I blame Dark Vengance

[DarkHeretic]

Hi all,

I have been gaming for well over 25 years now and am somewhat old hat around 40k having fielded space wolves and eldar for neaarly all of that time.

 

But i find myself seeking a new challenge and the old armies some what stale after so long.

Yesterday i went into my local GW to exchange out some harlequins that were subject to being failcast and walked out with the Dark Vengance ltd editon box.

 

Many years ago i swore never to play chaos but the dark gods have their ways and i find myself here, with my fiancee most likely taking the reigns of the Dark Angels to compliment her tyranid army.

 

My main problem right now as i sit cleaning up the gorgeous models...(because lets face it for plastics the DV models are some of the best GW have ever produced)...back on track..

My main issue is being torn between 2 paths. Tzeentch and Khorne.

 

Tzeentch on one hand has the thousand sons with their egyptian imagery which has always held appeal, whilst Khorn on the other hand offers a new challenge in terms of painting and play style (more in your face then my Grey Hunter heavy wolves)

 

So i look to you my fellow dark brethen for your thoughts. I have to make use of the DV set and have about a year in which to assemble a mighty force for an event late next year.

[KingDeath]

I suggest Khorne. Berserkers have a very nice FW upgrade set ( as well as a few realy cool looking Khornate daemon engines to acompany them into battle ) while good Tzeentchian stuff is hard to find/ non-existant.

[Feste]

Brother, have you heard the Word of Lorgar? For in it is a path praising both of these two wonderful deities. It is only the heretics and foolish who listen to a single God and close their ears to all others. As a Bearer of the Word you too can learn these things.

[Sception]

My blood runs black, so I can't pass up the chance to recommend Black Legion. Whether you want to go Tzeentch heavy, Khorne heavy, or mix both, the Black Legion has you covered.

 

That said, if you really want to go for Sons or Eaters, that's a tough choice. The Berzerker and Thousand Sons models are really showing their age at this point, and we only have vague rumors of conversion packs some time in the future to hope for a fix. Not too promising.

 

So the fact that Forgeworld has some really nice World Eaters conversion packs for chaos marines and terminators is a strong, strong mark in their favor. Further, berzerkers are a pretty strong troops choice, and are likely to stay pretty decent in the new book, while thousand sons are rather situational and points inefficient, and that isn't likely to change either. Another point in favor of world eaters.

 

On the other hand, if you're going to look to the daemon book for allies, Tzeentch daemons are probably the strongest of the bunch right now. Horrors are reasonably durable, and put out some respectable firepower from the turn they arrive on the table, while flamers and screamers can burn or bite through even terminator armor with ease. Tzeentch heralds have respectable output as well. By comparison, khorne daemons are melee only, which means there's always at least a turn delay for them to do anything after they land. And most of them are slow, so it may take even longer then that for them to get engaged. Plus, the introduction of melee weapon AP means that their hellblades can no longer threaten terminators - unlike the warpfire of tzeentch flamers or the jaws of tzeentch screamers.

 

 

So I guess that's what it comes down to. Better models (if you use FW conversion kits) and a better core unit in your home codex, or access to better allies from the daemon book? In general, I myself would prefer sons to eaters. I like the thousand sons paint scheme more, and find Tzeentch to be a more interesting god, but the lack of quality models for the thousand sons units is a real sticking point.

[DarkHeretic]

Im leaning towards khorne as a primary choice and maybe getting my tzeentchian kicks from an allied project further down the line.

[Brother Nathan]

wait a few weeks, see what the new codex brings and then decide. you might get new stuff then or change your mind based on rules etc so i wouldnt rush into it. also make sure you can enjoy painting which ever one you choose. hating painting the scheme will just kill the army for you never mind how cool the fluff or models...

[Caffeineated Chaos]

Brother, have you heard the Word of Lorgar? For in it is a path praising both of these two wonderful deities. It is only the heretics and foolish who listen to a single God and close their ears to all others. As a Bearer of the Word you too can learn these things.

I concur. I started out full Khornate but then the other gods started pulling at my heartstrings(the blacker ones). I'd always loved the Word bearers color scheme and fluff, they're the one's responsible for corrupting Horus, which to me makes them the true big bads. And finally I read this little piece called First Heretic, and I started making my khornate band more religious, and then read the Word Bearers Omnibus... And now here I am(Still need to change my avatar... oh and @Feste: good plug, just the right splash of melodramatic, superior, preachiness, you do Lorgar proud)

[Feste]

Thanks Caffeineated Chaos, I'm honoured :)

There is after all a reason that the Word Bearers are popping up everywhere, we're the missionary wing of CSM :)

 

One of the things that's drawn me to them is that I've always felt there's an element by which the other CSM legions 'fell' or were trapped by their fates (the exemplar maybe being the Thousand Sons). Conversely, the Word Bearers seem to be exactly where they wanted; Gods to worship, an enemy to fight and eternity in which to do it. Truly the 41st millenium is a blessed time for us.

 

malisteen's advice is excellent, spot on the money, and I definitely agree with Brother Nathan it's hard not recommend leaving it 'till the weekend until we know a little more about the Codex and models. Another reason to wait for the Codex is in case either of the updated Khârn or Ahriman particularly grabs you; Khârn in particular has always been very characterful in his model and rules, while Ahriman is sounding a little beefier than before.

[DarkHeretic]

Brother Nathan your sig looks familiar to me. Would you be a inhabitant of a certain space wolf forum? If so you will know me as the project starting, never finishing WolfLord Alwor.

 

I am open to pursuasion on the future of this still mostly sprue bound set.

However from what i can remember of the word bearers fluff, are they not zealous to the point of sneering at singular god worshiping forces. Which makes it a little hard to include things like beserkers/demon engines etc which are god specific.

 

And just to clarify...i will be having one of thos awesome dragon flyers that have been seen about the internet. I also like the look of a lot of the demon engines that have been leaked and already exist. Maybe its reliving my childhood days of epic and remembering all those great lumbering behemoths.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

Brother Nathan your sig looks familiar to me. Would you be a inhabitant of a certain space wolf forum? If so you will know me as the project starting, never finishing WolfLord Alwor.

 

I am open to pursuasion on the future of this still mostly sprue bound set.

However from what i can remember of the word bearers fluff, are they not zealous to the point of sneering at singular god worshiping forces. Which makes it a little hard to include things like beserkers/demon engines etc which are god specific.

 

And just to clarify...i will be having one of thos awesome dragon flyers that have been seen about the internet. I also like the look of a lot of the demon engines that have been leaked and already exist. Maybe its reliving my childhood days of epic and remembering all those great lumbering behemoths.

Ultimately depends on the Host. Each Host's Dark Apostle is for the most part free to interpret the will of Lorgar as he chooses. Mind it's not so much mono-god worship with them as it would be pantheon worship with patrons. Such a Host's sorcerer's would likely offer prayers to the other gods(even Khorne for the strength to resist enemy psykers), but most of his devotion would go to tzeentch, while their harcore melee assault troops would likely devote most of their worship to khorne or slaanesh, and so on. So long as the DA and the Host as a whole worships undivided I see no issue. Mind the Council of Sicarus may look down upon such a host and they would likely not play a lot of the power games within the legion and be left to muck about with their own things due to this disfavor. But I can see that as a good thing in a way. And even that may not always be the case. Such a Host could prove devastating militarily like their own mini Black Legion, and be so strong and the DA earn so much of the Gods' favor that other DA's would have to aknowledge the host.

[Lord Ferox Heartcleaver]

My suggestion is simple: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

Actually, I'd recommend waiting for the new codex before deciding on a path. The leaks suggest that Khornate forces will one of the better ways to go monogod, but we don't know, say, berserker points costs yet, or any of the many things that will determine viability. Well, besides that we get a solid mark, mount, and icon.

[Muskie]

I think you should create your own warband. There are lots of smaller warbands that if you adopted one, would allow your army to stand out more. There is also less dogma with the smaller warbands as opposed to the Legions. You could also come up with your own back story to justify why your army is assembled the way you want, forging the narrative I believe they are calling it now...

 

How about Brotherhood of Darkness? Black and red looks good. I can seem them worshiping Tzeentch or Khorne.

 

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5229/5840514289_5a82305834.jpg

Brotherhood of Darkness tutorial model by Muskie McKay, on Flickr

[Circus Nurgling]

Honestly the DV set models screamed first Word Bearers to me, and secondly Night Lords, as far as modeling and painting would be concerned.

 

They would make decent Thousand Sons aspiring sorcerors, supplemented with more plainly-armored (or updated warped out armor from the new ed. CSM?) and crest-helmed rubric marines. I can see yellow and blue looking good on those models, but again, as people are saying, might want to wait for the rules to see if they fit your playstyle.

 

Khorne is always a top choice for chaos players, and I doubt it will be any different with the new codex. I can see these models making decent conversions to the blood god.

 

Conversely, I can't see any inspiration at all for the rot god in any of these models save the Hellbrute, and they're quite a bit too extravagant for Alpha Legion player as well. Iron Warriors would be a tough one to pull off with these models, as well.

[Rain]

They really don't look like Khorne models at all to me. The Hellbrute can be, but the others just don't. Khorne has always been marked by bunny ears and chains/skulls and not third eyes or fleshy parts or anything like that. The look tends to be very bulky with beaten brass and rough, hard edges, the DV stuff just looks too organic. The look of the models probably fits Tzeentch better, though obviously not for Rubrics. Overall though I'd say that they look best as Word Bearers or Black Legion, with maybe corrupted Night Lords being alright as well but they would just look off as say World Eaters or Iron Warriors in my opinion.

[Brother Nathan]

Brother Nathan your sig looks familiar to me. Would you be a inhabitant of a certain space wolf forum? If so you will know me as the project starting, never finishing WolfLord Alwor.

 

I am open to pursuasion on the future of this still mostly sprue bound set.

However from what i can remember of the word bearers fluff, are they not zealous to the point of sneering at singular god worshiping forces. Which makes it a little hard to include things like beserkers/demon engines etc which are god specific.

 

And just to clarify...i will be having one of thos awesome dragon flyers that have been seen about the internet. I also like the look of a lot of the demon engines that have been leaked and already exist. Maybe its reliving my childhood days of epic and remembering all those great lumbering behemoths.

 

aye tis i. shall likely be viewing your efforts over there;)

 

and with chaos, you can make most things fit if you really want to. well anything bar a khorninite socceror... take iron warriros, many view them as not being cultist users, till you read the novel where they are used as waves of fodder, which also has them using a greater deamon of khorn, andd a possesed merc. things dont always have fit perfectly with the normal fluff. chaos shoulb be chaotiv and there should be spanners in there often enough to challenge peoples thinking( yea iron warriors dont like mutation and would sooner hack of a claw and replace it with a bionic,still they would likely make use of an extara tenticle if they can use it to reload their bolter whilst they used their other limbs to do something else...

[Ifrit446]

I started off at the same dilemma of being stuck with 2 gods (tzeentch and slaanesh) but then I realized the truth about picking an undivided warband so that you can mix and match/convert to cover whatever it is that you want in the army.

 

As much as I want to try and be a missionary for the Alpha Legion, I feel like this wont work out well =)

 

But I would definitely agree that Word Bearers are a badass choice for mixing the god's paths. If you need help starting with your fluff, I'd recommend the Word Bearer Omnibus because the stories are incredibly well-written and a very good look into what theyre all about.

 

I hope this helps,

-Ifrit446

[Papasmerv]

I thought one of the perks of playing chaos is that you don't have to choose. Take em all. My CSM army was a renegade force that didn't really ally with chaos fluff wise. Then I got those new models and they are obviously in league with something lol. So now I use both. Fluff wise they are just using each other to their mutual benefit even if they don't worship the same thing. Also lets me get a break from a paint scheme.