like Vindicators (as Str10 seems to be very important these days).

[DarkGuard]

A Land Raider as anti-tank is more inefficient. When I said the tri-las Pred wasn't very efficient, it's because of points cost. Typhoons and combi-preds do similar jobs and are cheaper, hence more efficient.

 

I know what you were getting at (I phrased my post badly), but I couldn't see an option that was more efficient as I had totally forgotten about Typhoons (I don't field much Fast Attack as it doesn't really fit in with my Chapter).

 

To go back to a point that minigun762 raised earlier, is the "combi-pred" that much more viable in the new edition, given the boost to AP2 and vehicle damage (or is the large points-cost for the turret upgrade simply too much)? As Seahawk says, kerploding vehicles makes Hull Points irrelevant...which might be more important now in light of the Chaos Daemon Engines (and their saves/regeneration?

 

Well with the bonus to AP2 and regeneration on vehicles I'll give you that tri-las preds may be better choices.