New chaos and you

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Wow, those conversions are great, there's another Abbadon conversion which is my personal favorite http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.p...ck-Legion/page9

Between them they have me wanting to try converting Ahriman, even though I love his model, I want to try it.

Any word on everyone's favorite Chief librarian apart from giving us infiltrate (which if inferno bolts remain unchanged, should be priceless.)

[Attomsk]

It is kind of odd, I am sitting here having no idea what I am going to do with my army. I really hope the codex arrives ASAP! Perhaps I'll be running my guys as orange plague marines with zombie cultists... or maybe Abaddon will come lead with some chosen. I may just go for a daemon engine heavy build with a WarpSmith... must get codex!

[Sception]

Personally I would make it the most destructive of the two weapons.

 

I just miss the old 'one bonus attack at init one, no armor save, instant death, and automatically wounds or penetrates whatever it hits. That was a sword to fear, one that you could really imagine Abaddon waging an entire crusade just to obtain, a sword you could imagine shattering meter thick adamantine gates.

 

The generic daemon weapon rules are good, don't get me wrong. AP2 at init, with potentially a bunch of extra attacks? Yeah, that's fantastic. But considering that ye olde bog standard daemon weapon isn't much different from that, and considering that it couldn't dent adamantine plating no matter how long you beat at it and Abby would have been better off pounding on those gates with the talon, well it just doesn't have that 'wow' factor I would have expected. I would have rather had something less good, but more impressive, if you get what I'm saying.

[Ace Debonair]

Personally I would make it the most destructive of the two weapons.

 

I just miss the old 'one bonus attack at init one, no armor save, instant death, and automatically wounds or penetrates whatever it hits. That was a sword to fear, one that you could really imagine Abaddon waging an entire crusade just to obtain, a sword you could imagine shattering meter thick adamantine gates.

 

The generic daemon weapon rules are good, don't get me wrong. AP2 at init, with potentially a bunch of extra attacks? Yeah, that's fantastic. But considering that ye olde bog standard daemon weapon isn't much different from that, and considering that it couldn't dent adamantine plating no matter how long you beat at it and Abby would have been better off pounding on those gates with the talon, well it just doesn't have that 'wow' factor I would have expected. I would have rather had something less good, but more impressive, if you get what I'm saying.

 

Have the sword counts-as the claw in a melee and vice versa? :lol:

[Lord Ragnarok]

OK, who takes heavy weapons in their Chaos Space Marine squads? There is little point in it. "Oh we got the option" is a fun justification. How about this? Space Wolves "got the option" to have 4 hqs and "got the option" of a psychic power that can kill lots of dudes without offering up any kind of save-except "Deny the Witch". Plus they got loyalist options like Razorbacks, Land Raider crusaders and DROP PODS, and guys riding around on : huge wolves that can rip the crap out of whatever they hit.

The grass is not always greener. Also, have you actually read the new codex cover to cover and implemented them in several games?

[Feste]

Regarding the Daemon Weapons, have you noticed that White Dwarf mentions that Princes can take them? That's not a bad option on a flying MC. Maybe a bit expensive, but who cares? +D6 WS9 attacks is fun.

 

I also just noticed that Faeit are claiming Bikers can take Daemonic steeds. That's an interesting choice, which makes the new Battleforce weirdly useful and irrelevant.

[Cmdr Shepard]

OK, who takes heavy weapons in their Chaos Space Marine squads? There is little point in it. "Oh we got the option" is a fun justification. How about this? Space Wolves "got the option" to have 4 hqs and "got the option" of a psychic power that can kill lots of dudes without offering up any kind of save-except "Deny the Witch". Plus they got loyalist options like Razorbacks, Land Raider crusaders and DROP PODS, and guys riding around on : huge wolves that can rip the crap out of whatever they hit.

The grass is not always greener. Also, have you actually read the new codex cover to cover and implemented them in several games?

 

Well I suppose he was just complaining about Space Wolves and their overpower psychic power :)

I do believe that power is a too overpowered. A wound with no armour save would be fair enough but an about 100 pts model that can kill 3-4 times its cost models with just a LD roll is undeniably overpowered, especially when you have to remove your 250 pts HQ or if you have low I models (orks and necrons; just to mention two of them)

 

Regarding the Daemon Weapons, have you noticed that White Dwarf mentions that Princes can take them? That's not a bad option on a flying MC. Maybe a bit expensive, but who cares? +D6 WS9 attacks is fun.

 

I also just noticed that Faeit are claiming Bikers can take Daemonic steeds. That's an interesting choice, which makes the new Battleforce weirdly useful and irrelevant.

 

Yes I did and I find it very interesting. DPs are dangerous on their own, add +d6 attacks.. ;)

 

Wait a moment... WS9?! Will they change CSM DP stats?

[Feste]

According to Faeit: WS9 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I8 A5 Ld9 5++. So significant boosts to WS and I, and an extra attack. The LD drop is weird, so I wonder if it's a mistake. Or maybe all wrong.

 

I shudder to think how many attacks a Khornate Prince is going to be. Actually they all sound nasty, I half suspect dual Princes will remain just because they're that good. But I also would expect a hefty price rise if any of this is true.

[Cmdr Shepard]

According to Faeit: WS9 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I8 A5 Ld9 5++. So significant boosts to WS and I, and an extra attack. The LD drop is weird, so I wonder if it's a mistake. Or maybe all wrong.

 

I shudder to think how many attacks a Khornate Prince is going to be. Actually they all sound nasty, I half suspect dual Princes will remain just because they're that good. But I also would expect a hefty price rise if any of this is true.

 

Impressive, most impressive.

Too bad for the T5 and Ld 9 but I8 means they will attack before nearly every other opponent (a part from charging banshees, some DE character, quicksilver GK)

[Iron Sage]

According to Faeit: WS9 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I8 A5 Ld9 5++. So significant boosts to WS and I, and an extra attack. The LD drop is weird, so I wonder if it's a mistake. Or maybe all wrong.

 

I shudder to think how many attacks a Khornate Prince is going to be. Actually they all sound nasty, I half suspect dual Princes will remain just because they're that good. But I also would expect a hefty price rise if any of this is true.

 

The thing costs 145 points before upgrades and must be marked(said MUST and not may)The stats are correct, including the LD drop (probably because Kelly wants your lord to be the Warlord I guess).But more so, the DP does not come with power armour.Its an upgrade, costing I think something like 30 points. Also wings cost 40 from the scan I saw.

 

Only thing that can save it from becomming so expensive that it is unfieldable is if those daemon weapons and gifts it can take are super duper fantastic.

 

Anyway, we`ll see.

[Panda_]

I shudder to think how many attacks a Khornate Prince is going to be. Actually they all sound nasty, I half suspect dual Princes will remain just because they're that good. But I also would expect a hefty price rise if any of this is true.

 

DP won't suffer from lower Ld, they are daemons (thus fearless). But our Sorcerors are pushed towards beeing better spellcasters. Especially with the "affordable" Lvl3, and even if they loose 1WS, 1BS, 1W, 1I, 1A and their 5++, they'll be better psykers than the loyalists (without taking Disciplines into consideration).

 

DP will now be different from our Lords and Sorcs as they can't cast as easily as Sorcs, they won't change FOC like Lords. But they still be Combats Monsters. Btw, with their old stats, krak grenades where killing them (not to mention DE and thundercats).

[Iron Sage]

According to Faeit: WS9 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I8 A5 Ld9 5++. So significant boosts to WS and I, and an extra attack. The LD drop is weird, so I wonder if it's a mistake. Or maybe all wrong.

 

I shudder to think how many attacks a Khornate Prince is going to be. Actually they all sound nasty, I half suspect dual Princes will remain just because they're that good. But I also would expect a hefty price rise if any of this is true.

 

Impressive, most impressive.

Too bad for the T5 and Ld 9 but I8 means they will attack before nearly every other opponent (a part from charging banshees, some DE character, quicksilver GK)

 

Minimum something like 200 with wings and mark but without armour, so not that impressive. We need to see the deamon armoury rules to see if this,at all, can be worth it I think.

[Ammonius]

If that DP statline is confirmed, then slow and purposeful for Nurgle DP's is even worse. I8 fir sweeping advance will be so tasty.

[Feste]

I shudder to think how many attacks a Khornate Prince is going to be. Actually they all sound nasty, I half suspect dual Princes will remain just because they're that good. But I also would expect a hefty price rise if any of this is true.

 

DP won't suffer from lower Ld, they are daemons (thus fearless). But our Sorcerors are pushed towards beeing better spellcasters. Especially with the "affordable" Lvl3, and even if they loose 1WS, 1BS, 1W, 1I, 1A and their 5++, they'll be better psykers than the loyalists (without taking Disciplines into consideration).

 

DP will now be different from our Lords and Sorcs as they can't cast as easily as Sorcs, they won't change FOC like Lords. But they still be Combats Monsters. Btw, with their old stats, krak grenades where killing them (not to mention DE and thundercats).

That idea about the Sorceror/Prince comparison is actually pretty neat. It was LD9 on a Fearless model that was confusing me.

 

Ammonius: Shrouding a Flying Nurgle DP makes it a little nicer.

 

Still, with the cost it sounds like their trying to differentiate it from the other HQs. Yep, it's awesome but you're going to struggle getting in anything less than a large match.

[Iron Sage]

If that DP statline is confirmed, then slow and purposeful for Nurgle DP's is even worse. I8 fir sweeping advance will be so tasty.

 

It is. Scans were out all around the internet last night. We know both stats and cost of the DP now, but not what kind of daemonic upgrades it can take. It does look as if it will cost around 230-300 if you want it very tooled out though. So not exactly cheap...

 

On the bright side though. We do now have a very cheap basic sorceror osting only 60 points! Only 2 wounds though. +25 points per extra mastery lv, so 85 points for a naked lv 2 psyker. Sorceror, warpsmith and dark apostle are all 2 wounds. lords 3. DP 4.

[Cmdr Shepard]

According to Faeit: WS9 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I8 A5 Ld9 5++. So significant boosts to WS and I, and an extra attack. The LD drop is weird, so I wonder if it's a mistake. Or maybe all wrong.

 

I shudder to think how many attacks a Khornate Prince is going to be. Actually they all sound nasty, I half suspect dual Princes will remain just because they're that good. But I also would expect a hefty price rise if any of this is true.

 

Impressive, most impressive.

Too bad for the T5 and Ld 9 but I8 means they will attack before nearly every other opponent (a part from charging banshees, some DE character, quicksilver GK)

 

Minimum something like 200 with wings and mark but without armour, so not that impressive. We need to see the deamon armoury rules to see if this,at all, can be worth it I think.

 

I was talking about its stats. The combat pontential is impressive. I was not talking about the cost/effectiveness ratio.

[Iron Sage]

According to Faeit: WS9 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I8 A5 Ld9 5++. So significant boosts to WS and I, and an extra attack. The LD drop is weird, so I wonder if it's a mistake. Or maybe all wrong.

 

I shudder to think how many attacks a Khornate Prince is going to be. Actually they all sound nasty, I half suspect dual Princes will remain just because they're that good. But I also would expect a hefty price rise if any of this is true.

 

Impressive, most impressive.

Too bad for the T5 and Ld 9 but I8 means they will attack before nearly every other opponent (a part from charging banshees, some DE character, quicksilver GK)

 

Minimum something like 200 with wings and mark but without armour, so not that impressive. We need to see the deamon armoury rules to see if this,at all, can be worth it I think.

 

I was talking about its stats. The combat pontential is impressive. I was not talking about the cost/effectiveness ratio.

 

I agree that the potential is impressive. I was just mentioning it since it did appear that some people did not know of the massive price jump in terms of points :)

[Brother Ambroz]

Hot damn, I'm glad my DP is now a WIP now that I've seen those rules. I'm ready and willing to pay a hefty price for a badass daemon prince like these.

[Cmdr Shepard]

According to Faeit: WS9 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I8 A5 Ld9 5++. So significant boosts to WS and I, and an extra attack. The LD drop is weird, so I wonder if it's a mistake. Or maybe all wrong.

 

I shudder to think how many attacks a Khornate Prince is going to be. Actually they all sound nasty, I half suspect dual Princes will remain just because they're that good. But I also would expect a hefty price rise if any of this is true.

 

Impressive, most impressive.

Too bad for the T5 and Ld 9 but I8 means they will attack before nearly every other opponent (a part from charging banshees, some DE character, quicksilver GK)

 

Minimum something like 200 with wings and mark but without armour, so not that impressive. We need to see the deamon armoury rules to see if this,at all, can be worth it I think.

 

I was talking about its stats. The combat pontential is impressive. I was not talking about the cost/effectiveness ratio.

 

I agree that the potential is impressive. I was just mentioning it since it did appear that some people did not know of the massive price jump in terms of points :)

Indeed. :)

 

I'm sure it will need many playtests to discern its cost/effectiveness ratio, like many of the new Codex units I suppose..

[KBA]

Something tells me the LD9 on the prince is to avoid it being the warlord when another HQ is chosen along with it. Those personal traits look pretty tasty on a tooled up prince.

[Iron Sage]

Dear treatcherous ladies and despicable men, loyal servants, sons and dauthers of the runinous powers all; this is an important and very interesting link for you !:lol: : http://fromthefang.blogspot.de/2012/09/mor...codex-pics.html

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

So Sorcerers are now WS4, BS 4, W2, I4,A2? Great, as if thousand sons needed another kick in the balls, we really needed are HQ nerfed, yes they are cheap, but when Thousand sons seem to be the one cult unit that did not get a pts decrease, that does not help at all, the fact we rely on our sorcerers for combat, yeah....

with the new perils of the warp and only 2w, our sorcerers will be lucky to see turn 4, just great.

I do love the artwork in it, especially the cult stuff.

[Killax]

Great art pieces, again a codex well worth it for players who can enjoy it.

Again I like the Berserkers.

 

Cheers,

[Feste]

Dear treatcherous ladies and despicable men, loyal servants, sons and dauthers of the runinous powers all; this is an important and very interesting link for you !:) : http://fromthefang.blogspot.de/2012/09/mor...codex-pics.html

Awesome dude, cheers! It's shaping up to be a mighty pretty codex (for certain values of 'pretty' ;) ).

 

I notice that Sonic Blasters are Salvo 2/3 Bolters ignoring cover. I quite like that, they're a pretty nice anti-horde unit killing around 10 Orks a turn when stationary. It helps give them a real niche for themselves.

 

 

So Sorcerers are now WS4, BS 4, W2, I4,A2? Great, as if thousand sons needed another kick in the balls, we really needed are HQ nerfed, yes they are cheap, but when Thousand sons seem to be the one cult unit that did not get a pts decrease, that does not help at all, the fact we rely on our sorcerers for combat, yeah....

with the new perils of the warp and only 2w, our sorcerers will be lucky to see turn 4, just great.

I saw at Faeit that Tzeentchian Sorcerers will unlock Rubrics. Not a massive thing, but it helps keep the flavor. Also, the psychic powers themselves sound quite a bit better now.

 

Edit: Just thought, do you still have to pay for the sorcerer? A lot of the sergeants are now included in the cost, so you might find the points drop is in the initial purchase.

[Killax]

So Sorcerers are now WS4, BS 4, W2, I4,A2? Great, as if thousand sons needed another kick in the balls, we really needed are HQ nerfed, yes they are cheap, but when Thousand sons seem to be the one cult unit that did not get a pts decrease, that does not help at all, the fact we rely on our sorcerers for combat, yeah....

with the new perils of the warp and only 2w, our sorcerers will be lucky to see turn 4, just great.

I saw at Faeit that Tzeentchian Sorcerers will unlock Rubrics. Not a massive thing, but it helps keep the flavor. Also, the psychic powers themselves sound quite a bit better now.

 

Edit: Just thought, do you still have to pay for the sorcerer? A lot of the sergeants are now included in the cost, so you might find the points drop is in the initial purchase.

 

I am quite sure all the Chaos Space Marines dropped a bit in price and thus in power but making it all the more playable.

 

Cheers,