Chaos Release and EC

[Sersi]

Well, from Warseer a guy with scans of the codex had this to say:

 

Noise Marines:

 

4 + Noise Champion: 95 pts

Additional Noise Marines: +17 pts

 

 

Wargear:

 

 

 

Power Armor

Bolter

Bolt Pistol

Frag & Krak Grenades

 

 

*Any model may take a CCW + 2 pts

 

 

 

Sonic Weapons:

 

 

Sonic Blasters: +3 pts

 

* any model may upgrade their bolter to a Sonic blaster

 

Doom Siren: +15 pts

 

* the Noise Champion may take a Doom Siren.

 

Blastermaster: +30 pts

 

* if the squad number at least 10 models one may upgrade their bolter to a Blastermaster.

 

 

Icon of Excess:

 

- FNP +40 pts

 

 

Slaanesh Marked Units:

 

 

Chaos Marines 15 pts

Terminators 35 pts

Obliterators 74 pts

Havoks 15 pts

[Sersi]

If true it looks like salvo wasn't the end of our nerfing.

[Lepaca]

Well NM + blaster is 5 points cheaper than it is now (3 if you add in the additional CCW) so that's a good thing.

However 1 Blast Master / 10 models sucks. And the Icon might be too expensive.

No other options for the Champion? Can't really believe that.

[th0r]

Actually that seems a pretty reasonable cost, compared to the price of a normal tactical squad. I'm initially thinking of a 12 man squad w/ 6 sonic blasters, blastmaster, doom siren, pw. Pretty decent jack of all trades type troop choice. Also, considering a BA priest is 50pts, 40 for the icon isn't to bad.

[Sersi]

If true it looks like salvo wasn't the end of our nerfing.

 

Sorry I didn't include them, as their were no real details yet.

 

 

Noise Champion options:

 

- They can take options from the two different armory lists.

- They can pay to roll on the "Boon of the Gods" table before deployment.

[Sersi]

Actually that seems a pretty reasonable cost, compared to the price of a normal tactical squad. I'm initially thinking of a 12 man squad w/ 6 sonic blasters, blastmaster, doom siren, pw. Pretty decent jack of all trades type troop choice. Also, considering a BA priest is 50pts, 40 for the icon isn't to bad.

 

 

I was thinking a 12 man gun line as well, 11 sonic blasters and the blastmaster. I wouldn't take the anything but the sonic blaster on the champ though, also no CCW, and icon. They seem pointless when I can just shoot the other guy to death. Basically, were locked into being a super shooty gunline army. You can toy with assault but its a poor use of points.

 

 

On the costs I have to disagree:

 

- While a Sang priest cost 50 pts, you get a character, 2 attacks, and special weapons options for just 10 pts more.

- Also the Sang priest can "look out Sir" to avoid sniping, while an icon bearer is like a radioman in Nam.

- The blastermaster costs 30 pts, tacticals get a plasma cannon for +5 pts, and lascannon for +10 pts; I know what I'd rather have.

- Also we lost the ability to take the blasmaster w/ our sacred number.

[th0r]

I've always used NM units as an assault force, but rather than a force such as a jump pack BA army (what I played in 5th) which are dedicated assault, NM (which I played in 4th) allow you to pick and choose your battles because of the fire power your pouring out en route to the assault. All be it you are paying a premium for the flexabilty of the blastmaster, as well as being able to instant kill toughness 4 characters, but all in all I like it. My last point on the priest is pretty half hearted but they tend to rack up in points quickly for any equipment, while you can give them a combi weapon for 10pts as you said, its not really worth it. They're already 75pts with a jump pack and just the one wound, although I admit I haven't played under 6th yet with Look Out Sir, but in 5th I always kept him out of combat.

 

Looks like it will be worth it to take snipers against CSM for sure though. Will be interesting to see how icon bearers survive in practice against precision shots.

[Lepaca]

Noise Champion options:

 

- They can take options from the two different armory lists.

- They can pay to roll on the "Boon of the Gods" table before deployment.

 

The armory lists are the big unknown up to now. The stuff in there could be really good.

The Boon table on the other hand for +10p is a :cussing joke.

[Noctus Cornix]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on your comment that assault would be a poor choice. This is just my own personal reasoning, of course but, I think with the way 6th edition puts a heavy emphasis on characters, Emperor's Children match world eaters.

 

Despite the fact that, yes, we don't get WS 5 or 4 attacks or what have you. However, we do get to strike at initiative 5. This is a god send against other Marines, especially since furious charge got needed. When it comes to challenges, our champions will be able to butcher other champions before they can even react. Say you give your Noise Champion a power sword, he has 3 attacks (4 on the charge) that he can dump into an enemy champion. Now im now mathematician but that gives you a really good chance to kill them almost instantly. Now, regarding battling characters with more than 1 wound, most of them only have initiative 5 anyway so you'll still be able to strike simo and maybe get a hit in. The fact that you can kick almost any other basic character's ass, tied in with Boon of the Gods, makes Slaaneshi Marines a very viable close combat choice and with sonic blasters, like Th0r has said, you can pick your battles and weaken your enemy before getting in.

 

Just my two cents.

[Iron Sage]

And might I add that in any Emperors Children army, it would make rather sense to have Chaos Space Marine units with the mark of Slaneesh. Every Emperors Children marine doesnt have to fullfill the same role as Noise Marines, obviously I would really say.

 

They are cheaper and have a more specialized role now. Clearly they are better now that chaos space marines can take true marks that cannot be sniped.

[AekoldHelbrass]

Despite the fact that, yes, we don't get WS 5 or 4 attacks or what have you. However, we do get to strike at initiative 5. This is a god send against other Marines, especially since furious charge got needed. When it comes to challenges, our champions will be able to butcher other champions before they can even react. Say you give your Noise Champion a power sword, he has 3 attacks (4 on the charge) that he can dump into an enemy champion. Now im now mathematician but that gives you a really good chance to kill them almost instantly.

 

Not really. In 6th it's much harder to charge from Rhino, and not having jump pack means that you have bigger chance of being charged. From 3 attacks with power sword 1.5 hits, 0.75 wounds, and 0.5 passes FnP (if you're charged by BA). You can see for yourself that you don't stand a chance against multi-wound model.

[minigun762]

Well, this isn't quite the news I was hoping for. Seems NM are cheaper overall but we lose the flexibility of camping squads or multi purpose units.

[Noctus Cornix]

Despite the fact that, yes, we don't get WS 5 or 4 attacks or what have you. However, we do get to strike at initiative 5. This is a god send against other Marines, especially since furious charge got needed. When it comes to challenges, our champions will be able to butcher other champions before they can even react. Say you give your Noise Champion a power sword, he has 3 attacks (4 on the charge) that he can dump into an enemy champion. Now im now mathematician but that gives you a really good chance to kill them almost instantly.

 

Not really. In 6th it's much harder to charge from Rhino, and not having jump pack means that you have bigger chance of being charged. From 3 attacks with power sword 1.5 hits, 0.75 wounds, and 0.5 passes FnP (if you're charged by BA). You can see for yourself that you don't stand a chance against multi-wound model.

 

 

That was very obviously talking about other champions, sergeants characters.... I even mentioned multi-wound models as a separate entity later in my post.

 

Actually read the entire post next time.

[Emperors Immortals]

As a BA and WE player I can tell you that I5 is enough to rethink a charge if it could fail, and all armies are now buggered by assault from any closed transport.

 

Personally i think a LR full of PW MoS marines led by a good champ could be a real line breaker, with the raider for back up after the assault.

 

Also we can cover an advance using the new daemon engines, and basic CSM are very cheap and a great back up unit. I predict a very strong role for raptor/talons with MoS.

[minigun762]

I see MoS being useful for a variety of units and especially the new jump pack ones.

However I'm not sure if assault based NM will bring enough to the table. We lose assault sonics and so we are left to rely on doom siren. Luckily it is better on overwatch now.

[Rain]

Yes, I5 is a big deal, and in my opinion EC are better in combat than World Eaters now against MEQ. Charging, an EC champ with a sword expects to make 1 wound against another MEQ so on average he will kill the other sarge before he gets a swing.

 

I'm not going to do the math out as it requires annoying summation of binomials but intuitively he will kill the other guy ~60% of the time which takes your opponent's save denying sarge out right off the bat. Then all of your marines swing, again killing before the other guy can lift a finger and expecting to kill 2-3 more MEQ models. This really dilutes your opponent's ability to hit you back and puts you at a pretty big initial advantage.

[Emperors Immortals]

I mayor be wrong bit 3 mos w/ pw shoulde deal 4 meq wounds on a charge, with champ w siren a blastmaster and three-dimensional other bodies erre looking at roughly 7-8 wounds with only 3 being able to make a 3+ save, thats without bolters or extra ccw or support unirse, not to shabby :P p.s can someone run these numbers properly please?

[AekoldHelbrass]

I wonder, how many of you played with MoS in 5th edition? even charging BA assault squad with priest you have no chance of winning, they have 2 PW per squad and they simply don't care about 0.8 wounds you're able to inflict them.

 

Also, Doom Siren is great but with random charge distance I would not risk removing first 2-3 models and then failing charge because of it, so it's not a very good option, unless you arrived in LR in 2-3 inches from enemy.

 

I mayor be wrong bit 3 mos w/ pw shoulde deal 4 meq wounds on a charge, with champ w siren a blastmaster and three-dimensional other bodies erre looking at roughly 7-8 wounds with only 3 being able to make a 3+ save, thats without bolters or extra ccw or support unirse, not to shabby ^_^ p.s can someone run these numbers properly please?

 

Champion: 4 attacks - 2 hits - 1 wound (0.66 for FnP)

9 marines: 27 attacks - 13.5 hits - 6.25 wounds - 2 unsaved (1.33 for FnP)

So ON CHARGE you're dealing total of 2 wounds, you just don't stand a chance against close-combat units.

[Noctus Cornix]

I wonder if you realize that we are now in 6th edition now, not 5th edition. The game has changed. You know why sanguinary priests aren't so special? Because we can challenge that bastard and butcher him before his little cronies get a chance to use his FnP ability.

 

unless there is cover and drag grenades involved, our chaos Marines strike before theirs even get the chance to strike back. So how do we solve this problem of some pitiful sanguinary priest? He's a character so we just challenge him. If he accepts the challenge, my champion will get at the very least 3 attacks from his power blade and any that wound him will kill the bastard out right and its ap3 so he doesn't get armour saves or FnP. If he doesn't accept the challenge, then he just sits around and does nothing while my champion just kills more of his men. It doesn't matter what they do, we have the advantage?

 

Oh, the little blood angels have feel no pain? Icon of excess, so do we. And ours isn't on a character so he can't be singled out in combat and killed before it even matters. Not only that but we can now take veterans of the long war so we can get hatred space Marines. No matter how you slice it I think, this new edition belongs to the sons of Slaanesh.

[Emperors Immortals]

I do play Blood Angels and not many of us pack a priest into every squad, your looking at max 2 because there 50pts naked, and climbs to 100ish if you want something else besides fnp, though it does cover 6inches. BA advantage was RaS troops but i think we can have that now too with a few cheap upgrade (2ccw for 3pts, Long War for 1pts) and a icon (30pts).

 

Also, assault packs (talons or raptors) i think talons give the PW option which would make a 6 man unit strike 24 times base = 12 hits with PW (or LC) plus champs attacks directed at priest or hidden fist or whatever after MEQ saves were looking at about 6 wounds plus with hatred were looking at 7-8 all striking at I5 which is before any other MEQ unit. ;)

 

While not the best assault troops, and personally i thin kSlaanesh will be mid range with assault elements, we will be no slouch in CC, salvo or no. In fact I think perhaps us and PlagueMarines due to poison will be very attractive.

[Iron Sage]

I do play Blood Angels and not many of us pack a priest into every squad, your looking at max 2 because there 50pts naked, and climbs to 100ish if you want something else besides fnp, though it does cover 6inches. BA advantage was RaS troops but i think we can have that now too with a few cheap upgrade (2ccw for 3pts, Long War for 1pts) and a icon (30pts).

 

Also, assault packs (talons or raptors) i think talons give the PW option which would make a 6 man unit strike 24 times base = 12 hits with PW (or LC) plus champs attacks directed at priest or hidden fist or whatever after MEQ saves were looking at about 6 wounds plus with hatred were looking at 7-8 all striking at I5 which is before any other MEQ unit. :P

 

While not the best assault troops, and personally i thin kSlaanesh will be mid range with assault elements, we will be no slouch in CC, salvo or no. In fact I think perhaps us and PlagueMarines due to poison will be very attractive.

 

If nothing else, Slaneesh is always attractive :devil:

 

It`s kind of Its fortè ;)

 

Edit: Seriously though, I think Slaneesh is the new wine so to speak. Being forced to challenge and accept challenges makes that initiative very golden in so many ways.

[minigun762]

Champion: 4 attacks - 2 hits - 1 wound (0.66 for FnP)

9 marines: 27 attacks - 13.5 hits - 6.25 wounds - 2 unsaved (1.33 for FnP)

So ON CHARGE you're dealing total of 2 wounds, you just don't stand a chance against close-combat units.

 

I think the biggest challenge for MoS assault marines is going to be 2+ saves because most people will not be giving them axes or fists to waste their I5, so you're stuck beating on them hoping for lucky rolls.

 

Then again, one would assume that you wouldn't send them into combat against a superior HtH unit unless it 1) served some other purpose on the battlefield or 2) said unit had been weakened previously.

[AekoldHelbrass]

Because we can challenge that bastard and butcher him before his little cronies get a chance to use his FnP ability.

 

You cannot challenge concrete model, you're throwing challenge, and he can accept it onto sergeant.

 

my champion will get at the very least 3 attacks from his power blade and any that wound him will kill the bastard out right and its ap3 so he doesn't get armour saves or FnP.

 

You know, in 6th FnP works against AP3 weapons too, so as I showed before, being charged:

3 attacks - 1.5 hits - 0.75 wounds - 0.5 after FnP.

So at best you have 50-50 chance of killing sergeant. glorious victory indeed.

 

I do play Blood Angels and not many of us pack a priest into every squad, your looking at max 2 because there 50pts naked, and climbs to 100ish if you want something else besides fnp

 

I really suggest you to try it, Priest + Jump pack + PW, it's almost 100 points but that additional PW attacks will make you a victory against most foes.

And I totally agree that warp talons can maim anyone in CC, no arguing here.

[Stormbrow II]

Oh, the little blood angels have feel no pain? Icon of excess, so do we. And ours isn't on a character so he can't be singled out in combat and killed before it even matters

That bolded part shows up the flaw in your argument: as far as we can tell the Icon is given to a pleb and not a character so he can be sniped out with Precision shots and has no Lo,S roll to save him if he botches his save (assuming there is one) while the BA source of FNP has a 2+ Lo,S (assuming he's not involved in a challenge) which is a big difference.

 

its ap3 so he doesn't get armour saves or FnP.

The denial of armour saves I understand but what makes you think you get to deny FNP with AP 3 outside of inflicting ID?

[Panda_]

Oh, the little blood angels have feel no pain? Icon of excess, so do we. And ours isn't on a character so he can't be singled out in combat and killed before it even matters

That bolded part shows up the flaw in your argument: as far as we can tell the Icon is given to a pleb and not a character so he can be sniped out with Precision shots and has no Lo,S roll to save him if he botches his save (assuming there is one) while the BA source of FNP has a 2+ Lo,S (assuming he's not involved in a challenge) which is a big difference.

Refrain from wrong facts, check the leaks. Actually, you choose the icon bearer. That may be the Aspiring Champion or a simple dude of the team (and that didn't change, be it the gav dex or the new rumored one).

 

While we choose who bear the Icon, at the best we have a only 4+ LoS.