J!MM!L!C!OUS Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hi Guys, I recently got hold of the Dark vengeance Chaos chaps. Hock damn those models are nice! Anyway I'm deciding what to do with them and I really like the colour scheme of the Alpha Legion. My loose plans (dependant on new 'Dex) for the Army are roughly as follows: - The Dark Vengeance guys, I'll probably use the Chosen Sgt as a Sorcerer, and convert the Hellbrute to a Daemon Prince - Buy a load more shooty cultists - Buy loads of Chaos Daemons to be used as allies. So the bulk of my force would be daemons, with the minority actually being power armour wearing Alpha's. I'd like to know if this is fluffy, as most things I've read on lexi etc suggests that Alpha Legion don't digg daemons or chaos, in contrast to this, Sindri the Sorcerer becomes a host for one in Dawn of War... Please don't just link me to the wiki's - I've already read them :D So... Please tell me the things I should know about the Alpha Legion in regards to Chaos Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J!MM!L!C!OUS Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 C'mon, gotta be some Alpha sage's out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 It can be. Look at Dawn of War, they were Alpha Legion if I'm not mistaken and they were all in with the demons. Also the Hunt for Voldarius had the demon protagonist from the Alpha Legion. I think the Alpha Legion has splintered massively since the Heresy, and some if not all will have fallen to Chaos. I see them as a legion who will try to get any edge, to give them any advantage, and if this means mutation, demon possession then they will do it. There was another piece of background that said that in a battle the Alpha Legion his their mutations until they got into close combat so when they revealed them the enemy was shocked. To me this sums up the legion, doing anything for an edge in combat. They are said not to reside in they eye, but that's not the only way to gain corruption. They still use the warp, they still use sorcerers, and I'm sure they have to enter they eye, and the maelstrom sometimes. My Alphas will be devoid of a lot of of the spikeyness but that's my personal choice. I do plan to add mutations, and posses marines, although in my own way. Also the only reason I'm not using my DV marines for my Alphas is because I have scaled mine up so they are taller, and I don't fancy cutting them up. And lastly it's your models, do what you want with them, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henricus Divis Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 As I recall Alpha Legion use huge numbers of cultists to support the smaller number of power armoured legionnaires. Don't recall their exact stance on demons but given their win with multiple plans of overlapping tactics and stratagems it seems pretty true to the fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 It can probably be safely said that the combined use of hordes of daemons and cultist is more reminiscent of Word Bearer armies. However, there's no hard-fast rule on this; my Word Bearer army is likely to include many Daemon Engines and be lead by a Sorcerer with WarpSmith aides, other than Sorcerer that's pretty Iron Warrior-y. If your Alpha Legion summon Daemons to achieve their ends, that's cool. I believe that in the Codex there's some background about the Night Lords using a massacre at a Officer Academy to summon daemons deep into the Imperium, they're not well known for their love of daemons. Alpha Legion are all about misdirection and sneakiness, if no-one expects you to use daemons well it almost becomes mandatory to do so :) I'm not sure the Horus Heresy series has touched on the Alpha Legion too much. Dan Abnett wrote an excellent book called Legion, but beyond that they remain a bit of a mystery to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henricus Divis Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'm pretty sure that an old IA: Alpha Legion mentions their cults and the WB cults coming into conflict over various schemes and plots each of the legions has. I do agree thought that large amounts of summoned demons is more of a WB tactic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'm pretty sure that an old IA: Alpha Legion mentions their cults and the WB cults coming into conflict over various schemes and plots each of the legions has. I do agree thought that large amounts of summoned demons is more of a WB tactic Nah, it's more of a Legion/Legion conflict about how to work with human cults. Where the AL takes care of them, train them to do meaningful and important things, the WB use them in a suicidal way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henricus Divis Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'm pretty sure that an old IA: Alpha Legion mentions their cults and the WB cults coming into conflict over various schemes and plots each of the legions has. I do agree thought that large amounts of summoned demons is more of a WB tactic Nah, it's more of a Legion/Legion conflict about how to work with human cults. Where the AL takes care of them, train them to do meaningful and important things, the WB use them in a suicidal way. That being the case I apologise for any confusion I may have caused with my inaccuracy :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J!MM!L!C!OUS Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hey everyone, thanks for your replies so far ;) what else can you tell me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 @J!MM!: I just did some serious research on this not too long ago myself, but for different purposes. Dawn of War aside(Most of the fluff community looks at and goes "Ew" anyways. I think it was a decent game.), the Alpha Legion do play with Daemons and Mutations. They aren't like the Word Bearers and go "Hey guys look! I got a new tentacle!" and they aren't like the Night Lords who are summon daemons to use at shock troops while they pick off stragglers. The Alpha Legion uses everything as it fits into their tactics. If it benefits them to have bone spikes that be shot out of their wrists like organic missiles, then they will use it. If it works to their advantage to show that they have eight eyes so three platoons of Guardsmen break ranks and run like little girls, they will show all eight eyes. If it is easier to use a cultist to perform a summoning ritual so some Bloodletters destroy an entrenched bunker that was toting some serious firepower, well you get the gist. Essentially it comes down to fluff and feel/flavor of your army. on how the daemons and cultists fit in, but how you use them is how you use them. The main key is that Alpha Legion always has a tactic. Everyone else only has one when it suits them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hydra dominatus and all that. See, the cool thing about the alpha legion is they're pretty much known for using any and all means to achieve victory. With chaos, there is pretty much nothing in the way of a formal organisational structure like the loyalists have. What you have are pockets of traitor marines under the rule of many varied commanders, that all have the same level of autonomy. What's allowed, is really more of a question of how you wish to build your force. Cultists are the one concession to fluff I would suggest, as its well known the alphas make use of human operatives. If you wish them to be hordes of chaff or trained bands of operatives then its completely your call. Daemons are totally allowed, they're a tool, an asset to be used like most things. Your lord may favour the use of them more. We do have a named daemon prince called voldorious in the background, so it can't be argued they're immune to dalliances with the warp. At the end of the day, what will make them alpha legion will be how you play them. Be unconventional, be disruptive and above all have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J!MM!L!C!OUS Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Thanks very much guys, very useful information :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Hehe, personally I see Alphas as borderline (which I find awesome, as they shout "For the Emperor" as they charge loyalists to the Inquisitions great dismay) loyalists :) Then again, after 10 000 years, many of them will have truly fallen no doubt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Alpha Legion MO...hmm... Well, one thing is for sure. Long before the fighting takes place on the tabletop, the Alpha Legion arrived at the location and infiltrated the local populace. Their operatives have been destabilizing the area so that armed intervention from the legion or another party can take place more easily. This plan can be everything from engaging a loyalist force when they think they are only against angry mobs, or destroy vital supply-chains supplying their real target with important goods(like food or ammunition/weapons), or even as a part of an attack-plan by a chaos lord that hired their services to more easily be able to attack the area. The plan might come in fruition within years, or decades, or centuries, patience is a keystone! On the battlefield there is little use of infiltration of the enemy force, that stage is passed. Alpha Legion tactics use supreme logistics and the personal initiative of the marines to make an assault on the enemy troops from all directions at the same time, relentlessly pounding the enemy force and stretching out the lines until they snap under the pressure. Teleporting troops, outflanking manouvers, combined arms and nowadays even the summoning and useage of daemons as shocktroops where applicable are used, usually with great effect against the unprepared and unsuspecting victims of the Alpha Legion traps and ambushes. Even the Alpha legion's own allies might not even be aware for what side they are fighting until it's too late. Their warcry "for the emperor" serves as a great weapon to confuse their foes, while true imperial forces used as allies is convinced that they are actually on the correct side of the conflict with the legionnaires, or begin to doubt their own sides loyalties when pitted against them. The aftermath depends on the situation though. After a significant event like Ghorstangrad, the planet is simply taken over with factories and other facilities converted for dark purposes, while in other battles result in the devastation of the populace and a barren world is left behind, forever tainted and left for the Inquisition to cleanse(and waste resources on instead of using them on more "important" targets). The Alpha Legion treachery reaches deep into the imperium, with everything from imperial Inquisitors and marines to mechanicum and lowly guardsmen, pdf and factory workers as their either willing or unwitting pawns and operatives. Many many imperial citizens toil away completely unaware about which dark masters they truly serve... So the question stands...have you checked your body for hydra tatoos lately? :) HYDRA DOMINATUS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Alpha Legion MO...hmm... Well, one thing is for sure. Long before the fighting takes place on the tabletop, the Alpha Legion arrived at the location and infiltrated the local populace. Their operatives have been destabilizing the area so that armed intervention from the legion or another party can take place more easily. This plan can be everything from engaging a loyalist force when they think they are only against angry mobs, or destroy vital supply-chains supplying their real target with important goods(like food or ammunition/weapons), or even as a part of an attack-plan by a chaos lord that hired their services to more easily be able to attack the area. The plan might come in fruition within years, or decades, or centuries, patience is a keystone! On the battlefield there is little use of infiltration of the enemy force, that stage is passed. Alpha Legion tactics use supreme logistics and the personal initiative of the marines to make an assault on the enemy troops from all directions at the same time, relentlessly pounding the enemy force and stretching out the lines until they snap under the pressure. Teleporting troops, outflanking manouvers, combined arms and nowadays even the summoning and useage of daemons as shocktroops where applicable are used, usually with great effect against the unprepared and unsuspecting victims of the Alpha Legion traps and ambushes. Even the Alpha legion's own allies might not even be aware for what side they are fighting until it's too late. Their warcry "for the emperor" serves as a great weapon to confuse their foes, while true imperial forces used as allies is convinced that they are actually on the correct side of the conflict with the legionnaires, or begin to doubt their own sides loyalties when pitted against them. The aftermath depends on the situation though. After a significant event like Ghorstangrad, the planet is simply taken over with factories and other facilities converted for dark purposes, while in other battles result in the devastation of the populace and a barren world is left behind, forever tainted and left for the Inquisition to cleanse(and waste resources on instead of using them on more "important" targets). The Alpha Legion treachery reaches deep into the imperium, with everything from imperial Inquisitors and marines to mechanicum and lowly guardsmen, pdf and factory workers as their either willing or unwitting pawns and operatives. Many many imperial citizens toil away completely unaware about which dark masters they truly serve... So the question stands...have you checked your body for hydra tatoos lately? :ph34r: HYDRA DOMINATUS!!! A sincere thanks for that refreshing and excellent fluffy post :D You should have been Lorgars whelp you know :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 You should have been Lorgars whelp you know :ph34r: Nevah! The boys in blue and green stole my heart already in 2nd ed...though they weren't really green then, just blue with metal trims... ...well, the John Blanche drawings were actually a bit green too... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J!MM!L!C!OUS Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Cheers, this is all great :D I'm really getting a good feel for them, definately think I'm going to go with my idea in the OP :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Their warcry "for the emperor" serves as a great weapon to confuse their foes I didn't know that was your warcry, pretty hilarious. Although it's obviously just an example or your continuing attachment to the Corpse God and subsequent heresy. I've always felt that it's such a shame that the core of the Alpha Legion tactics are so hard to represent on the battlefield. Oh, I couldn't see if anyone's mentioned it yet, but I think every trooper answers to the name Alpharius on the battlefield and many are very, very similar to their Primarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J!MM!L!C!OUS Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 I think every trooper answers to the name Alpharius on the battlefield and many are very, very similar to their Primarch. I read something about this before - is this 100% the case? Am I liable to sweeping attacks from fluff nazi's if I name my HQ's Ernie and Bert? :lol: *Edit - Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Not at all. The alpharius thing is more of an in battle thing, consider it another form of deception, one which means our command structure is rarely evident on the battlefield. Bear in mind there are lords in the fluff with very individual titles such as arkos the faithless. If you want to go for a suitably menacing moniker then go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I think every trooper answers to the name Alpharius on the battlefield and many are very, very similar to their Primarch. I read something about this before - is this 100% the case? Am I liable to sweeping attacks from fluff nazi's if I name my HQ's Ernie and Bert? :D *Edit - Grammar In one of the BL stories about Alpha legion has Omegon saying something similar to "different times now" when someone comments to him introducing his marines with names or something. Think it was Serpent Beneath... ...but well, Erine and Bert might be a bit too much...depending on the models ofc. Suitable conversions will make it logical, hihi :P When reading through the BL stories, I imagine(more and more actually) that Alpharius is the commander of the legion army strength, the outward face(or one of his lookalikes ofc), making the tactical decisions and designs, while Omegon is the one controlling the infiltrating and plotting behind the scenes(using lookalikes himself too ofc). This division in duties is quite nice and gives Omegon some character apart from just "Alpharius's twin"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 yeh, there are several stories about the alpha legion, and Legion, from Dan Abnett out of the Horus Heresy series is a very good source for info, its a bit confusing until it all comes together :P Anyhows, normally daemons are not the favorite tool of the AL, as they need preparations and a good link to the warp for them to be summoned, and the AL is everywhere, so not always near a good link with the warp. Thus they choose to rely on more reliable means, like cultists, spies and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Hehe, personally I see Alphas as borderline (which I find awesome, as they shout "For the Emperor" as they charge loyalists to the Inquisitions great dismay) loyalists :tu: Then again, after 10 000 years, many of them will have truly fallen no doubt! I think they do that to mess with the people in the know (apparently, the vast majority of the Imperial population doesn't know about the Heresy/"Bad" space marines) so when they see Space Marines, even ones with spikes and Technorganic armor (wish I'd know about those kits before I scratched my idea for my warband all having a variation of the Obliterator virus) they just think "Oh, those Astartes and their odd customs" so when they turn and attack say, a loyalist Imperial guard army and shout "For the Emperor" it makes for a chance that the majority of ground pounders (who aren't in the know about the Heresy, and "Bad Space Marines") to be more susceptable to being 'flipped' and used as assets against the Imperium if they think the IoM has turned against them and the "Noble space marines" take pity on them at the last second. Plus, it really, really pisses off the Loyalists who know the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J!MM!L!C!OUS Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 This is a really nice thread guys, a good collection of knowledge and suppositions coming together :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctimonius Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 As others have pointed out the Alpha Legion have a number of options for them, all of which are kinda fun to think about. 1) Use the Chaos dex. As others have pointed out Chaos Cultists would be used by the Word Bearers a lot, local populace stirred up with the anti-Imperial rhetoric to fight for their dark masters. But Alpha legion make good use of operatives, having many men working for them even in other allied forces (pre-Heresy, because of course none of the Chaos legions really have allies anymore...). The idea of having a few legionaries and scores of cultists is very fluffy - treat the Alpha legion as the elite troops of your army. As for using daemons, as others have said the Alpha legion would use any and all advantages to win, but personally I feel like they are Chaos Undivided for a reason, and will prefer to rely on the strength of (super-human) man to carry the day - which isn't to say they wouldn't use daemons when the time was right for them... 2) Maybe a controversial one - use the Space Marine dex. The Alpha legion have shown time and again that they are the masters of infiltrating Imperial command structures and using this to their advantage. Hell, they managed to wipe out an entire Space Marine chapter with these tactics. Alpha legionaries would have access to all of the resources their operatives would, such as new-fangled Imperial tech and mech which they would...repurpose. While the rules don't quite fit it would be a really cool and fluffy army to paint, with hints of Alpha legion sigils here and there. Hell, these could even represent an Alpha faction that never went full dark side and remain truly loyal to the 'real' Emperor, attacking the religiosity of the 41st millenium and the tools the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy use to control the Imperium. 3) Use the Imperial Guard codex, with Alpha Legion allies. I like this idea the most, personally. Think about it - the Alpha legion have infiltrated the local garrison and when the time was right they removed and killed all of the loyalist officers and commissars who could not be swayed to their cause. Then they rise and remove the local authority from power (rather messily) and fortify for the inevitable reprisals from nearby Imperials. You would have Imperial guardsmen who had been swayed to the Alpha legion's cause and a small contingent of Chaos which would represent the Alpha legion in the area - they prefer to use operatives and the small application of force exactly where it is needed. They don't mass an army and charge forward, they convince others of the right of their cause and work with them to win. Again, the painting/converting possibilites would be cool, and again the Alpha legion would be the elite of the force - massed gunfire of the Guard with chaos marines to back them in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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