Gabriel Seth

[Hadron Ka'sel]

Simply put I'm intrigued to hear peoples different experiences on using him. As of yet i've never actually used him in a game, but i have been thinking of putting together a unit of 6DC in a drop pod with Seth as a fluffy unit for my D.I.Y chapter. Plus, for some reason, dumping down howling mad men in the midst of my enemy and watching as they panic seems rather fun to me.

 

So, whats he like?

[Deschenus Maximus]

Objectively, not great. Whirlwind of attack was nerfed by the way piling works now. He only has a 3+ save so he's vulnerable to almost all power weapons. He does give his squad Fearless, but that's not enough to make him worth it over say a cheap libby.

 

Opinions will differ.

[Chaplain Admetus]

For me: Same problem as Corbulo. Specifically, lack of good places to put him, cos he's on foot. Crusader/Redeemer or Storm Raven are the best bets. In a drop pod with DC could work, but that's going to get shot to ribbons on turn 1.

[Hadron Ka'sel]

hmmmm, shame about whirl. Though even though he only has 3+ he does have an iron halo, and his sword is still pretty tasty with its strength 8 and rending. Maybe using DC Tyco for 15 more points might work better? 2+ fnp, relentless and dead mans hand. I could even model it so he has a weapon that represents it. So the general opinion is that although he looks good on paper, in reality he's not so good. Shame :(

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

He's pretty good if you don't play against MEQ. Pretty bad if you do.

[knife&fork]

hmmmm, shame about whirl. Though even though he only has 3+ he does have an iron halo, and his sword is still pretty tasty with its strength 8 and rending. Maybe using DC Tyco for 15 more points might work better? 2+ fnp, relentless and dead mans hand. I could even model it so he has a weapon that represents it. So the general opinion is that although he looks good on paper, in reality he's not so good. Shame :P

 

DC Tycho can't join units. You could play him as regular Tycho though.

[SamaNagol]

Corbulo is awesome, so is normal Tycho. For different reasons.

 

6th Ed has totally changed the fine details of close combat, but it didn't really make Seth any better unlike Tycho and Corbs.

 

Better off with a reclusiarch with a Fist or Tycho tbh if you want a combat orientated character for the 155-175 points range

[Tamwulf]

According to more than one person in this thread, I'm so far off base and just plain wrong that I've warranted a line by line review of just how wrong I am about Seth. Which is too bad as I think he's a great model and has good rules for his points cost.

 

It's always easier to tear people apart and tell them how wrong they are, then express your own thoughts, ideas and opinions.

 

Good Day, Sir!

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

DC Tycho and Mephiston are the only BA HQs who aren't Independent Characters and there are two Elite choices that are ICs, one of which allows you to take up to three ICs in a single slot. It's possible, though obviously inadvisable, to take eleven ICs in a single FOC. Hardly "very few".

[Deschenus Maximus]

Fearless now extends to the whole unit. Very nice when the unit he joins does not have the Red Thirst.

 

True, that is nice, but you can get that for cheaper with a Reclusiarch, which also make the rest of his squad deadlier.

 

Ferocious Instincts is an automatic wound when they roll a 1. This has been a nice little benefit on more than one occasion for me.

 

Then you've been playing that wrong. Its an automatic S4 HIT, not automatic wound. Nothing to really write home about.

 

Seth is one of the very few Blood Angels characters that is Independent.

 

Dante, not-DC Tycho, Astorath, librarians, reclusiarch, captains, chaplains and sanguinary priests are all Independent. If you stick to HQs, you still have 6 other choices.

 

Finally, Whirlwind of Gore. Combine that with Blood Reaver and you have a very effective vehicle killer. I can't tell you how many times Seth was able to move into close combat with a vehicle- and automatically hit it with a strength 8 rending attack (Skimmers be damned!). Not such a big deal in 6th Ed where vehicles are WS 1 or 0, but say against a Walker, this could be nice.

 

Why do one automatic hit on a dread when you would in all likeliness do at least 2 if you tried to hit it normally?

 

Seth did take a hit in 6th, I will admit. Changes to pile in limit his Whirlwind of Gore, and his usefulness as a vehicle killer has changed. Not diminished, just changed. His base of four attacks with a Str 8 Rending attack can't be underestimated. Remember that Whirlwind of Gore is an automatic hit. Blood Reaver indeed!

 

In an army chock-full of meltaguns, you really shouldn't ever have to care wether your characters are vehicle-killers are not.

 

His saves are not all that bad, considering he's in a Blood Angels army where Feel No Pain is so very easy to get.

 

Compared to a 2+, a 3+ is pretty meh, FnP or not.

 

Seth himself deals instant death with Blood Reaver to T4 characters.

 

Nobz may care, but any character with a decent save most likely doesn't.

 

As it's at I6 and it's rending, it makes him a pretty good challenge character.

 

He's I5, actually.

 

Seth doesn't really have any global effects on your army, but he adds significantly to the melee capability of the unit he joins.

 

There are better, cheaper ways to do that.

 

Finally, he's the cheapest special character in the BA Codex.

 

The others may be more expensive, but also add more. Dante unlocks a whole new army type, Mephiston is just a total beast, Tycho improves the leadership of your whole army, Astorath increases the chance of getting Red Thirst. There's more to comparing costs than just comparing the point cost.

 

When you get done adding all the little extras to your Epistolary Librarian or Reclusiarch Chaplain, he is still cheaper.

 

Epistolary libbies are waste of points, and Reclusiarchs don't need much upgrading, if any.

 

Try and tool up a Captain with similar wargear and he's still cheaper.

 

Captains are overcosted crap, so kinda moot point.

 

It's been fun using him and my opponent totally underestimates how useful he is. Is he the best special character in the BA Codex? No. He is the cheapest, and he can be very versatile and effective if used correctly. For the points cost alone, he is one of the best Special Characters.

 

I say he's easily one of the worst. Not the worst, but Dante, Mephiston, Astorath and even Tycho are much better value for points.

[Apahllo]

^i think your reply is still in 5th Ed. He is awesome because he is extremely versatile and can hold his own wherever you put him. Maybe not a tournament character but most defiantly a solid unit to have on the board.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Sucks against MEQ and TEQ, so "can hold his own wherever you put him" isn't exactly true. As for extremely versatile, yes in the sense that he can engage light infantry and tanks. But you know what? For an extra 15 points, you can do that AND be awesome against 2+ saves AND boost the ld of every squad on the board.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I agree with everything Deschenus has said. If he hadn't done a by-line quote breakdown, I would have.

 

Seth has tons of flavor and may be very fun to play. Competitive, he is not.

[AlphaErix]

Then what are your thoughts on using him as the HQ for an allied detachment? Obviously, it would depend on what else you are playing. But using him to open up priests and assault squad troop choices in another army could provide some advantage I would think.

[Hadron Ka'sel]

Then what are your thoughts on using him as the HQ for an allied detachment? Obviously, it would depend on what else you are playing. But using him to open up priests and assault squad troop choices in another army could provide some advantage I would think.

 

Thats a very interesting idea. Its given me an idea for a fluffy list i was thinking of but going SW > BA. It would be the other half of my BA chapters. Thanks for that mate :)

 

In regards to this main list im working on, all very good points. Thanks for the input so far. Didn't realize DC Tycho wasn't an ID. Still normal Tycho leading the unit would still work nicely. No FnP for sure but at least he has that 2+

[Deschenus Maximus]

Then what are your thoughts on using him as the HQ for an allied detachment? Obviously, it would depend on what else you are playing. But using him to open up priests and assault squad troop choices in another army could provide some advantage I would think.

 

Why would it need to be Seth? Any HQ can do that.

[Midnightmare]

+1 for Tycho over Seth, and although Seth is cool, Tycho beats him on that too....

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Personally the only thing I can really see that is 'good' about Seth, in isolation, is that his miniature is awesome. Easily, IMO, the best-looking BA HQ.

 

I use his model in my DC, with FT iconography filed off, as a counts-as Thunder Hammer.

[AlphaErix]

Why would it need to be Seth? Any HQ can do that.

 

I just wanted to get thoughts on using him for the Allied Detachment. How would he be good over another HQ choice? What armies would he best fit with? Just stuff like that.

[SamaNagol]

If you want to play Flesh Tearers just make up your own fictional HQ and use another choice. Cos Seth is just not good.

[Demoulius]

Tbh Seth might not be the optimum choice but id hardly call him bad...

 

If any MEQ fails a save (and Seth has rending to! so its not unheard of that your ignoring armour ;)) hes dead if he fails his invul save thanks to his S8 weapon. It might lull an opponent into a false sense of security as well if he thinks he can just use his armour save :pinch: Some taunt your opponent into a challenge and keep bashing him till he drops ;) With a FnP save nearby (no reason why a priest shouldnt be near Seth) He gets a 4++ and 5++ against non ID power weapon attacks that DO bypass his save.

 

Hes far from bad and tbh the model is nice ;) if your going to a tourney though then yes, there are better choices...

[Brother Kovash]

I've always looked at Seth as a purely favored choice. If you want to play something different, if you want to have a unique HQ that not many others are probably running, then Gabriel Seth is your Marine.

[Killax]

The only problem I have with (multiple and this) character is that they don't come with Jump Packs or have the upgrade, which really is a shame.

 

Now Gabriel is a fine guy, get him if you need him. He's not the most general chosen general ;) but still good.

[Tamwulf]

I beg everyone's pardon on having an opinion and apparently have deserved a line by line breakdown of just how wrong I am. Guess my panties are all in a twist now.

 

Sorry if I have fun playing 40K while ya'll metagame.

[Sixestohit]

I actually enjoyed your post Tamwulf. It brought up some points I thoroughly agree with. I first tried Seth a while ago as I was looking for a good HQ that wasn't 240+ points. I think value for points wise Seth is great! I've also enjoyed using Tycho for the same reason, it feels a lot cheaper :)

 

Seth adds a lot to a few of our units, I particularly like running him with a priest and some non jump pack vanguard vets, quite a nasty little squad.

 

I'd also never thought about using that auto hit vs a single target, there could be many uses for that one!

 

I actually use another model to represent him, as he fits perfectly rules wise for my pre heresy armies Amit from Fear To Tread. :)

 

James.