New Thousand Sons

[Brother Nihm]

It warms my cold heart to see him finally being a MASTER sorceror rules-wise.

 

/stoked

[*Furyou Miko]

Oh, hells yes. :P

 

Well, my Ahriman counts-as, but there you have it.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I have the Ahriman model (which I got free at a games day ;)) and love it, but am going to try and make a modern model as well, am going to base on the guy with a hammer in the masters of the chapter set. I look forward to have Ahriman out psychic some puppies :P

[Iron Sage]

I seriously think that 2 blob units of 35 cultists of Tzeenthc and Thousand Sons in support, lead by Ahriman, is going to be very, very good. An elite unit of tzeentch termies lead by a sorcerer as the second HQ, would add nicely to that force.

 

With Inflitrating hordes of cultists and some Sons, you can really put the preassure on your opponent early.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

True, though I think having your cultist and heavy support stay on your objectives whilst your marine infantry infiltrates forward to put pressure on the enemy from the get go, it should hopefully mean they won't be able to take your objectives even if they manage to take out your assault.

How many Alpha legion players do you think are going to take Ahriman?

[Iron Sage]

True, though I think having your cultist and heavy support stay on your objectives whilst your marine infantry infiltrates forward to put pressure on the enemy from the get go, it should hopefully mean they won't be able to take your objectives even if they manage to take out your assault.

How many Alpha legion players do you think are going to take Ahriman?

 

Concerning the Alpha Legion players, I have to laugh and answer probably a lot! I see it representing his clearvoyance and sorcery when he represent the Sons though.

 

Concerning the objective holders, I have a some what different view. My personal history with the Thousand Sons is that I inherited my friends Thousand Sons army and therefore have been using them as allies to my iron Warriors "proper" force. I have found that they are the perfect objective holders personally due to their +4 invul and fearless, so I would rather actually use the cultists as expendable offensive units. Then again, you play Sons and dont use them like I do (I love taking 1 squad of them with a tzeenthcian daemon price and a possessed vindicator in Sons colours) , so you might see it very differently. Still, in my opinion, only plague marines are their equal as home objective keepers.

[Iron Sage]

I dont know if you guys have considered this, but Ahriman is able to infiltrate infantry D3 Infantry units as we all know, but did you all consider the fact that this also happens to mean that he infiltrates terminators and obliterators as well? Footlslogging terminators...

 

The more I look at Ahriman, the meaner he is.

[*Furyou Miko]

We were just discussing that. ^^

[Tremorion]

Ahriman sounds great but there are a couple of things bothering me:

 

1) What are his defences? If he is still T4, no Eternal Warrior he will still be very vulnerable to instant death (e.g. from power fists in those compulsory challenges).

2) What type of weapon is the staff? If it is still a force stave (i.e. AP4) he will struggle against power-armoured opponents.

[Hlakir]

If it is of concern you could always pick powers from Biomancy and hope for Iron Arm. Invisibility from Telepathy is a good one as well.

 

It's not really power- amoured opponents that is of concern (Instant Death and high number of attacks takes care of that), but the 2+ saves.

 

 

On the other hand.... you should probably try to avoid CC with him (that not what he's good at and probably not the unit he's with either).

 

 

And for a bit of possible fluff about the Infiltrate- thing..... do you guys remember the Psychic Power The Key?

[Iron Sage]

We were just discussing that. ^^

 

Sorry, I seem to have missed that, Miko.

 

Just thought I should lighten the mood, since you all seem a bit underwhelmed concerning your dear sons :D

I think that if you include cultists, they can be rather good in the new codex.

[Ardune]

Ahriman sounds great but there are a couple of things bothering me:

 

1) What are his defences? If he is still T4, no Eternal Warrior he will still be very vulnerable to instant death (e.g. from power fists in those compulsory challenges).

2) What type of weapon is the staff? If it is still a force stave (i.e. AP4) he will struggle against power-armoured opponents.

 

1) First, he is still T4 and and does NOT have Eternal Warrior. However, Biomancy is arguably the best discipline for him.

 

2) The Black Staff of Ahriman is an AP4 Force Staff (+2S & concussive) which allows him to use 3 witchfire powers a turn. Along with some Biomancy powers, he is very likely to become a beast in CC.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Ahriman sounds great but there are a couple of things bothering me:

 

1) What are his defences? If he is still T4, no Eternal Warrior he will still be very vulnerable to instant death (e.g. from power fists in those compulsory challenges).

2) What type of weapon is the staff? If it is still a force stave (i.e. AP4) he will struggle against power-armoured opponents.

 

1) First, he is still T4 and and does NOT have Eternal Warrior. However, Biomancy is arguably the best discipline for him.

 

2) The Black Staff of Ahriman is an AP3 Force Staff (+2S & concussive) which allows him to use 3 witchfire powers a turn. Along with some Biomancy powers, he is very likely to become a beast in CC.

:) Least "Champions of chaos" is not a complete screw over, if you ask me, loyalist marines should have it as honorable combat is their forte, whilst chaos marines is generally sneaky/backstabing/use minions (apart from Khorne marines) I'm still bummed about the lore of Tzeentch, as that looks set to hamstring our aspiring sorcerers, (who seem to cost the same, yet be worse, then HQ sorcerers) if we are going to have to give up the rule book lores, it should be for a whole lore, not half a one where each spell is "Meh" at best compared to the rulebook ones (Similar rule killed my WoC tzeentch army, flaming fire is fun, but when pretty much all your caster have it? Yawn.)

So it's brilliant Ahriman is now decent, just sad he has to be a crutch for us, I knew he did most of the work in the legion but seriously? :P

[*Furyou Miko]

The Lot of a Librarian is Not a Happy One _{(happy one)}

[Ardune]

Well, one of my sorc's is going to end up being a buff monkey for Ahriman, casting Boon of Mutation on him every turn. Both Iron Arm and Endurance can have him shrug off the Str4 hit. And Life Leech and Endurance have the potential of regaining lost HP's from both bad Boons and Perils. Although I might consider a Dark Apostle to "Beseach the Dark Gods" and reroll Spawn results.

 

With that said, I am also not a fan of the wargear-like psychic shooting powers of Tzeentch. But they are not too bad, Doombolt has a lot of potential.

 

However, I still plan on using Telepathy x2 on my allied IG's Primaris Psyker to take advantage of the Psyker Battle Squad. Still plenty of psychic potential to be had with the allies.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The Lot of a Librarian is Not a Happy One _{(happy one)}

Can someone remind the rune priests then? They shouldn't be so happy....

That is my main problem with the lore of Tzeentch in both 40k and Fantasy, they seem to think "Tzeentch=Gun", and so we got a lore that is almost entirely witchfire spell, and whilst yes we have the one guy that can use more then once, that is not good for anyone else. It also makes Aspiring Sorcerers feel not like psychics, but rather an overcosted Sergeant and heavy weapons trooper who will either fail and kill himself, or our heavy weapon equilivent fails because teh enemy thinks happy thoughts (Deny the witch should seriously been something only for psychers, faithfull or strong willed characters, as it guardsmen bob can somehow survive a fire ball to the face by not believing in it.) Let's not even go into what happens when Runes of warding or puppies holding sticks get involved, heres hoping we have some options for special/heavy weapons other then the Aspiring Sorcerer.

[*Furyou Miko]

Oh, gods, I know. It's just... not... gah.

 

Tzeentch! Is! Not! The! Boom! God!

 

What the hell happened to the liar, the changer of ways, the master of fate, the schemer? All of those things have awesome psionic potential!

 

But NO! The God of Magic apparently only likes spells that blow things up!!!! WHHYY?!??!?

[Iron Sage]

I agree about the Lore of Tzeentch actually, although I think the Primaris power is rather nice. A tad too much "boom" though, compared to transmutation

 

Just want to tell you that I am pretty sure that Sons champions can choose from pyro, bio, telikinesis and telepathy. I am pretty certain that I read that on their fluff-page profile. If I happen to be wrong, please forgive me.

[Ardune]

I'm not seeing anything on their fluff page profile. Ahriman's lists the 4 disciplines available to him but there is nothing on the 1kSons page (not even Tzeentch). My recommendation is to be prepared for our Asp Sorc's to only take 1 Tzeentch discipline. I'm hoping there's an option to upgrade them to ML2 but I think that's unlikely.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I had real hope after Dark eldar and Space wolves, instead it seems Kelly has done a half arsed job as if he was Ward and just made Chaos marines "Chaos warriors...in SPACE!"

[Iron Sage]

I had real hope after Dark eldar and Space wolves, instead it seems Kelly has done a half arsed job as if he was Ward and just made Chaos marines "Chaos warriors...in SPACE!"

 

I dont agree with this. I think you might be a bit blinded being dissapointed with the outcome of your beloved Sons (they didnt really change, although 6ed makes them better even without overwatch). Cultists will add nicely to the Sons and greatly aid them I suspect.

[meeper]

I dont agree with this. I think you might be a bit blinded being dissapointed with the outcome of your beloved Sons (they didnt really change, although 6ed makes them better even without overwatch). Cultists will add nicely to the Sons and greatly aid them I suspect.

 

I dont really agree with this, the only way to make an already an overpriced unit useful is to buy another unit to compliment it? Im not trying to be combative, im honestly disappointed with the love given to the other cult troops while the sons got nothing.

 

I feel like they didnt really let 1k sons take advantage of anything that makes shooting units more lethal in 6th, no overwatch, lack of options for additional weapons, they even shortened bolt of change range. From the looks of it they cant even take a spell from one of the awesome lores either. Hell, they cant even take divination, the lore that would make the sons a fantastic unit (ignore cover saves, reroll to hit, to wound etc).

 

I know the codex hasent even come out yet, but out of all the rumors we have heard thus far, none of them look to be in favor of the sons.

[Iron Sage]

I dont agree with this. I think you might be a bit blinded being dissapointed with the outcome of your beloved Sons (they didnt really change, although 6ed makes them better even without overwatch). Cultists will add nicely to the Sons and greatly aid them I suspect.

 

I dont really agree with this, the only way to make an already an overpriced unit useful is to buy another unit to compliment it? Im not trying to be combative, im honestly disappointed with the love given to the other cult troops while the sons got nothing.

 

I feel like they didnt really let 1k sons take advantage of anything that makes shooting units more lethal in 6th, no overwatch, lack of options for additional weapons, they even shortened bolt of change range. From the looks of it they cant even take a spell from one of the awesome lores either. Hell, they cant even take divination, the lore that would make the sons a fantastic unit (ignore cover saves, reroll to hit, to wound etc).

 

I know the codex hasent even come out yet, but out of all the rumors we have heard thus far, none of them look to be in favor of the sons.

 

I would agree if you by Sons mean an army consisting only of Sons (as in they are your only infantry), however I think Phil Kelly just gave you cultists which is rather fluffy IMO. I see the Thousand Sons more as a specialized force. They do well in fairly limited aspects of the game, but in my opinion, they excell in those aspects. But without support from other tactical elements, their limited role will make them "bad" obviously.

 

I realise you were speaking only of the Sons, but as I said, I do not view them as a good choice if they are by themselves. While I do think taking one or two squads in an army could be great.

 

Actually I think only Plague marines will be the cult army that you can field unsupported by other other infantry units. I am sceptical of an army consisting of only berserkers and I am sceptical of an army consisting only of noise marines, just I as I am sceptical of an army made up of only sons.

 

I think there is a reason why they are in the elite slot actually. They are special forces. A Landraider with Sons accompanying a sorcerer is going to be tough to dislodge after they have rapid fired/spelled you to death, taken your objective, and are now sitting there daring you to approach them. In this case, the +4 invul save would be nice, as in this instance you would be close to enemy siege weapons no doubt (given you are now in his deployment zone). That was just one and a very limited example though. I can think of several scenarios where the Sons can excell.

 

But alone unsupported ? I agree, then they are weak. But I dont think Phil Kelly intended them to be used that way. Cultists of Tzeentch I say, Cultists of Tzeentch ^^

 

Obviously, feel free to dissagree ;)

[Ardune]

As I see the rumors now, I am a bit let down. But there may be options that I am unaware of that change everything (but I doubt it). So, I'm going to reserve final judgement until the codex release and save any energy I'd put into shaking an angry fist at GW until if/when my fears are confirmed.

[*Furyou Miko]

Unless I can take the Mark of Tzeentch to get a Psyker cult-leader, I'm not even going to bother with them. According to the rumours, the best way to represent a pure 1ksons army on the battlefield is to play Necrons and take Blood Angel or Chaos Space Marine allies. BLOOD ANGEL, for crying out loud! Play Immortals/lychguard as Rubrics and Crypteks/courtlords as Aspiring Sorcerers. Ally in Mephiston as Ahriman, take a Furioso Librarian and then maybe an Assault Squad as raptors or a Death Company as junior sorcerers.