DavidKits Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I was looking over the white dwarf with a friend and the two of us decided to preform the 'squitting(sp) of eyeball death' move to try and read the stats of the soon to be released C:Chaos Space Marines on the entry of the Hellbrute. From what we both could find it costs the same points as a standard Imperial Dreadnought at 105 points but already comes without the combi-bolter(twinlinked bolter) mounted on the close combat arm which is called on it a power Fist and comes with a Multi-melta. so ... compared to the last starter box you get a dreadnought for the same points minus 1 gun.. as well as the options for weapons for the gun arm itself are additional power fist, Twinlinked Heavy bolter, Reaper Autocannon, Plasmacannon and a Twinlinked Lascannon Under the weapon upgrades it looks like it has an entry that seems to relate to a combi bolter for 5 points and a heavy flamer for 10... seems a little fishy to me that we have to pay for an upgrade that is already mounted on the loyalist version. I maybe wrong I don't know, trying hard to read it makes me go crosseyed after a bit but anyway, give me your advise and opinion, as I love my Dreadnoughts always did always do just find it odd they are going to be possibly much more expensive base then the loyalist ones to get the same wargear and the only upside is the new rage chart... o.o Cheers, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm a little confused by it myself. It being a powerfist, I'm guessing that makes it not a Dreadnought close combat weapon, so it wouldn't get the 2d6 penetration on the vehicle damage chart. Also, does it double their strength/raise it to 10? I'm guessing they're at least S5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm a little confused by it myself. It being a powerfist, I'm guessing that makes it not a Dreadnought close combat weapon, so it wouldn't get the 2d6 penetration on the vehicle damage chart. Also, does it double their strength/raise it to 10? I'm guessing they're at least S5. Power Fists double the S of the model (every model, walker included) so they strike with S10 at I4 (Walker and MCs are not affected by the unwielding rule). DCCW does not get 2d6 Armour Penetration. Chainfists roll 2d6 not DCCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Pfist & DCCWep are basically the same thing now, since walkers don't suffer from unwieldy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal.Lictor Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Looks like he is 13 AV as well, but again its too small to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Looks like he is 13 AV as well, but again its too small to tell. If that's true then they could actually come in handy at times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Looks like he is 13 AV as well, but again its too small to tell. I'm sure it's Side 12, Rear 10. That's quite clear but I cannot be sure about Front. Since Helbrutes are the "evolution" of Dreads I suspect they will be AV12 on front: that was what rumors suggested. If it actually AV13 I'll more than happy :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Almost positive it's 12. Interestingly enough for those with the old model, apparently their flails have rules again - same as a fist, but also reduces weapon skill of enemies in base. I wonder if I'll be able to work up the nerve to mess with the Dark Vengeance model.... Probably not. Then again, I do have that half started old FW dread conversion, maybe I'll work a flail arm up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I thought the AP values were different for DCCW and PF. I am without a codex to double check it. And does it not get the daemon rule that everything else in the bloody army gets? That 5++ would easily make up a point gap to loyalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnus Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What I am curious about is whether they can still take a missile launcher on the off hand. I hope so, as I have a few Forgeworld Dreads with that set up. Any info is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidKits Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 from looking at the white dwarf and seeing how similar it is to the starter box sheet on the hellbrute I'm sadly gonna say that its av 12 on the front *snaps fingers* though i admit 13 would be cool but hey i could be warn so i'll wait. though looking at it and the present dex just seems to show the Hellbrute to me got... beaten down a bit i mean sure the rage chart now only affects enemy models not ours... but ya have to be hit and damaged first before you can take 'advantage' of the rage chart... as for down i mean its attacks have been reduced to 2 instead of 3 like the last codex as well. :/ to me ... personally it almost sounds like they down graded it to make people switch to all the new shiny deamon engines. which are good don't get me wrong... i just like my old dreadnought to much to want to 'upgrade' to a what to me looks like a 40K version of a WoW Kodo mount without the ability to ride it :/ <.< anyone else notice that? cheers, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I doubt very much the intention was to downgrade something they just made a new mini for - they want people to want helbrutes because there's one in the starter (and I'd put money on there being a multipart kit at some point, when there's a second release wave) The fact that it has to be damaged before it flips out just makes it more reliable, and there's now no danger of it turning its guns on your own units. Depending on what you can upgrade it with, it's still got the potential to be a useful unit. It doesn't even compete with fiends for FoC space, being an elite choice. Don't give up on your old dread yet. I don't even think GW wants you to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 So we're still getting a new plastic dreadnought kit that isn't the DV hellbrute, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidKits Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 hmmm true kvlt you do have a point just seems that removing some stuff making it more points then a loyalist one i hope it has some interesting upgrades... though i admit my dread with autocannons getting dropped to reaper autocannon wasn't making me smile... i rather liked the 48 inch autocannon helping me for those long range pot shots that did wonders for me in many games. but hey again i may need to see the offical release to see what the upside to the hellbrute is. as for a plastic kit outside of the DV box... i personally don't overly see this happening but hey i can hope it does too! *nods* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbie Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If they do not release a seperate Hellbrute Kit how would we expand our numbers of them? Just use the old dreads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 That or forgeworld models or just pick up some more DV brutes off the secondary market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If they do not release a seperate Hellbrute Kit how would we expand our numbers of them? Just use the old dreads?We have a kit comin' in the 2nd wave according to latest rumours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbie Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If they do not release a seperate Hellbrute Kit how would we expand our numbers of them? Just use the old dreads?We have a kit comin' in the 2nd wave according to latest rumours. Ah well that sounds good :P But who knows when the 2nd wave might come along Will hold off getting some Forge World dreads then. Kimbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Will hold off getting some Forge World dreads then. Same rumor that says there's a new plastic hellbrute in the 2nd wave says that second wave won't be any time this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 read the faq, they are now 100 points... and yo get your crazed rules in those points too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Sometimes I wonder why they bother. Thank you, GW, for giving me one more set of meltabombs. If, that is, I ever took a Dreadnought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbie Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Will hold off getting some Forge World dreads then. Same rumor that says there's a new plastic hellbrute in the 2nd wave says that second wave won't be any time this year. Ah that's a pain, well might get one FW dread and the options and call it a Hellbrute lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Almost positive it's 12. Interestingly enough for those with the old model, apparently their flails have rules again - same as a fist, but also reduces weapon skill of enemies in base. I wonder if I'll be able to work up the nerve to mess with the Dark Vengeance model.... Probably not. Then again, I do have that half started old FW dread conversion, maybe I'll work a flail arm up for that. Carefully chop the fingers off, replace them with cut down Maulerfiend tendrils. Trust me; they work a treat, and look suitably gribbly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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