Sternguard Upgrade Pack, can it apply for Dark Angels Vets

[antacidbrn]

Games Workshop has just released a Sternguard Upgrade pack with special weapons. Can I use the bits it contains to field a legal squad that looks like this:

 

Seargeant with Lightning claws

One Vet with a Heavy Flamer (In Power Armor!)

One Vet with Combi Flamer

One Vet with Combi Metla

One Vet with Combi Plasma

 

Thoughts?

[Captain Semper]

Everything looks fine except the H. Flamer. This I believe is not an option for DAs Company Veterans...

[Isiah]

You really need to get hold of a DA Codex antacidbrn, all your Veteran squad loadout issues are solved on page 83.

 

Cheers

I

[EPK]

Wait are you talking about the pack that is just the weapons?

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...Id=prod1710018a

 

Just save the heavy flamer for your Deathwing.

[librisrouge]

Or hold it until next edition.

 

If we get Sternguard I'm using them with double heavy flamers (though I'm modifying GK Incinerators myself.)

[pueriexdeus]

I so hope we don't get Sternguard or Vanguard for that matter. Our Company Vets could use some love though.

[Cypher 102]

We don't need no steenkin' vanguard, sternguard, or even company veterans! Our veteran marines wear terminator armor! Give the special ammo to our Deathwing! Give us a reason to use something other than just hammernators!

[Captain Semper]

When you say "we don't need them" you mean they are unfluffy or just units you'll never choose to field (i.e. not woth their points)?

[Cypher 102]

I'm with the "it's unfluffy crowd". I've been playing Dark Angels since before the Deathwing had their 5++ save. I think it was an unnecessary retcon. Unless I'm wrong most of the people wanting sternguard are really just wanting the special ammo. I think it might be more interesting and fitting with our original character to give it to the Deathwing instead. Of course it shouldn't be free and maybe the downside would be having to buy a combi-bolter to use it in.

[librisrouge]

I'm not just wanting special ammo (though it would be nice), I'm wanting tactical veterans. I for one, loved the idea of Company Veterans. They represent the tactical flexability of the Dark Angels perfectly since they deviat from the...sigh...Codex Astartes (which does not approve of this post)...by allowing a Company Master to gather his most experienced marines for specific missions outside of the normal command structure.

 

When I say 'sternguard' I agree with the hope that we don't just get a copy and paste of Codex Space Marine entries. I want our own version of tactical veterans based on the concept of Company Veterans. Of course, they'd likely look very similar to Sternguard.

[Cypher 102]

A company master's most experienced marines should be his command squad.

[Captain Semper]

A company master's most experienced marines should be his command squad.

 

What, only 5?

 

I think the Company Vets was a good compromise to get vets in PA without touching DW's legacy of being Termie only. Since becoming DW is not just about prowess in battle but also about the mental ability to withstand knowledge that is potentially destabilizing, one could argue that there are those that match DW in combat ability but are not deemed ready to be exposed to DW secrets. However, given how the game has developed, excluding Company Vets is really a big handicap to pay for a minor retcon in the fluff. If they were to place them in the 1st Company - thus allowing PA DW - that would be a major hit in what is consider to be a pillar in the DA background. But that way everybody's happy: DW remains pure Termie force but for gaming purposes you have access to something reminiscent of other Chapters' PA 1st Comp. Vets. I don't see any harm.

 

However I support your take of issuing special ammo to DW - that'll be beyond cool and in line with the fluff... I mean if the DW don't have access to it, who would? :P

[Tamwulf]

Dark Angels don't need Sternguard, Vanguard, or any other unit already in the C:SM. That just moves the Dark Angels closer to Codex:Space Marines. We need mechanical lions.

 

Unless there is a huge shift or retcon of the DA Fluff, the only veterans in a Dark Angels army are the ones that belong to the Deathwing and wear Terminator Armor.

 

The Veteran squad in the current codex was a bone for the players, as the codex would have been pretty boring with only two Elites choices, two Troops, two fast attack, and three Heavy Support. Instead, the designers inserted a completely new squad outside of the fluff into the elites, moved a couple more things around, and gave us only one troop choice. What's really frustrating is that surely things like Ironclad Dreads, Land Raider Redeemers, Land Speeder Storms, Scout Squad Bikers, Sternguard, and Vanguard were all in development at the same time as the DA Codex. Hindsight is 20/20, and looking back, you can really, really see some horrible design work on the DA Codex. It really wasn't much better then the phamplet codex from 3.0, but at least we didn't get the White Dwarf treatment. Then again, maybe that would have been netter considering how it turned out for the Blood Angels.

 

I'd rather see a Gunslinger unit with some kind of new rules then just adding Sternguard to the DA Codex.

[Brother Kovash]

I've always thought that GW should allow us to use Company Veterans count as troops, but limit that selection to only 1 per army. That would give us something different from the vanilla codex, a scoring unit that has access to all special kinds of weaponry. And it would also fit the fluff, since Company Vets are part of the regular Battle Companies.

[abraxus]

I completely agree. Currently I'm working on the 4th company, and the first squad will be a veterans squad, followed by squads 2-6 being your "standard" tactical squad.

[Apahllo]

I'm not just wanting special ammo (though it would be nice), I'm wanting tactical veterans. I for one, loved the idea of Company Veterans. They represent the tactical flexability of the Dark Angels perfectly since they deviat from the...sigh...Codex Astartes (which does not approve of this post)...by allowing a Company Master to gather his most experienced marines for specific missions outside of the normal command structure.

Ooh, have ammo types be upgrades psyammo style. That sounds awesome.

[Captain Semper]

Instead, the designers inserted a completely new squad outside of the fluff into the elites...

 

As opposed to mechanical Lions that are inside the fuff?

 

Look, you cannot have an entire army of mechanical lions. You need the DAs to still be recogniseable as a SM force and have some of the signature units of the SM faction available to them. What these options are may be subjective but Company Veterans as an equivalent of sternguard is really a very good solution. Keeps the traditionalists happy (sort of) as it does not harm the TDA-only concept of the DW. It also kept the crowd that shouted "how come we don't have so and so unit - everybody else has it!" happy too (sort of).

 

Yes our Codex is blunt and allows for limited competitive builds. And we desperately need a new one - and I agree with you a couple of mechanical lion units might be in order in this day and age. But attacking a genuinly good unit (both conceptually and on the table) is not the way to go. Oh an now it is part of the fluff - since 2006 actually.

[Master Sheol]

Company veterans can be easily added to justify the peculiar way a DA moves through the ranks of the Chapter.

In normal SM Cnapters when you prove to be worth you enter in the first company without any additional waiting. But in DA you must prove to be worth to know the secret of the Fallen too. So when a DA is ready to be evaluated he is inducted into a special unit inside the company called company veterans (or any other fancy name you want) where they are scrutinized by the company chaplain to see when they are ready to learn aout the fallen and enter DW.

So the typical DA company will have 11 squads with 1 being the company veterans making us different from codex marines.

This could be the fluff but about rules?

Company veterans come from all the squads of the company so theycan use various kind of weapons and equipment and they are meant to enter the dw where the tactical flexibility will be shown by mixing weapons to adapt to the vbattlefield.

So the company veteran should have access to all options from the tactical, assault and devastators squads.. Thry wont have access to a big load of power weapons but they can mix the weapons. Another thing is thevstats. Look at the DV pamplet. RW bikers are LD 9 now but still A 1. It show they are veterans but they are not DW. Company veterans should have the same stat line and being still stubborn. Fearless is for the DW.

And obviously they are troops with 0-1 limitation.

Real veterans and elite will be the DW and the inner circle units (i would call them the INNERGUARD) with the latter being pa dw inducted into inner circle to act as bodyguard for the IC (our version of honour guard). Dw and innerguard should have access to special ammunitions.

 

I think this is a good way to show the progression from scout to grand master...

Scout->reserve company->battle company->company veteran or rw->dw->inner circle....

[DAG42]

Wait are you talking about the pack that is just the weapons?

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...Id=prod1710018a

 

Just save the heavy flamer for your Deathwing.

 

It's not a HF, in the description it's called a flamer. I think it may be the new version or a special style just for vets.

 

I don't think we really need Stern or Vanguard vets. Both of those are a 1st company by the vanilla dex. Keep ours compny vets, give upgrade ammo option and a slot to get jumpacks, which then makes them the most versatile unit in the game. Plus they stay out of our DW. Or no JP's but options for Sgt. relic blade and because they all can get pw's now.

[Brother Kovash]

The flamer weapon pictured in the weapon pack is identical to the Heavy Flamer carried by terminators. I don't know why GW describes it as simply a flamer in the description, might be a mistake.