CSM losing BP+CCW+Bolter

[Excessus]

What, we are loosing our base weapon loadout?

 

God... DAMMIT GW. I want to love you, and you are giving me a shiny new codex... But c'mon now...

No we are not! Try to read a bit will ya, it's still there though now you have to pay extra for it. The base marines are cheaper though so if you create a squad of 10 marines that is just like one of our current squads, they will only be 5p more expensive, but gains Hatred(Space marines) as well, which is very useful!

[Pariah Mk.231]

Clearly I've missed something, where is all this information coming from?

[Excessus]

Games Day UK yesterday. There is a thread on warseer.

[Hellrender]

also we now get to customise and redistribute our points better. If you need a cheap objective taker, that is not going to do much else (but no cultists :D) then you can take a base squad, and the points you save, can go to a squad that is going full offense, giving it a mark, ccw and veterans. Resulting in an overall same point costs (i think) while distributing the effectiveness a bit better.

 

Also, stop comparing Grey Hunters to CSM. Grey Hunters have their own dex, made in the Power Era of 5th, and if the new dexes follow the trend of Necrons, Dark Eldar and i think (hope) CSM, then it will all balance out after a while.

 

On top of that, Unit by Unit comparison is just plain bad. It all depends how a it synergises with the rest of the codex. Imperial Guard being the most obvious exampl of this, due to orders, but i can imagien most here know that a good codex wins by synergy, not by having 2 No brain OP units that you can spam, which is really no tactical brililance whatsoever.

[Iron Sage]

Well I will add CCW/Bolter where needed, but I am glad we got option to make them cheaper for not taking CCW (my havocs are definitely not getting one! :geek:) and I like that you can swap it model by model not per entire squad, those guys without extra weapon will be taking front ranks. :)

 

I agree!

 

Havocs seems a lot better now to be honest. You dont have to pay to make their gear and abillities equal to line infantry, so you save 2 points per model in many ways. Unless you for some reason want them in an offensive configuration though

 

Still slightly sad concerning the minor nerf to marines, but as they are more customizable than before, I think that actually may make up for it overall. Seems pretty balanced so far. Berserkers finally a lot cheaper (they were perfect in 5ed, but in 6ed they need to be cheaper or better to be viable), and even have the possibillity to take AP 4 weapons.

 

Typhus and his plague zombies seems like a new beastly Nurgle combo which we will see a lot of. Especially if its really true that plague zombies are still scoring. Thats some seriously cheap fearless FNP objective campers, and wouldnt it be fun to have 3-4 squads of 35 and just stop playing 40k and Night of the Living Dead instead, and just flood the board,hehe.

 

Mutilators sucks as much as their models, as they happen to be 55 points and not 35 points which I originally thought.

 

And Ahriman...Absolutely a rock star now that he has that fixed Warlord trait that makes him give 1D3 infantry units Infiltrate. With mastery 4 and the Infiltrate, as well as being cheaper than before, this guy is going to be very popular.

 

Special characters seem to DO something to your army now. Interesting...Earlier our special characters were just dumb brutes apart from Herr Bile, but he was overcosted again. So far, both Typhus and Ahriman are clearly much better than before.

[Trevak Dal]

Is there anything on Khârn, or Huron? And what about an Artificier armor equivalent?

[Sception]

Still slightly sad concerning the minor nerf to marines, but as they are more customizable than before, I think that actually may make up for it overall. Seems pretty balanced so far. Berserkers finally a lot cheaper (they were perfect in 5ed, but in 6ed they need to be cheaper or better to be viable), and even have the possibillity to take AP 4 weapons.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why we're looking at chaos marines getting effectively -1 leadership for the same points, when they already didn't look all that hot next to pretty much any other basic marine troop squad. It's not that I think they'll be unplayable, it doesn't make them bad, and the wealth of options certainly makes them more interesting than they were. But it's still certainly an unnecessary nerf, where a buff would not have been uncalled for.

 

Havocs seems a lot better now to be honest. You dont have to pay to make their gear and abillities equal to line infantry, so you save 2 points per model in many ways. Unless you for some reason want them in an offensive configuration though

Are the aspiring champions obligatory in havoc squads? If so, there goes some of that points efficiency you get by not buying close combat weapons. Still, they should be a bit cheaper even so.

 

Heavy support's still a big mystery to me. Oblits took a bit of a nerf, but can buy marks for T5 or 4++, which means a lot for them. The maulerfiend seems to be melee dread on steroids for a competitive points cost, and the defiler and forgefiend both offer some respectable firepower on a pretty sturdy body, if at a cost. And of course there's the tried and true predators and vindicators to consider. Definitely no shortage of options to consider, and I think it's too early to be calling out any clear winners.

 

Typhus and his plague zombies seems like a new beastly Nurgle combo which we will see a lot of. Especially if its really true that plague zombies are still scoring. Thats some seriously cheap fearless FNP objective campers, and wouldn't it be fun to have 3-4 squads of 35 and just stop playing 40k and Night of the Living Dead instead, and just flood the board, hehe.

Throw in some allied tally shenans and you've got a real handful going there. Typhus was already the big winner of the 6e sweepstakes as far as chaos special characters are concerned, and it seems Nurgle's favorite son will continue to wax strong through the new codex's tenure.

 

Mutilators sucks as much as their models, as they happen to be 55 points and not 35 points which I originally thought.

Well that's too bad. At 35 points apiece, I was getting ready to eat some crow when it comes to the muties. 55 points puts them square in the "laughably terrible" range I and some others had been predicting for them. Definite failures.

 

And Ahriman...Absolutely a rock star now that he has that fixed Warlord trait that makes him give 1D3 infantry units Infiltrate. With mastery 4 and the Infiltrate, as well as being cheaper than before, this guy is going to be very popular.

I can see a lot of 'counts as' in the Alpha Legion's future.

 

Special characters seem to DO something to your army now. Interesting...Earlier our special characters were just dumb brutes apart from Herr Bile, but he was overcosted again. So far, both Typhus and Ahriman are clearly much better than before.

It's a shame Chosen aren't anything more interesting than chaos marines that pay way too many points for an extra attack and the privilege of spending even more points on weapon upgrades, otherwise Abby might be looking pretty boss, too.

[Kol Saresk]

Where exactly is everyone seeing the new rules?

[Smurfalypse]

Where exactly is everyone seeing the new rules?

 

There are some pics in the new white dwarf and some pics from Games Day UK.

 

Thought i read in the WD they showed them at 35pts, at work so will check it tonight when i get home.

[Sception]

the picture I saw was pretty fuzzy, but they looked like 55 points to me. I hope they are 35 points - 35 points for 2 wound terminators would be nice even if they are limited to 3 per squad and lack any ranged weaponry. At 55 points, they're just completely outclassed by plain old terminators, which may have one wound less, but are much more versatile due to their ranged weapon options and have near about the same impact in close combat.

[Iron Sage]

I hope its 35 as well. But I sincerly doubt that, since the summary page of the Codex says they are 55( the summary page scan happened to be a very readable and good scan).

 

Also, Malisteen, havocs have to take the champ. its like with marines, 75 for 4+champ. But the havoc champ will have access to the chaos armory. I dont know whats there, but I guess we are talking about combi weapons and twin linked bolters etc.

 

Oh, and it seems as if almost every champ can take a roll on the fun but hardly game breaking Boon table for +10 points. This includes Thousand son sorceror, havoc champ, possessed, ordinary marine champ, zerker etc. I think it also includes the raptors, but I dont know that, I am just assuming since the rest can do it.

 

Someone asked for the Hades cannon. Its Heavy 4, STR 8, AP4, pinning.

[Sception]

It's a nice fun little thing, but I don't think the boon of mutation upgrade is at all worth it. 1/6 do nothing, 1/36 is worse than nothing, of the rest probably only about half will be useful to any given champion depending on what squad they're in, and less than half of those would make you feel justified in spending 10 points on the upgrade. Yeah, that 1/36 chance of daemonhood is nice, but I rather expect this rule in general to play out like it did in the white dwarf - not a single noteworthy result for the entire game despite taking the upgrade on several champs and winning a number of challenges, including some that the space marine player should have just refused anyway.

 

It's fine as a fluffy aesthetic thing, though it doesn't at all make up for the fact that we're forced into unfavorable challenges, and I certainly wouldn't consider it any kind of significant advantage for our faction.

[Xenith]

It's fine as a fluffy aesthetic thing, though it doesn't at all make up for the fact that we're forced into unfavorable challenges, and I certainly wouldn't consider it any kind of significant advantage for our faction.

 

What, that 1/36 time your aspiring champion turns into a daemon prince?

 

I'd say that's worth it.

 

My IW, like my Tzeentch warriors were maxed out for shooting and didnt take advantage of the EotG table. Looks like Im going to have to rejig the army...

[Iron Sage]

It's a nice fun little thing, but I don't think the boon of mutation upgrade is at all worth it. 1/6 do nothing, 1/36 is worse than nothing, of the rest probably only about half will be useful to any given champion depending on what squad they're in, and less than half of those would make you feel justified in spending 10 points on the upgrade. Yeah, that 1/36 chance of daemonhood is nice, but I rather expect this rule in general to play out like it did in the white dwarf - not a single noteworthy result for the entire game despite taking the upgrade on several champs and winning a number of challenges, including some that the space marine player should have just refused anyway.

 

It's fine as a fluffy aesthetic thing, though it doesn't at all make up for the fact that we're forced into unfavorable challenges, and I certainly wouldn't consider it any kind of significant advantage for our faction.

 

I dont think it will necesarilly be cost efficient either, but If you spend 40 points or so on 4 champs/lords, maybe one of them will get something really good. Its completly random. Tournament players are likely to avoid it I guess, but I think its so exciting that I am probably going to always buy it for my champs.Easilly explainable as bio mechanical modifications for my Iron Warriors, and for Sons it can be ruled as a spell effect et. Some of those abillities on that table are after all rather nifty, so it will sometimes be worth those 10 points and I am not only thinking about the daemon then!

 

And yes the challenge rules I dont like. But as I cant do anything about it, I am going to try to adapt I guess (almost all ofmy champs are modeled with Pfists, and I need change gear for them, since it wont be even possible to avoid those challenges anyways).