What Primarch Models will be released for "Betrayal"?

[Circus Nurgling]

Ok, for obvious reasons we can narrow the upcoming models for primarchs down to the four that participated: Horus, Mortarion, Fulgrim, and obviously Angron (since his model will be up for grabs this weekend). Since this book covers the events in Istvaan III, but only Angron personally had boots on the ground, do you think we will get another Primarch model for this book release? I doubt we'll see Horus' model released this round, as he's a centerpiece to the ordeal, but we'll leave him in for sake of discussing what event would be most appropriate for his model to appear. Fulgrim played a larger part at Istvaan V, so I'm guessing we'll see his release then. Mortarion has two shots at getting a model: now or the siege of Terra, and since he had a more hands on role at the siege, I'm guessing we're going to be waiting quite a bit for Mortarion...

 

Obviously leave any spoilers blacked out, from the HH novels.

 

Also, for the sake of discussion, we could talk about the release of other Primarch models. I think it's obvious when we'll see Russ and Magnus. Dorn we probably won't see until the siege of Terra. I've no idea when would be appropriate to see a Konrad Curze...

 

[edit] I'll keep a tally on what has been confirmed here, and continue to edit it based on news and rumours.

 

2 sources have confirmed that chaos counterparts to primarchs will be done (gamesday 2012)

 

Phil at GD stated that the Emperor would not be done, stating that 'some things should be left alone'.

 

Istvaan III: "Betrayal"

Angron (confirmed)

Horus

Fulgrim (Multiple sources claims Simon Egan stated Fulgrim 'would be next' at GD2012)

Mortarion

 

Siege of Istvaan V part 1: "Massacre" -confirmed at GD 2012

Source at GD stated legions would be Iron Hands, Night Lords, Salamanders and Word Bearers (a second source confirmed this)

Ferrus Manus

Konrad Curze

Vulkan

Lorgar

 

Siege of Istvaan V part II: "???" -confirmed GD 2012

Fulgrim

Horus

Corax (Escaped, so maybe later, but more likely here)

 

Battle of Calth

Lorgar (most likely)

Guilliman (here or not at all)

 

The Burning of Prospero

Magnus the Red

Leman Russ

 

Battle of Diamat

Lion 'El Jonson

 

Battle of Thramas

Curze

Jonson

 

Battle at the Phall System

Perturabo

Rogal Dorn

Titan love???

 

Battle of Signus Prime

Sanguinus (here or siege of Terra)

Ka'bandha (looks like existing Greater Daemon of Khorne, existing model) may get new rules

 

Battle of Tallarn (I'm not holding my breath for this one. It may be covered in the Siege of Terra volumes?)

Perturabo

Imperial Guard love???

 

Siege of Terra - multiple volumes?

Sanguinus

Mortarion (chaos counterpart)

Khan

Horus

Dorn

Magnus (chaos counterpart)

Lorgar

Perturabo (chaos counterpart)

Horus (chaos counterpart)

Angron (chaos counterpart)

Fulgrim (chaos counterpart)

Dark Mechanicum engines?

Mechanicus?

[Olis]

I'm thinking we may get a Horus model along with Angron (but I'm not holding my breath). As for Mortarion... I think his grand day out will be for the Isstvan V book, imho.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

probably only Angron in the first book, since he was the only Primarch to fight at Istvan III. I'm expecting rules for Angron, Horus, Fulgrim and Mortarion with the Mortarion and Fulgrim modles coming in with Istvan V (probably Corax, Vulcan and Ferrus Manus).

 

I'd expect Guilliman and maybe Lorga with the Calth book (unless Lorgar comes out with the Istvan V), Magnus and Russ with the Prospero.

 

The rest are a bit iffy, I don't expect a Signus prime book so Sanguinius and Dorn will no doubt be the siege of terra book (maybe the Khan aswell).

 

I'd imagine they handle Alpha legion, dark angels and Night lords in a book detailing the delaying campaighn, maybe this is where the White scars will be listed aswell.

 

I'm expecting calth to be the big Imperial Army release, Istvan II and V are obviously going to be all about the power armour.

[Circus Nurgling]

I think there are too many other primarchs to be released for the istvaan V books, of which there will probably be several volumes. 1-2 to encompass the initial siege, and another 1-2 to cover the dropsite massacre. Horus, Ferrus Manus, Fulgrim, Vulcan, and Corax would be notable choices for the first iteration, excluding Mortarion for the siege (which would be a more appropriate release given the massive amount of primarchs here and Mortarion's smaller role here and larger role at the siege) but there are so many that you may be correct about Horus being released right away as this is quite a few primarchs to be releasing (though he hasn't been fully transformed by chaos just yet so it may be inappropriate for his immediate release). The dropsite massacre iterations would release Curze, Perturabo, Lorgar, and Alpharius.

 

The way this breaks down, it's reasonable to see 2 primarchs per book being released in my opinion. Based on this (very loose) assumption, I'm guessing a total of 4 books to cover the istvaan V battle.

 

Calth would be an appropriate release for Lorgar and Guilliman, I agree.

 

An infiltrating/delaying campaign, especially to cover the capture of the forge world Diamat, which I know very little about. This might be an interesting time to see some beginnings of dark mechanicus as well... but would definitely be the right time to see The Lion, as well as possibly some Night Lords and/or Alpha Legion models.

[Rider-75]

Although there are 4 legions covered in book 1 I doubt we'll see 4 Primarchs.

 

I'd guess 2 per book, plus the Big E and the dual Alpharius/Omegon gives you 20 models.

 

With 2 per book that gives FW a good 10 book span to do them over.

 

But then again... Who knows!!

 

Oh, and as for Horus....

 

Thinking about it for a nano-second, I'd lay money on a "now and then", as it were, version of him. One early heresy where he's still basically Horus, and the other where he's the corrupted monster seen at the end of the Heresy in the art work.

[Circus Nurgling]

Oh, and as for Horus....

 

Thinking about it for a nano-second, I'd lay money on a "now and then", as it were, version of him. One early heresy where he's still basically Horus, and the other where he's the corrupted monster seen at the end of the Heresy in the art work.

 

Yeah, this question has been plaguing me as well, since we're going to have different rulesets for both traitor and loyalist legions (unless I'm not remembering correctly and it was just specific troop choices for loyalist v. traitor). Are we going to have different Primarch models for each? Which would be appropriate (and cost effective) to have more than one model for? Certainly Mortarion at Istvaan V and at the Siege of Terra (where he has been twisted by disease but not yet a daemon) would be different enough to warrant two models. Horus as well was transformed by chaos through it all. Magnus became a Daemon Prince shortly after Prospero. At what point Angron was transformed is unclear to me, but an Angron Daemon Prince model would sell like hot-cakes, that much I know. Fulgrim, Lorgar and Perturabo may be deserving of two distinct models as well. Curze and Alpharius didn't see much change, I think.

 

If this "now and then" is to be the rule, as well as 2 primarchs per book release, then now would certainly be the time to release a Horus Model. Besides, what is the Horus Heresy without Horus?

[mactire]

check out forge worlds web page to see angron. this bodes well for the rest. :(

[Circus Nurgling]

I've seen it. I got the new update this morning. It doesn't shed any light on how many primarchs per volume, or how many volumes there will be :(.

 

Although there are 4 legions covered in book 1 I doubt we'll see 4 Primarchs.

 

I'd guess 2 per book, plus the Big E and the dual Alpharius/Omegon gives you 20 models.

 

With 2 per book that gives FW a good 10 book span to do them over.

 

But then again... Who knows!!

Actually, looking at Lexicanum's "Major Battles of the Horus Heresy" article, there are 9 notable battles, discluding Prospero, which would make for 10. Since there was 1 book for Istvaan III, is it reasonable to assume that there would be one book for each battle? In the past, forgeworld has released 2-3 books to cover major campaigns (with examples like the Badab war and Siege of Vraks campaigns), but Istvaan III was just as large of scale with a single volume. However, since there were two major parts of Istvaan V, I'll assume there are 2 volumes there, and for both the Battle for Terra and The Battle for the Palace. I'll disclude The Battle of the Abyss, since it seemed to be a space-faring battle, but include The Battle of Signus Prime and give Daemons players some love. So let's break it down as such:

Istvaan III:

Angron (confirmed)

Horus

Fulgrim (doubtful)

Mortarion

 

The Burning of Prospero

Magnus the Red (definitely)

Leman Russ (definitely)

 

Battle of Diamat

Lion 'El Jonson (definitely)

??? Mechanicum???

 

Siege of Istvaan V -multiple volumes?

Mortarion (Here or Siege of Terra)

Fulgrim

Horus

Corax (Escaped, so maybe later, but more likely here)

Ferrus Manus (definitely)

Vulkan (definitely)

Lorgar (doubtful)

Battle of Calth

Lorgar (most likely)

Guilliman (here or not at all)

 

Battle of Thramas

Curze

Jonson

 

Battle at the Phall System

Perturabo

Rogal Dorn

Titan love???

 

Battle of Signus Prime

Sanguinus (here or siege of Terra)

Ka'bandha (looks like existing Greater Daemon of Khorne, existing model) may get new rules

 

Battle of Tallarn (I'm not holding my breath for this one. It may be covered in the Siege of Terra volumes?)

Perturabo

Imperial Guard love???

 

Siege of Terra - multiple volumes?

Sanguinus

Mortarion (variant?)

Khan

Horus

Dorn

Magnus (ascended)

Lorgar

Perturabo (variant?)

Horus (variant?)

Angron (variant?)

Fulgrim (variant?)

Dark Mechanicum engines?

Mechanicus?

 

Still unclear where Konrad Curze and Alpharius/Omegon would come into play, but it does give us some grounds to make a few assumptions.

1. That Forge World will do all the Primarchs.

2. That Forge World will cover the events surrounding each Primarch to include him into the volumes of the Horus Heresy, aka Warhammer 30k.

3. (assuming 1 and 2 are correct) That the events at Prospero, Calth and Diamat will be covered, as without those events Russ, Guilliman and Jonson would likely not have models (unless we are to assume that rules and models would simply be included somewhere else).

 

A couple of these events could be consolidated into a single volume, while at least 2 events warrant more than a single volume, in my opinion. There have also been some fairly heavy hints that there are events that no one has heard of yet, so we'll see how that unfolds.

[Cpt. Lacerus]

I would wager that we'll at least get a "normal" version of each Primarch before they become warped too much. Then later possibly getting a chaos version of the traitors.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Not sure how it will play out, but wont be surprised if they cover the Night Lords, and Curze as well as the Dark Angels and el'Jonson in the Thramas Crusade, too much goodness in there not to cover in a book.

 

This way, you get several Night Lord special characters as well as Dark Angel characters and much, much more detail. We have 2 short stories and a novella set in this crusade, with some background and more info as well that can be drawn upon. Theres at least 2 battles/encounters detailed by BL and FW can add more into it. I think this is a better bet than Diamet to be honest for the DA Legion, mainly because you can really play with NL as well and give them more space than in an Istvan V book(s)

 

I personally expect 2 Istvan V books, one for the loyalists and one for the traitors with only a few Legions really detailed (Salamanders, Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, Raven Guard) and the others basically fleshed out but not all the way. I think it would be better to have Word Bearers covered properly in Calth, Night Lords in Thramas and Alphas...somewhere else.

[DarKnight]

Perhaps multiple models for individual Primarchs? The first Horus could be the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus version in the pearl white Terminator plate and the charcoal black Warmaster of Chaos version. Perhaps I'm getting my hopes too high but here's for hoping we get 'Normal' Primarchs, as well as Daemon Prince versions.

[Circus Nurgling]

I would wager that we'll at least get a "normal" version of each Primarch before they become warped too much. Then later possibly getting a chaos version of the traitors.

Perhaps multiple models for individual Primarchs? The first Horus could be the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus version in the pearl white Terminator plate and the charcoal black Warmaster of Chaos version. Perhaps I'm getting my hopes too high but here's for hoping we get 'Normal' Primarchs, as well as Daemon Prince versions.

Yeah, there seems to be at least some demand for that, though they mostly became daemon princes after retreating to the eye of terror (with the exception of Magnus and Perturabo?). Still, at the very least, Mortarion and Horus underwent significant changes in appearance during the Heresy, even before Mortarion became a Daemon Prince. Perturabo and Lorgar as well, according to some of the artwork I've seen. Fulgrim, Curze, and Alpharius/Omegon remained relatively unchanged in appearance through the heresy... but I'm not sure about Angron's changes. He seems like he was a blood-thirsty freak throughout (and even before) the heresy.

 

Not sure how it will play out, but wont be surprised if they cover the Night Lords, and Curze as well as the Dark Angels and el'Jonson in the Thramas Crusade, too much goodness in there not to cover in a book.

 

This way, you get several Night Lord special characters as well as Dark Angel characters and much, much more detail. We have 2 short stories and a novella set in this crusade, with some background and more info as well that can be drawn upon. Theres at least 2 battles/encounters detailed by BL and FW can add more into it. I think this is a better bet than Diamet to be honest for the DA Legion, mainly because you can really play with NL as well and give them more space than in an Istvan V book(s)

 

I personally expect 2 Istvan V books, one for the loyalists and one for the traitors with only a few Legions really detailed (Salamanders, Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, Raven Guard) and the others basically fleshed out but not all the way. I think it would be better to have Word Bearers covered properly in Calth, Night Lords in Thramas and Alphas...somewhere else.

 

Sounds like that would be a good campaign for forgeworld to encompass into a volume, and would be a decent place to introduce the Night Lords models. I agree fully about having 2 Istvan V books.

[FallenArtist]

Hmmm now i have a question; How many people think they will actually make models for daemon primarchs? Just want to know other peoples opinions before i spend money trying to convert one when i can just wait to buy one hahaha :tu:

[Lord_Caerolion]

From what I remember, they said they're saving Horus for the Siege, leaving us with Mortarion, Fulgrim and Angron for now. As for Curze, I can see him and the Lion being released in a Thramas Crusade book, as some of those "major battles" are relatively minor (Diamat? Phall?), and exclude other major campaigns, like the above-mentioned Thramas Crusade, and the White Scars fighting against the Alpha Legion.

[Brother Captain Andrew]

Perhaps multiple models for individual Primarchs? The first Horus could be the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus version in the pearl white Terminator plate and the charcoal black Warmaster of Chaos version. Perhaps I'm getting my hopes too high but here's for hoping we get 'Normal' Primarchs, as well as Daemon Prince versions.

 

I second this. I think we'll get the pre-mutation versions of the traitor primarchs in the Istvaan III and V books and then their corrupted forms later on. My guesses

 

Betrayal

Angron

Mortation

 

Istvaan 5 part 1

Corax

Lorgar

Vulkan

Perturabo

 

Istvaan 5 part 2

Ferrus Manus

Fulgrim

 

Dark Angels vs Night Lords (forget the system)

Lion

Curze

 

Prospero

Magnus the Red

Leman Russ

 

Battle of Calth

Guilliman (here or not at all)

 

Battle of Signus Prime

Sanguinus

 

Tallarn

Corrupted Perturabo

 

 

Siege of Terra - multiple volumes

Dorn

Khan

Big E

Corrupted Horus

Corrupted Mortarion

Corrupted Magnus

Corrupted Lorgar

Corrupted Angron

Corrupted Fulgrim

[Bigger-than-Jesus]

Well, they've basically stated Fugrim and Mortarion are coming out for Betrayal. And I'd actually reckon Istvaan V would only be one book. If they increase the page count slightly, and leave out the legion army list they can easily squeeze in the added seven legions. While it was important for the Heresy, it's just one long battle, and then the loyalist escape after. As opposed to Istvaan III, which was a battle with the rebels, the Virus bombing, and then three months worth of attacks on the surviving loyalist marines. I reckon that'd lead to roughly the same amount of missions overall

[Circus Nurgling]

Well, they've basically stated Fugrim and Mortarion are coming out for Betrayal. And I'd actually reckon Istvaan V would only be one book. If they increase the page count slightly, and leave out the legion army list they can easily squeeze in the added seven legions. While it was important for the Heresy, it's just one long battle, and then the loyalist escape after. As opposed to Istvaan III, which was a battle with the rebels, the Virus bombing, and then three months worth of attacks on the surviving loyalist marines. I reckon that'd lead to roughly the same amount of missions overall

 

What's your source on this? I'd like to get a solid on that.

 

@Lord Caerolion Yeah those are relatively minor (on Horus Heresy terms), which is why I said that some could be consolidated into a single volume. I'll edit to include Thramas. Phall is where Perturabo took out the Iron Fists, so I think it's significant and may be an excuse to put out a new Titan. Diamat... yeah that could go away or be in a consolidated book with Phall.

 

@Fallen: That's what we're trying to contemplate here ;). I'm hoping they do, but in some cases full on Daemon Prince models wouldn't be a good fit for Horus Heresy, unless there's an epilogue of sorts that covers the retreat into the Eye of Terror (which I'd fully be ok with).

[Midnightmare]

We may not get all the Primarchs! Which would be a bit sad, but hey if they do well off Angron, they will just see the £££ and do them all. I would love the Daemon Primarchs and have often thought of building an army around one of them (likely Angron or Fulgrim conversions, although Angron currently has rules already :P )

[Dosjetka]

Well, they've basically stated Fugrim and Mortarion are coming out for Betrayal.

Source, please?

 

Ludovic

[Bigger-than-Jesus]

Can't remember where I read it, but FW(I think it was Alan Bligh) said they were going to save Horus for the Siege, which implies the other Primarchs in Betrayal are coming out now

[Circus Nurgling]

"We've mentioned already that this internet rumour is simply wrong :)" -ForgeWorldVisualFeed in response to "i think 1 per book so 3 books by the end of this year = fulgrim and mortarion next i think"

[Arachnid99]

Also I really doubt we are getting 2 more FW Heresy books this year, they generally release an IA book every 9 months and these Heresy books longer and more complicated so I'd be amazed if we get book two before Q3 2013.

[malika666]

For those of you thinking Fulgrim will be in Betrayal, note that he wasn't there during the Istvaan/Istvann III campaign...

[TennisBall]

Fulgrim would most likely be in Istvann V as he is the first to kill a Primarch in the Horus Heresy. The three Loyalists should also be there, perhaps Lorgar too.

 

 

Siege of Terra could have Perturabo facing off against Dorn, Horus vs Emperor, Khan vs Magnus ascended

 

Calth and Signus campaigns, if separate, might include one Primarch and one non-Primarch adversary. Ka-Bhanda and/or Kyriss for one, Erebus for t'other.

 

Has it been said how many books there will be?

[FallenArtist]

I feel like they may do Daemon Primarchs for at least a couple of the Traitor Primarchs during the Siege of Terra because i could have sworn Mortarion(May have been a Daemon Prince) and his legion was under Nurgle's control, could be wrong sometimes my fluff is alittle off. Also i feel like another reason they could make them more money and it may make us fans some what happy; If i was part of a company and i heard that people would pay good money for something i would make it and sell it in a heart beat but then again thats me and my idea.