CitadelArmyGuy Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I'm nervous of using Dreadnoughts in 6th Edition. I'm so sad, because Dreadnoughts are one of my favorite models, and the fluff behind them (as well as the cinematics released from Dawn of War computer games) means the Dreadnought will always represent 'awesome' for me. :woot: Ever since I started playing 40k years ago, I wished a Dreadnought was a Monstrous Creature (like a Dreadknight is now) rather than a Walker. But... they ain't. 6th Edition did a lot to de-value Dreadnoughts. The one everyone always mentions first is that grenades hit versus WS now, rather than raw 6s. Meltabombs are the worst things here. But the one everybody misses is that Walkers are Vehicles, and vehicles don't score or even deny. Dreadnoughts are not Denial Units. So in a game where 5/6 missions are objective-based, and where Linebreaker can decide a game, I just get nervous about Dreadnoughts' current position in 40k. For example, I had a game where a Talon Dread charged a 30 Boyz Ork mob squatting on a objective. There was no Claw, so they had no way to hurt me (but couldn't fall back since they were fearless). I charged them Turn 3 (out of a Raven) and by Turn 5 I hadn't killed them all yet. Even though they were locked in melee, and the Dread was sitting on top of that objective, the Orks were still counting as "In Control" of that objective at the end of the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3188665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I'm nervous of Dreadnoughts in 6th Edition. I'm so sad, because Dreadnoughts are one of my favorite models, and the fluff behind them (as well as the cinematics released from Dawn of War computer games) means the Dreadnought will always represent 'awesome' for me. :o Every since I started playing 40k years ago, I wished a Dreadnought was a Monstrous Creature (like a Dreadknight is now) rather than a Walker. But... they ain't. 6th Edition did a lot to de-value Dreadnoughts. The one everyone always mentions first is that grenades hit versus WS now, rather than raw 6s. Meltabombs are the worst things here. But the one everybody misses is that Walkers are Vehicles, and vehicles don't score or even deny. Dreadnoughts are not Denial Units. So in a game where 5/6 missions are objective-based, and where Linebreaker can decide a game, I just get nervous about Dreadnoughts' current position in 40k. For example, I had a game where a Talon Dread charged a 30 Boyz Ork mob squatting on a objective. There was no Claw, so they had no way to hurt me (but couldn't fall back since they were fearless). I charged them Turn 3 (out of a Raven) and by Turn 5 I hadn't killed them all yet. Even though they were locked in melee, and the Dread was sitting on top of that objective, the Orks were still counting as "In Control" of that objective at the end of the game. :woot: Im suspicous of how "in control" you ever are of an objective when a dread is punching you in the face :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3188670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Im suspicous of how "in control" you ever are of an objective when a dread is punching you in the face :D HAHA! Oh I agree with you there, I agree. But unfortunately.... thems tha rulez! Dreadnoughts inflict zero effect on control or denial of objectives. I still manage to find useful ways to employ one or maybe even two Dreads in some of my lists though. They have their place, which is happier than being completely useless ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3188686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 For example, I had a game where a Talon Dread charged a 30 Boyz Ork mob squatting on a objective. There was no Claw, so they had no way to hurt me (but couldn't fall back since they were fearless). I charged them Turn 3 (out of a Raven) and by Turn 5 I hadn't killed them all yet. Even though they were locked in melee, and the Dread was sitting on top of that objective, the Orks were still counting as "In Control" of that objective at the end of the game. What other units could have tied up a 30 ork mob without any danger of retaliation? ;) Just a thought, was this a furioso or DC dread? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3188687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 What other units could have tied up a 30 ork mob without any danger of retaliation? ;) Agree with this ^ Dreadnoughts are excellent fixing units, especially against mass light infantry. And it was a Furioso with Talons versus those Orks I was talking about. Why? What are you thinking about? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3188692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 And it was a Furioso with Talons versus those Orks I was talking about. Why? What are you thinking about? The two extra attacks on the DC tend to add up. The orks had been less likely to hold after 4 assault phases vs a DC dread. The downside is of course that you have to take DC, and they don't fit in every list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3188712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohrtanc Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Ohrtanc, how well do podding Death Company Dreadnought's fare? I gather you pod them somewhere safe and place the Dreadnoughts in cover where possible? Nope, its quit the opposite. Most of the time my DCs are shocked with the second barrage of the drop pods, so there are allready 2 - 4 active Dreads and 1 Assault Squad. engaging the enemy in his deploymend zone. A Land Raider with DC Company who gets closer and 4 Dreads as backup. Most of the enemies (not all) are fixed on them, especially to the 2 - 4 active Dreads in there deplyoment zone. So I dont need cover for my DC Dreads. The only exception is when the enemy could shoot my DC Dreads in the back. Then I see that I have the Pod in my back to get a cover save. Dont forget! After disembarking you can walk 6 with your Dread. @CitadelArmyGuy I may be mistaken, but I thought models locked in combat can't hold anything?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3190136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I may be mistaken, but I thought models locked in combat can't hold anything?! Originally also what I thought. However, I scoured the new rulebook high and low for mention regarding this rule. Either it doesn't exist or I can't find it! Pages 122 and 123 are the only ones I can find that talk about holding objectives. Bottom-line: You must have a model from a scoring unit within 3" and the must be no enemy denial units within 3". That's it, as far as I can see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3190269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tear of the angel Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Dont forget! After disembarking you can walk 6 with your Dread The place I play tournaments at ruled that you have to be in base contact with the drop pods, since it says in the deepstriking rules section that you just disembark from deep striking transports. It's located on page 36 second paragraph from the bottom left hand side. This is also due to him thinking it's extremly abusive. I'm waiting for the Inat to come out to see what they say about it but he is also part of the Inat council. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3190310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Dont forget! After disembarking you can walk 6 with your Dread The place I play tournaments at ruled that you have to be in base contact with the drop pods, since it says in the deepstriking rules section that you just disembark from deep striking transports. It's located on page 36 second paragraph from the bottom left hand side. This is also due to him thinking it's extremly abusive. I'm waiting for the Inat to come out to see what they say about it but he is also part of the Inat council. Well the Inat FAQ is well know for some really 'questionable' calls. :) You have to wonder what about "disembark" (brb) and "disembark as normal" (codex) adds up to not making a normal disembark? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3190413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arryn Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Dont forget! After disembarking you can walk 6 with your Dread The place I play tournaments at ruled that you have to be in base contact with the drop pods, since it says in the deepstriking rules section that you just disembark from deep striking transports. It's located on page 36 second paragraph from the bottom left hand side. This is also due to him thinking it's extremly abusive. I'm waiting for the Inat to come out to see what they say about it but he is also part of the Inat council. Well the Inat FAQ is well know for some really 'questionable' calls. :D You have to wonder what about "disembark" (brb) and "disembark as normal" (codex) adds up to not making a normal disembark? Disembarkation is what it is, isnt it? 6 inch from transport? How can there be different rules for the same thing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3191364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I think that you should be disembarking 6" from the vehicle. It evens say that in the case of vehicles like the drop pod you can still disembark even though you moved at crusing speed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3191366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Yeah, drop pods say disembark - disembark is 6" . I think any ruling counter to this is done for personal reasons and should be subject to shame, ridicule and suspicion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3191443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tear of the angel Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 If you can point me to the page that says drop pods get to disembark 6 inches I would be extremly interested. He points out that when you are dismbarking from a transport you dismbark and then can make a normal 6 inch move, but if you go to the deep strike section it says that models dismbarking from a deepstriking vehicle you just disembark, but dosen't say anything about getting the six inch move. That's his argument anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3191472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 This is currently being discussed on Warseer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3193544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arryn Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Yeah, drop pods say disembark - disembark is 6" . I think any ruling counter to this is done for personal reasons and should be subject to shame, ridicule and suspicion. This. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3194270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arryn Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Yeah, drop pods say disembark - disembark is 6" . I think any ruling counter to this is done for personal reasons and should be subject to shame, ridicule and suspicion. This. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261608-furioso-and-furioso-librarian-in-the-new-edition/page/2/#findComment-3194271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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