Deadman Wade Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Also, Abaddon is even more killy now. 4A base, +1 for 2 specialist weapons, +2 on charge, so it's 7+D6 S5 AP2 with deamon weapon or 7 S8 AP3 shred! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Ok I got one question concerning Maulerfiend, as he hits automatically with hammer of wrath, does that mean it will have those 2 magma cutter hits guaranteed in turn it charges? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Problem with fearless is that you can't go to ground for objective-holding vs. low-ap weapons. The inability to not use the "our weapons are useless" rule only counts against AV13 walkers for them so is not that huge of an impact. The fearless flag also has all the problems our current icons have, that it is on a snipeable model, plus it's more expensive than veterans by 15 points! A squad of veteran CSM with bg+bp+ccw for 170p is only 5p more than our current 9+champ unit at 165p, and for those 5p they gain Hatred(Space Marines) and any other rules they might have, that area is shrouded in the photos... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Uh guys, I would not compare it just like that, because CCWs are bought/swapped PER MODEL, not for entire squad there is room from customisation. Also don't forget our champ is cheaper, is auto included (so automatically 1 point better leadership than gh, which can be further improved + you gain hatred against ALL loyalist SM) and doesn't take up 2nds specialist weapon slot + option to take heavy weapons. + for point cost of current MoCG they have fearless now. But wait, there is more! GH will not get progressively better as they kill stuff. Also you surely noticed that champ will be able to take mele and also ranged weapons from wargear sections which means that he might have access to some solid shooting weapons and also it means that wargear section is back! :geek: Also don't forget that have another dirty cheap troop choice(s). OK, who takes heavy weapons in their Chaos Space Marine squads? There is little point in it. "Oh we got the option" is a fun justification. How about this? Space Wolves "got the option" to have 4 hqs and "got the option" of a psychic power that can kill lots of dudes without offering up any kind of save-except "Deny the Witch". Plus they got loyalist options like Razorbacks, Land Raider crusaders and DROP PODS, and guys riding around on :): huge wolves that can rip the crap out of whatever they hit. I think their options are better than our options, and that's what disappoints me. Anyway, I don't think it's as doom and gloom as the Dark Angels book. They don't seem to be trying to cut back on options and special rules, they're not trying to oversimplify or streamline, just reign in overall power level & points efficiency. I can live with that. I could have lived with it better if they had done it with the Eldar codex, or the Dark Angles codex personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biaz Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Also, Abaddon is even more killy now. 4A base, +1 for 2 specialist weapons, +2 on charge, so it's 7+D6 S5 AP2 with deamon weapon or 7 S8 AP3 shred! This got my attention. Why is his lightning claw so crazy now? And how come his 'most powerful Daemon weapon" so mediocre? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 OK, who takes heavy weapons in their Chaos Space Marine squads? There is little point in it. "Oh we got the option" is a fun justification. How about this? Space Wolves "got the option" to have 4 hqs and "got the option" of a psychic power that can kill lots of dudes without offering up any kind of save-except "Deny the Witch". Plus they got loyalist options like Razorbacks, Land Raider crusaders and DROP PODS, and guys riding around on :D: huge wolves that can rip the crap out of whatever they hit. I think their options are better than our options, and that's what disappoints me. Who took heavy weapons in 5th with old chaos dex? Would be better question as we don't know much. Single heavy weapons in squad are better in 6th (easier to snipe from dev squads, can move others and let heavy stand still, snap shot options, people are less hiding in metal bawkses and so on) and frankly I took them in 5th too as I like having my squads universal, and it was cheaper than havoc heavies. Also we don't have to take up elite slot to get champ, have fliers, anti-air defense, 110 pts mastery 3 lever psykers, more viable assault/jump infantry/bike/AP3 rapid fire/T5 FNP/exteme shooty units, oblits, cheap walkers with huge amount of firepower or assault capacity, more customisable troops/dreads, extreme cheap troop choice and it also seems more viable dreads, options to customise and build VERY powerful lords. I am sure I forgot something and most of the things has not been revealed yet, but you get the picture :P. And we also have better things from FW. And again, we could compare Blood Claws versus standard marines, I wonder how that would turn out... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 New Daemon Engines? Great...so my army gets a little more Iron Warriors with merc warbands and a little less jumble of warbands. Cult troops are Elites, unless with a Marked Lord? No worries here. Cultists? Hurray for my human mercenaries. New Daemon Engines...did I mention that already? That Warpsmith looks very nice indeed. Oh yes...and of course there are those Daemon Engines. But all this pales into insignificance next to the one question plaguing my mind. I must know...what about Daemon Princes? Can they have guns? Better armour that 3+? Stats? Can the Boon-a-Prince be upgraded or it it standard? For the love of Tzeentch I must know!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Uh guys, I would not compare it just like that, because CCWs are bought/swapped PER MODEL, not for entire squad there is room from customisation. Also don't forget our champ is cheaper, is auto included (so automatically 1 point better leadership than gh, which can be further improved + you gain hatred against ALL loyalist SM) and doesn't take up 2nds specialist weapon slot + option to take heavy weapons. + for point cost of current MoCG they have fearless now. OK, who takes heavy weapons in their Chaos Space Marine squads? There is little point in it. Well considering snap fire now and the option of cheap bolter marine campers I'm pretty willing to take a heavy bolter or autocannon w/ my CSM. But then snap fire has become one of my favorite rules and has worked very well in my favor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Edited due to double post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 ^ From what we've seen floating around, it looks like Daemon Princes are crazily upgradeable, but come in at incredibly prohibitive points costs because of it. From what I can gather, they have access to both "Chaos Rewards" and "Chaos Artefacts." Not sure what that entails, other than a mention in White Dwarf which states they can carry Daemon Weapons again! Also, they can upgraded to level 3 psykers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Yep, It looks like our towering once-Lords of Chaos are back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Also, Abaddon is even more killy now. 4A base, +1 for 2 specialist weapons, +2 on charge, so it's 7+D6 S5 AP2 with deamon weapon or 7 S8 AP3 shred! Wonderful! Is it a confirmed "rumor"? Now that's a model I like to have as warlord :D Any info on his Invul save? Is it a 4++ save or does he get a better one ( like a 3++)? Uh guys, I would not compare it just like that, because CCWs are bought/swapped PER MODEL, not for entire squad there is room from customisation. Also don't forget our champ is cheaper, is auto included (so automatically 1 point better leadership than gh, which can be further improved + you gain hatred against ALL loyalist SM) and doesn't take up 2nds specialist weapon slot + option to take heavy weapons. + for point cost of current MoCG they have fearless now. OK, who takes heavy weapons in their Chaos Space Marine squads? There is little point in it. Well considering snap fire now and the option of cheap bolter marine campers I'm pretty willing to take a heavy bolter or autocannon w/ my CSM. But then snap fire has become one of my favorite rules and has worked very well in my favor. I'm building a standard "tactical" Chaos Space Marine squad right now and I wonder what would be the most versatile heavy weapon? Heavy Bolter, Autocannon (with a small conversion) or Missile Launcher? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Also, Abaddon is even more killy now. 4A base, +1 for 2 specialist weapons, +2 on charge, so it's 7+D6 S5 AP2 with deamon weapon or 7 S8 AP3 shred! Wonderful! Is it a confirmed "rumor"? Now that's a model I like to have as warlord ;) Any info on his Invul save? Is it a 4++ save or does he get a better one ( like a 3++)? Yeah, it's on leaked codex photos. It's little sad that now choses with which weapon he hits, but sheer number of attacks is enough to kill almost anything, and this change wasn't unexpected. Still has 4++, his warlord trait is Black Crusader. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biaz Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Also, Abaddon is even more killy now. 4A base, +1 for 2 specialist weapons, +2 on charge, so it's 7+D6 S5 AP2 with deamon weapon or 7 S8 AP3 shred! Wonderful! Is it a confirmed "rumor"? Now that's a model I like to have as warlord ;) Any info on his Invul save? Is it a 4++ save or does he get a better one ( like a 3++)? Yeah, it's on leaked codex photos. It's little sad that now choses with which weapon he hits, but sheer number of attacks is enough to kill almost anything, and this change wasn't unexpected. Still has 4++, his warlord trait is Black Crusader. :) Aww man, they've gotta release a new model for him! I MUST HAVE! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Also, Abaddon is even more killy now. 4A base, +1 for 2 specialist weapons, +2 on charge, so it's 7+D6 S5 AP2 with deamon weapon or 7 S8 AP3 shred! Wonderful! Is it a confirmed "rumor"? Now that's a model I like to have as warlord ;) Any info on his Invul save? Is it a 4++ save or does he get a better one ( like a 3++)? Yeah, it's on leaked codex photos. It's little sad that now choses with which weapon he hits, but sheer number of attacks is enough to kill almost anything, and this change wasn't unexpected. Still has 4++, his warlord trait is Black Crusader. :) Well they still good news. If you charge a unit of PA marines you don't have to risk a roll of 1 for the Daemon Weapon because you can kill them with the Talon (rerolling failed rolls to wound). Beside I suppose he has Veteran of the Long War, thus hate all loyalist SM. If I'm not mistaken the rule says the model reroll every failed roll on the first turn of CC not just to hit/wound. Black Crusader means he and the other units get Preferred Enemy: Space Marines, rerolling 1s in shooting and CC. Useless against other armies but there are 6 loyalist Space Marine armies ;) EDIT: Aww man, they've gotta release a new model for him! I MUST HAVE! It seems we won't get a new Abbadon soon. Not on Oct 6th, that's for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It seems we won't get a new Abbadon soon. Not on Oct 6th, that's for sure. Building a good looking Abbadon is actually quite easy if you use the plastic terminator chaos lord set and use some components from the Abbadon pack. On the expensive side though. Also, why the heck will we still be paying 5 points more for flamers/plasma guns and meltas then loyalist. FU GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Well considering snap fire now and the option of cheap bolter marine campers I'm pretty willing to take a heavy bolter or autocannon w/ my CSM. But then snap fire has become one of my favorite rules and has worked very well in my favor. I'm building a standard "tactical" Chaos Space Marine squad right now and I wonder what would be the most versatile heavy weapon? Heavy Bolter, Autocannon (with a small conversion) or Missile Launcher? Personally I'd go with the heavy bolter or autocannon, b/c you can't snap fire the frag, just the krak, and more shots means a higher chance of hitting with snap fire. Personally thinking of trying melta + heavy bolter, the first for tanks, the second for anti-infantry. Mind I'm still iffy on that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It seems we won't get a new Abbadon soon. Not on Oct 6th, that's for sure. Building a good looking Abbadon is actually quite easy if you use the plastic terminator chaos lord set and use some components from the Abbadon pack. On the expensive side though. That's my plan. :) I can re-use Abaddon's body for a standard Terminator/ TDA champion or even Sorcerer. EDIT: Well considering snap fire now and the option of cheap bolter marine campers I'm pretty willing to take a heavy bolter or autocannon w/ my CSM. But then snap fire has become one of my favorite rules and has worked very well in my favor. I'm building a standard "tactical" Chaos Space Marine squad right now and I wonder what would be the most versatile heavy weapon? Heavy Bolter, Autocannon (with a small conversion) or Missile Launcher? Personally I'd go with the heavy bolter or autocannon, b/c you can't snap fire the frag, just the krak, and more shots means a higher chance of hitting with snap fire. Personally thinking of trying melta + heavy bolter, the first for tanks, the second for anti-infantry. Mind I'm still iffy on that. Beside I should have other anti-vehicle dedicated weapons/units in the army. Do you think the Heavy Bolter is truly better than Autocannon? I think I'll give a plasma gun to one the marines. Meltagubn will make a huge difference if the armored target is within 6" while plasma can threat heavy infantry and light vehicles (actually up to AV 12/13) within 24". Missile Launcher should be interesting on Havocs since it seems they will get the flakk upgrade... Goodbye Necron and IG flyers ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It seems we won't get a new Abbadon soon. Not on Oct 6th, that's for sure. I think I saw rumors of forgeworld model (for new HH releases) that looked like Abbadon. Building a good looking Abbadon is actually quite easy if you use the plastic terminator chaos lord set and use some components from the Abbadon pack. There was an outstanding Abbadon conversion from terminator lord some time ago, sadly, can't find it now :) . Maybe anyone remember it - his right hand was greenstuffed so claws bend like fingers (yeah, I know, great description) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It seems we won't get a new Abbadon soon. Not on Oct 6th, that's for sure. I think I saw rumors of forgeworld model (for new HH releases) that looked like Abbadon. It should be a "mini diorama" of a duel. I don't know if Abaddon's model pose will allow us to put it on a 40mm base and still get a good looking position outside the diorama itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biaz Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Building a good looking Abbadon is actually quite easy if you use the plastic terminator chaos lord set and use some components from the Abbadon pack. There was an outstanding Abbadon conversion from terminator lord some time ago, sadly, can't find it now ;) . Maybe anyone remember it - his right hand was greenstuffed so claws bend like fingers (yeah, I know, great description) I know the one you're talking about, I was actually looking for it earlier today :) He had the (sanguinary guard?) helmet in his hand. Maaaaaaaaan, I was so jealous... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 The Easiest Abaddon Conversion, requires purchase of both abaddon and a plastic termie lord, so not cheap. I did something similar to this for mine. The Best Abaddon Conversion. Seriously, this thing looks . Requires way more conversion and sculpting skill than I can process, but if you ever wanted some inspiration... honestly, I'm happy Abaddon is looking functional on the field (though points efficiency remains to be seen), but I can't help be a little disappointed by the weapons. The talon of horus is a lightning claw, not a power fist, it shouldn't double strength. On the other hand, Drachnyen is the sword that shattered the gates of the Kromarch's palace. Strength Five is absolutely pathetic for it. I miss the fluffy old 3.5 ed rules, where he made most his attacks with a lightning claw, and then had one super attack with the sword that auto penned/wounded with instant death. As it is, the strength of the sword & claw should be swapped around. Eh, whatever, it's not a big deal and doesn't make him bad on the table, it just doesn't quite feel right, fluff wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Someone said in this thread that Berzerkers only had +1A when assaulting with the Rage,...but Rage gives +2A... SO yeah they get 4A when assaulting, and they have 3 when assaulted, oh just like now!, but they get to reroll assault distance with the icone!, and AP4, wich even against marines isn't awesome but against blobs of 50+ Guards/Orks is fantastic! I know a few players who plays their GI's/Orks with massive amounts of Guards/Boyz, so this will be good... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Found it! http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...t&p=2651984 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 The Best Abaddon Conversion. Seriously, this thing looks . Requires way more conversion and sculpting skill than I can process, but if you ever wanted some inspiration... This is truly amazing. Sadly I think I don't have the sculpting abilities required for such converstion. I don't even think to have all the required bits. Mixing Old Abaddon with the plastic TDA seems the best course of action, for me of course :pinch:. Strength Five is absolutely pathetic for it I agree. I think Horus talon doubles the S even in the incoming HH FW books so I think they wanted to use the same mechanics (even though it's AP2 in the FW book, if I'm not mistaken) Drachnyen is now a common daemon weapon. Personally I would make it the most destructive of the two weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261565-new-chaos-and-you/page/5/#findComment-3184969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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