New Thousand Sons

[Rain]

Unless I can take the Mark of Tzeentch to get a Psyker cult-leader, I'm not even going to bother with them. According to the rumours, the best way to represent a pure 1ksons army on the battlefield is to play Necrons and take Blood Angel or Chaos Space Marine allies. BLOOD ANGEL, for crying out loud! Play Immortals/lychguard as Rubrics and Crypteks/courtlords as Aspiring Sorcerers. Ally in Mephiston as Ahriman, take a Furioso Librarian and then maybe an Assault Squad as raptors or a Death Company as junior sorcerers.

 

Well, according to the spiritual liege Blood Angels and Necrons are BFF's so it's all good. Seriously though, that is--wrong. I mean it's so confusing that I wouldn't agree to play against it and neither would a lot of people I suspect. Oh and the reason they are an elite slot is not that they are "special forces" Sage, it's that they are a cult troop. Cult troops in general tend to follow cult leaders, hence why a Tz lord makes them troops, cult troops still will follow leaders of other cults or undivided lords but it's a lot rarer (and probably involves difficult pacts etc) so they are elites. I honestly have no idea what Kelly did or didn't intend with them or any other unit. This codex feels really phoned in all around, he just moved some abilities around (FnP from Nurgle to Slaanesh) and didn't really change other things at all (1k Sons) or nerfed things slightly (zerks). On the plus side, running a terminator/obliterator heavy army with Ahriman could be potentially hilarious with infiltrating termies and deep striking oblits just swamping your opponent's deployment zone though it would of course involve a few lucky rolls making it not very dependable but that's what you get for serving a cowardly weakling like Tzeentch. Real men shove dental picks into their frontal lobes and go for it.

[Iron Sage]

Unless I can take the Mark of Tzeentch to get a Psyker cult-leader, I'm not even going to bother with them. According to the rumours, the best way to represent a pure 1ksons army on the battlefield is to play Necrons and take Blood Angel or Chaos Space Marine allies. BLOOD ANGEL, for crying out loud! Play Immortals/lychguard as Rubrics and Crypteks/courtlords as Aspiring Sorcerers. Ally in Mephiston as Ahriman, take a Furioso Librarian and then maybe an Assault Squad as raptors or a Death Company as junior sorcerers.

 

Huh?

 

Whats more fluffy as allies/force multipliers for the Sons than human cultist????

 

Your overreacting I think.

 

And Blood Angels and Necrons? Seriously?

[Iron Sage]

Unless I can take the Mark of Tzeentch to get a Psyker cult-leader, I'm not even going to bother with them. According to the rumours, the best way to represent a pure 1ksons army on the battlefield is to play Necrons and take Blood Angel or Chaos Space Marine allies. BLOOD ANGEL, for crying out loud! Play Immortals/lychguard as Rubrics and Crypteks/courtlords as Aspiring Sorcerers. Ally in Mephiston as Ahriman, take a Furioso Librarian and then maybe an Assault Squad as raptors or a Death Company as junior sorcerers.

 

Well, according to the spiritual liege Blood Angels and Necrons are BFF's so it's all good. Seriously though, that is--wrong. I mean it's so confusing that I wouldn't agree to play against it and neither would a lot of people I suspect. Oh and the reason they are an elite slot is not that they are "special forces" Sage, it's that they are a cult troop. Cult troops in general tend to follow cult leaders, hence why a Tz lord makes them troops, cult troops still will follow leaders of other cults or undivided lords but it's a lot rarer (and probably involves difficult pacts etc) so they are elites. I honestly have no idea what Kelly did or didn't intend with them or any other unit. This codex feels really phoned in all around, he just moved some abilities around (FnP from Nurgle to Slaanesh) and didn't really change other things at all (1k Sons) or nerfed things slightly (zerks). On the plus side, running a terminator/obliterator heavy army with Ahriman could be potentially hilarious with infiltrating termies and deep striking oblits just swamping your opponent's deployment zone though it would of course involve a few lucky rolls making it not very dependable but that's what you get for serving a cowardly weakling like Tzeentch. Real men shove dental picks into their frontal lobes and go for it.

 

Wait until you have read through the Codex, please. Every other Codex Kelly has worked on has turned out alright in the end. We`ll see. The FNP Icon for Slaneesh I whole heartedly support. I liked that change a lot! Fear while not a good abillity, also suits Nurgle 100% percent. As for Zerks, not sure they are nerfed- Lets wait and see what they actually cost. One shouldnt ignore the chain axes and the VotLW upgrade either.

 

As for Ahriman, he sounds ridiculously powerful to be honest. Him and Typhus both.

[Rain]

While I strongly disagree that that particular setup is more fluffy, I think her point is that Thousand Sons feel nothing on the tabletop like they do in the fluff. The powers are all basically guns and the Sons themselves go down to bolters just as easily as normal marines. It's a clunky short range shooting army, whereas it should be a finesse army that relies on interesting psychic powers that do things other than just shoot at short range and creative unit synergy going with the whole puzzle pieces coming together type theme of Tzeentch followers in general. In other words, it should be kind of like Craftworld Eldar but with marines. Specialists, unit synergy, and interesting powers. As it is, that doesn't really work.

[Iron Sage]

While I strongly disagree that that particular setup is more fluffy, I think her point is that Thousand Sons feel nothing on the tabletop like they do in the fluff. The powers are all basically guns and the Sons themselves go down to bolters just as easily as normal marines. It's a clunky short range shooting army, whereas it should be a finesse army that relies on interesting psychic powers that do things other than just shoot at short range and creative unit synergy going with the whole puzzle pieces coming together type theme of Tzeentch followers in general. In other words, it should be kind of like Craftworld Eldar but with marines. Specialists, unit synergy, and interesting powers. As it is, that doesn't really work.

 

Oh, I know well what she meant and felt (I am not that tick :blink: ), but she is dramatically overreacting just like a very few others on the forum.

 

As to the rest, I actually agree totally! Thats how they SHOULD be if all was perfect. However, I think thats way, way too much to demand from a codex that combines legions and renegades, that it also has Ulthwé marines to boot!

[Souba]

so as aspiring champions are only psyker level 1 now and have to take the lore of tzeentch they can only get 2 powers apart from the primaris one. doombolt and boon of mutation.

 

doombolt is nice but i dont understand the hate on boon of mutation. its a fairly effective spell if you look at the full rules of it.

 

it targets a friendly character in 2" range... the target immediatly rolls on the table okay you can only buff characters with it. wich is sucky but well it still got its uses.

 

as i play my lists most of the time with 2 units of sons a prince (and i will still play a big kitted deamonprince as i play with fluffy list mostly) and probably given the points even another sorceror i thought about some sort of pre-fight buffing for my daemon prince.

given the terrain and if i rolled boon of mutation i could put my daemon prince, my two aspiring champions and maybe the sorcerer aswell close to the prince.

at my turn 1 i can use it at the start of the movement phase with my prince and all sorcerors who rolled the ability all targeting the prince. granting him some additional special rules, stats etc.

the strength 4 hit is not so harsh on him and he can gain some really nice abilitys and then start flying over to the enemy in following turns he can still buff himself up if he rolled the ability aswell.

 

sure its not gamebreaking but this ability still got its uses especially the increase in the armor save... couple that with the rerollable 1's from daemon of tzeentch and he will dish out pain if there is not a AP 2 weapon in the enemy unit.

[*Furyou Miko]

^^; Yeah, there may have been a little hyperbole mixed in with a lot of six AM bile and RL stress in my last couple of posts on the subject.

 

What's honestly, probably going to happen? I'll get the book, smile at my collection of converted Tzeentch worshippers and carry on playing Sisters.

[Iron Sage]

^^; Yeah, there may have been a little hyperbole mixed in with a lot of six AM bile and RL stress in my last couple of posts on the subject.

 

What's honestly, probably going to happen? I'll get the book, smile at my collection of converted Tzeentch worshippers and carry on playing Sisters.

 

Nah, girl. You should at least try fielding them ^^

 

After all, you play sisters. Its not as if Sisters is the most OP army available, so if you can manage wins with them, I am pretty sure indeed that your Tzeentch force will do alright :)

 

Remember, its not all doom and gloom. Try fielding Ahriman and use that infiltrating abillity! Also, you surely agree that cultists are a very fluffy addition to the Sons?

 

In any case, I sincerly hope you seek to field them. Me myself, I have Iron Warriors and a Thousand Sons army, and I would sincerly like to discuss and debate Thousand Sons tactics and utillity on this forum, so I hope you do not all run away due to initial dissapointment :)

 

 

Ps. There might also be some snacks in that chaos armoury we have yet to see ^^

[Rain]

Sisters are actually a surprisingly viable army. They just play awkwardly just like all short range shooting armies but if you get it down it works well and it tends to blindside a lot of people since it's almost certainly the rarest army due to the expensive models, low visibility, and odd fluff. Tzeentch Chaos on the other hand is a crap army and will likely remain that way. I'm not sure why you are so dead set on sugarcoating it but it's true. That said, you can still pull of casual games against other themed armies and people that just buy one of each cool looking unit. But who am I to talk, it's not like World Eaters are very good (though they used to be fairly viable in 5th) and I still love my crazy critters.

[Iron Sage]

Sisters are actually a surprisingly viable army. They just play awkwardly just like all short range shooting armies but if you get it down it works well and it tends to blindside a lot of people since it's almost certainly the rarest army due to the expensive models, low visibility, and odd fluff. Tzeentch Chaos on the other hand is a crap army and will likely remain that way. I'm not sure why you are so dead set on sugarcoating it but it's true. That said, you can still pull of casual games against other themed armies and people that just buy one of each cool looking unit. But who am I to talk, it's not like World Eaters are very good (though they used to be fairly viable in 5th) and I still love my crazy critters.

 

Point is that I am interested in discussing and debating tactics and strategies for lists including the Sons. I am fully aware that they are not exactly the best available tournament list, to put it like that. It works though, and I suspect it also work a lot better now with tzeentch daemon allies (rather I know).

 

No one here seems interested in that though. This section of the forum looks like Whineseer at the moment, and I find it terribly unconstructive and rather tedious, and frankly this is half of the reason why I am seeking to "sugarcoat" them as you say. I knew of good players that made tzeentch work (and its hardly true what you say, since tzeentch daemons are among the top tier of armies at the moment, though of course this is not the same as the Sons, but Tzeentch even so) very well in 5ed when I went to university a few years back.

People here seem to have very little immagination though, and no one seems at all interested in even discussing ways to make Tzeentch lists flow with more synergy. Just pathetic whining and wishlisting and nothing much constructive at all. Dissapointing.

 

I also happen to think that you are deadset on ignoring the 6ed changes to the rules, with decreased cover saves, which is a much greater asset to a Sons unit than the loss of overwatch is painful. The worst is in any case the failure to sweeping advance, not overwatch. In general 6ed makes the Sons better, not worse. They also get hatred to marines, which granted, is no big deal since you dont want them in CC in the first place, though this again is sometimes not to be avoided, and the sorcerer is likely to do quite well against marines in a duel.

 

 

And Sisters is, as far as I know, not exactly considered a top tier force (I hardly said they were not effective), which is why I said what I said to Miko.

 

Edit: Having said that, is it likely that its easier for me to rack up wins with my Iron Warriors? Yes, and I know this very well. I still think a list including Ahriman, cultists, obliterators, Sons and other elements can be effective. Would I like to field a "pure" Sons army consisting of only Sons? No, but I dont think this is how they should be played in any case, so that point is moot.

[Rain]

I'm not talking about top tier. Again, I play themed lists. I played pure undivided and mono-nurgle and mono-khorne during the Gavdex. I played a close combat Dark Eldar army. I don't compete at a high level. But Thousand Sons aren't just not top tier, they are simply bad. Even in casual settings they don't do that well. As for Tz daemons, that much is true. I suppose a Tz daemon list with some Thousand Sons along for the ride could work well, no argument there though I'd consider that a daemon list not really a CSM one. As for why people are are acting like "Whineseer" it's because we expected new and interesting changes to our army, you know, like what everyone else got. Instead we got a rehash of what was already one of the most hated codices in the history of the game with just a few new options that are interesting at all. Again, not asking for top tier performance, just for builds that feel feel effective and powerful even if they have too many counters to be considered good in the metagame.

[Iron Sage]

I'm not talking about top tier. Again, I play themed lists. I played pure undivided and mono-nurgle and mono-khorne during the Gavdex. I played a close combat Dark Eldar army. I don't compete at a high level. But Thousand Sons aren't just not top tier, they are simply bad. Even in casual settings they don't do that well. As for Tz daemons, that much is true. I suppose a Tz daemon list with some Thousand Sons along for the ride could work well, no argument there though I'd consider that a daemon list not really a CSM one. As for why people are are acting like "Whineseer" it's because we expected new and interesting changes to our army, you know, like what everyone else got. Instead we got a rehash of what was already one of the most hated codices in the history of the game with just a few new options that are interesting at all. Again, not asking for top tier performance, just for builds that feel feel effective and powerful even if they have too many counters to be considered good in the metagame.

 

This is almost laughable. Have you not seen the leaks? Have you not seen the "interesting changes" to our army? Seriously? What did YOU except? Did you think that all our units would be fundamentally different? If so, why the hell would you want that? We already know we`re getting our dear armoury back, I call that a pretty NICE change! Of course there will be units that are less effective than others in general. Its like that in every single codex ever written as far as I know.

I too secretly hoped for Legions. I found out a couple of weeks ago that this was not to be. It hardly feels as if the sky is falling even so, haha! The new codex looks a millions times more customizable (and as you should really know, there is power in customization) compared to the ultra boring Gav Thorpe streamlined-like-hell-codex.

Our HQs looks for the most parts to be way better, and they finally DO something to their forces (you might have noticed that almost all of the chaos only warlord traits are pretty good). No more double daemon prince with wings, which was pretty damn unfluffy and damn sad to see being spammed around. Hopefully daemon princes will still be viable, though we cannot yet say since we have not seen the armoury yet. I think they will be good, but very expensive personally. Too expensive for 2 of them below 2K points, which is really kind of nice to be honest.

Again, customization. There are so many tricks you can pull with the correct upgrades. Let us wait and see if I am right here. If I am dissapointed after having actually read the codex, then I will submit to your Cult of Negativity and become one of the sad members, but I sincerly don`t want to do that, and thankfully, I see enough from the leaks to belive that we will have access to very many interesting lists compared to the old bad dex...

You gain nothing by being as pessimistic and unreasonably negative like you have chosen to be. Apparantly, you dont look for options (as In how can I best use this unit, and with which units would it have the best symmetry and how should I seek to field it), but only "errors".

 

As for the Sons, they will never be Plague Marines. Then again, Plague Marines will never have the abillity to spam 2-3 Tzeentchs Firestorm either (which is a way better spell than some of you realise, even though it might scatter like any other blast template). Are Plague Marines generally a better unit? Yes. They are way less specialized. Far easier to use. IMO they are therefore also less interesting as well.

And if you cannot see that Sons have been buffed in 6ed, then I dont know what to say. Sons have the same issues as in 5ed, but 6ed finally made their Invul save damn good, while also buffing their AP 3 bolters for the same reasons (obviously they pay for this in points, this is a 6ed codex after all, which some do not seem to realise). There is also the fact that they gain Hatred versus loyalists and they are still fearless. You might have also noticed that in 6ed they can actually move with Slow and Purposeful. They are so incredibly much better in 6ed, and for some absurd reason, this is completly ignored.

Do I think they might be conservativly costed? yes, I happen to think that they could have been a point less, maybe even two, but what is certain is that they are now way better than before, while costing the same and while they are hardly awesome, they do not "suck" (you should really try playing with them instead of making theories about how they cannot function, before you can say they "suck")

 

Anyway, I hoped this thread would be one to discuss how best to use them. Instead, some people, obviously you included, are seeking to derail it into something utterly uninteresting, i.e. senseless whinining without any constructive advice what so ever.

 

I hope we are finished now and that the thread can some how get back on track. I am here to discuss tactics, tricks and future lists and how to use Sons in armies. I have 0 interest in crying and complaining because I did not get Codex Iron Warriors or Codex Thousand Sons. Doing that won`t help my future Iron Warriors or Thousand Sons lists at all, and it will CERTAINLY not make me a better or more immaginative player.

[Rain]

Yeah, real laughable. Let's count our new and interesting options.

 

Dinobots: This one I grant, these are pretty cool and other than the ugly models are pretty much what I wanted to see all around, not gamebreaking or overpowered but interesting and potentially effective.

 

Warp Talons: CC raptors that might blind something after they deep strike and before they are shot to death. Goodie.

 

Muties: T4 for 55 points a piece that can only have CC weapons. Goodie.

 

Warpsmith: Alright I guess.

 

Dark Apostle: Basically a chaplain transplant long after chaplains were nerfed into pure support units. Goodie.

 

Berzerkers: Nothing to make up for the transport and furious charge nerfs, also worse in ensuing rounds of combat than they used to be but cheaper. Meh.

 

Plague Marines: Worse but cheaper.

 

Noises: Better.

 

1kSons: Better but still trash.

 

Prince: I actually like the changes here, very expensive but high stats, as Chaos HQs should be, I'm not complaining about this one even if it lacks EW.

 

The rest is pretty much the same. What was I expecting? Oh I don't know, something characterful and actually customizable? I mean what can we do now? Choose a power sword on our champions versus a what? Seriously with forced challenges it's not too much of a choice, but I guess you can take an axe and cross your fingers or something. But here's some specific things: Marines riding juggers/seekers/etc since for Chaos thins actually makes sense unlike Thunderpuppies. How about unique rules like Khorne striking with axes in Initiative order or Tzeentch being able to shroud their units or teleport out of combat or something? Just fluffy imaginative stuff, or at least stuff that not every other army also has like "a unit with poisoned weapons" and "a unit with furious charge" and "a unit with feel no pain". It's formulaic and trite and gives nothing to mark us out other than the gifts table which I admit it at least a step in the right direction though 2 tables one with bad results for a lost combat and one with good for a win would have felt a lot more "right" in my opinion as well as actually incentivizing good play.

[Iron Sage]

Yeah, real laughable. Let's count our new and interesting options.

 

Dinobots: This one I grant, these are pretty cool and other than the ugly models are pretty much what I wanted to see all around, not gamebreaking or overpowered but interesting and potentially effective.

 

Warp Talons: CC raptors that might blind something after they deep strike and before they are shot to death. Goodie.

 

Muties: T4 for 55 points a piece that can only have CC weapons. Goodie.

 

Warpsmith: Alright I guess.

 

Dark Apostle: Basically a chaplain transplant long after chaplains were nerfed into pure support units. Goodie.

 

Berzerkers: Nothing to make up for the transport and furious charge nerfs, also worse in ensuing rounds of combat than they used to be but cheaper. Meh.

 

Plague Marines: Worse but cheaper.

 

Noises: Better.

 

1kSons: Better but still trash.

 

Prince: I actually like the changes here, very expensive but high stats, as Chaos HQs should be, I'm not complaining about this one even if it lacks EW.

 

The rest is pretty much the same. What was I expecting? Oh I don't know, something characterful and actually customizable? I mean what can we do now? Choose a power sword on our champions versus a what? Seriously with forced challenges it's not too much of a choice, but I guess you can take an axe and cross your fingers or something. But here's some specific things: Marines riding juggers/seekers/etc since for Chaos thins actually makes sense unlike Thunderpuppies. How about unique rules like Khorne striking with axes in Initiative order or Tzeentch being able to shroud their units or teleport out of combat or something? Just fluffy imaginative stuff, or at least stuff that not every other army also has like "a unit with poisoned weapons" and "a unit with furious charge" and "a unit with feel no pain". It's formulaic and trite and gives nothing to mark us out other than the gifts table which I admit it at least a step in the right direction though 2 tables one with bad results for a lost combat and one with good for a win would have felt a lot more "right" in my opinion as well as actually incentivizing good play.

 

Indeed quite laughable considering your bizarre addiction to spreading negative propaganda about a Codex you have yet to actually properly read. Stop it already, as you are not contributing with anything constructive at all. This was supposed to be a thread debating the new Thousand Sons, not some toilet for you to sit on.

 

Plague Marines worse but cheaper??? First of all they are better but 1 point more expensive as far as I know.

And marks and icons clearly makes us different I would say. As for customization, you well know that everything that has so far leaked points to far greater customization and far less streamlining, so i dont know how your even able to say something like that.

As for the raptors, you forgot to add that the ordinary raptors are cheaper. As for Warp Talons, they are 30 points, but comes with L claws. I am slightly sceptical, but I think it can work.

The warpsmith is obviously very good.

Apostle is a bit underwhelming to me, but he is still a very much unknown due to the fact that the chaos armoury has not yet been leaked (as you well know, i might add, although you speak as if you have seen it already and that everything in it sucks :/)

Mutilators: Underwhelming.

Fiends: Both have their uses. They are also very different. I really like these.

Unlike you, my only dissapointment so far has been with Possessed and Mutilators. Possessed are better than before, but still seem very underwhelming unless i am missing something about them.

 

I guess unlike you, I never expeced, nor even wanted, the units we already had to fundamentally change. I wanted them to become way more customizable and cheaper for the most part. Frankly, I wanted them to have more options. I wanted there to be way more lists available than 2 winged DP, zerker, plague, oblit spam. To me, it seems as if the codex will give us this.

 

But lets end this please. This has been derailed by this nonsense enough. There are threads in Chaos Ascendant where you can list the Codex deficiences. Try posting in that sterling topic (heavy sarcasm) called "we are now the new tyranids" or something, and contribute with your positivity there.

[GunnerRed]

I'm quite hopeful with the new codex, with cultists which are quite fluffy, for all chaos armies really and can have marks, Obliterators can have marks now (if rumours are true) so you can use terminater sorcerers to repersent them better, tzeentch daemons as allies which tzeentch daemons seem to be doing quite well (from what i heard the icons on the chaos space marines codex will help ally daemons from scattering).

Of course thousand sons aint going to be a top army but I think it will be a fun army (one of the reasons i play) with lots of ways to build, but we will just have to wait and see when we get the codex what rumours where true and what army lists you can come up with.

Well thats my views of the new codex for the thousand sons from rumours ive heard and pics ive seen.

[Zeratil]

There is now a copy of the codex FlOating aroUnd, you will be able to find it in the place that usually gets scans veRy quickly, if anyone wants to know anything from the Codex for their Tzeentch army I sHAll answer withiN the forum rules, but most of what has come out in the last few days is accurate.

 

Oh, and:

 

Oblits can have marks, none are ten points or more, MoT is the most expensive (a general theme for anything with an inv. save)

[Excessus]

Stop calling them dinobots! The person that came up with that extremely silly comparison should be murdered...slowly! And I mean

slowly! They don't even look at all like dinobots!

[RAWFIST]

Anyone know if you can make your combi-bolters AP 3 for your terminator squad? I like the idea of trying to make all bolt weapons AP 3 for 1k sons lists.

[Zeratil]

Afraid not, Inferno Bolts are Ahriman and Thousand Sons only.

[RAWFIST]

So no way to make the terminators 1k sons? Was thinking about converting some to fit in with an army of 1k sons I am building was hoping to get some kind of rules to make them gel with the army.

[Zeratil]

You can give them 4+ Invs with the MoT still, but other than that you can't make them more 'Rubricy' really. About the best you could do would be to put a sorcerer with a group of them and pretend combi-plasmas are inferno boltguns that stopped working properly.

[Ethrion]

I have to say that Thousand Sons and even a pure Thousand Sons army was never and still in 6th ed isn't "trash". 4 squads of relentless AP3 bolters with a force weapon and a psychic power in each. 2-3 squads of obliterators (counts as sorcerers), chosen squads with special weapons to outflank and a sorcerer or two with wings and wind of chaos, warptime or gift...turtle up and move around in one giant blue and gold brick of AP2/3 death

 

....trash?? I think not.

 

p.s. ally them now with daemons, especially screamers and you get some seriously horrendous goodness!

[Irbis]

I'm quite hopeful with the new codex, with cultists which are quite fluffy, for all chaos armies really and can have marks, Obliterators can have marks now (if rumours are true) so you can use terminater sorcerers to repersent them better, tzeentch daemons as allies which tzeentch daemons seem to be doing quite well (from what i heard the icons on the chaos space marines codex will help ally daemons from scattering).

Obliterators can have marks, but are trivial to ID with T4. I don't like cultists, I really hoped for Rubric army, but alas, it was not to be. I also hate armoury being back in the Codex, and overall, it feels like barely refreshed CSM 4th Ed book...

 

I have to say that Thousand Sons and even a pure Thousand Sons army was never and still in 6th ed isn't "trash". 4 squads of relentless AP3 bolters with a force weapon and a psychic power in each. 2-3 squads of obliterators (counts as sorcerers), chosen squads with special weapons to outflank and a sorcerer or two with wings and wind of chaos, warptime or gift...turtle up and move around in one giant blue and gold brick of AP2/3 death

 

....trash?? I think not.

*Points to Grey Knights* :)

 

One Force Weapon, you say? One Psychic Power that dies on Perils? Special weapons on special squads only?

 

...we know your pain Bro, our 3rd edition Codex sucked like this too :D

[Ethrion]

I have to say that Thousand Sons and even a pure Thousand Sons army was never and still in 6th ed isn't "trash". 4 squads of relentless AP3 bolters with a force weapon and a psychic power in each. 2-3 squads of obliterators (counts as sorcerers), chosen squads with special weapons to outflank and a sorcerer or two with wings and wind of chaos, warptime or gift...turtle up and move around in one giant blue and gold brick of AP2/3 death

 

....trash?? I think not.

*Points to Grey Knights* -_-

 

One Force Weapon, you say? One Psychic Power that dies on Perils? Special weapons on special squads only?

 

...we know your pain Bro, our 3rd edition Codex sucked like this too :(

 

I'm not comparing GK to TS though...whatever other codices get I don't have access to as a TS so it's immaterial

 

I'm just pointing out what TS do well and their plus points. Like I mentioned above....every weapon is either AP2 or 3 with the ability in the list to outflank and to threaten ICs with force weapons and a 4+ or 5+ inv on every model...it's not fool proof nor am I saying it's uber awesome but it sure ain't bad. Personally I've never thought the codex sucked.

 

And as an aside - I've gone toe to toe with GKs and matched up perfectly against them, all close games, some wins some losses but never hopelessly outclassed.

[Irbis]

I'm not comparing GK to TS though...whatever other codices get I don't have access to as a TS so it's immaterial

 

I'm just pointing out what TS do well and their plus points. Like I mentioned above....every weapon is either AP2 or 3 with the ability in the list to outflank and to threaten ICs with force weapons and a 4+ or 5+ inv on every model...it's not fool proof nor am I saying it's uber awesome but it sure ain't bad. Personally I've never thought the codex sucked.

 

And as an aside - I've gone toe to toe with GKs and matched up perfectly against them, all close games, some wins some losses but never hopelessly outclassed.

 

Eh, I didn't said they're outclassed, but compared to new GK, they're not Slow & Purposeful, they have S5 assault weapons which in most cases is better than AP3 bolters, Psycannons, every single one of them has power weapon, you don't lose your Psyker on one wound (or even unlucky bonus roll if you happen to kill some Sarge), etc. etc.

 

I love how Sons look, tried to play with them, but... Honestly, I think they are overpriced, and if someone good like Ward wrote the book, TS trooper would cost 20 points, Ahriman at best 200, there would be rubric Terminators, Havoks, and they would get some flavorful spells and gear. Now, there are barely any changes from 4th Ed Chaos :D

 

As it is, Ahriman has barely better statline than GK Paladin, which costs 5 times less, or SM Librarian, 2.5 times less. Yes, he is Psyker level 4, but he has only 4++ and no FNP, making him porcelain cannon. He is my favourite Chaos mini, I can't wrap my head how something costing the same as Land Raider has to fear fighting SM Sergeant with Power Sword - Magnus is apparently too cheap to give his Chief Librarian some Artificer gear or even stupid Iron Halo IoM seems to give like candy :)