Creating new Rhino-chassis vehicles for my custom chapter

[Reichfaust]

Hi all,

 

I am in the ongoing process of creating my own custom chapter. I still haven't nailed down the name or all of the lore but I do know a few key tennets of their battle philosophy; They pride themselves on adaptability, their current Chapter Master favours victory through superior firepower, and he (and myself) are both more than a little jealous of the Imperial Guard having access to all the fun artillery and weapons that the Imperium has to offer.

 

Now I know it would be well within the bounds of both the fluff and the rules to have my Chapter Master commanding a small allied detachment of Imperial Guard... But somehow that doesn't seem good enough to me. I want more, something that gives my chapter a little bit more of their own personality. That, and I love the ubiquitous Rhino chassis and its variations a lot, much more so than any IG armour. So I had a thought; using 6th ed's wonderful Allies matrix and a gratuitous helping of "counts-as", I could create some "brand new" tank and artillery pieces for my Space Marines.

 

For starters, I am quite fond of the idea of the IG's Hellhound derivative, the Devil Dog, specifically that sweet melta-cannon it comes with. my plan for this one is fairly simple--a Predator turret sporting said melta-cannon--I would love to use a Baal Predator's turret for this, with those big promethium tanks attached (Not sure if I could feasibly give this any additional weapons--a multi-melta would make sense, but how would a fixed-direction hull-mounted weapon fit into the scheme of a Predator tank?).

 

The main issue with this is the size difference. I have never seen a Chimera and a Rhino side-by-side so I can only estimate; but it seems that the Chimera chassis is roughly the same height, but a bit wider and a big longer. Is this about correct? Can anyone confirm or post a comparison shot? I have made vehicle conversions in the past that end up being bigger than the original vehicle and that's fine (bigger targets and all that), but I wouldn't want anyone to think I was trying to make smaller, "stealthier" vehicles that are easier to hide behind cover or whatever; especially if there is a significant size difference between the two vehicles. So just how dissimilar are the two in terms of size? Is this within the realms of possibility or is the Rhino just too much smaller? Obviously this is a core issue, because working this out will determine the plausibility of any Chimera-based IG vehicles becoming Rhino STCs. (I haven't even started thinking about how to Marine-ify Leman Russ tanks... any ideas would be welcome!)

 

I have much more planned in my head, but I've got to figure this core issue out first. At the end of the day I want to create these new counts-as vehicles but if I can't keep them game legal the idea loses a lot of its appeal. Thanks for reading my rambling, I would love to hear your ideas and thoughts!

[Axagoras]

There's a forge world unit the demios predator with the melta cannon, you could use that.

[*Furyou Miko]

If you did want to go with the Guard idea (because, for example, your local group are being pains-in-the-arse about forge world), then you could make the heavy bolter a co-axial gun beside the Melta Cannon, you could put it on a side-mount on the turret, or you could have something like the gun on the ME3 Kodiak (on a shoulder-mount on the hull itself). A single, truncated sponson mount could also work - take the standard Predator sponson and 'shorten' it so that the gun is held in much closer to the body of the vehicle.

 

The only problem with this plan is what you're going to use for your Troops option. Personally, I'd go for a unit of Veterans with the Forward Observers and Grenadiers disciplines, three sniper rifles and a heavy bolter. This gives them a 4+ save and a Camo Cloak, making them effectively Scouts. On the other hand, it makes them hideously expensive, so you might want to go without the carapace armour.

[Reichfaust]

There's a forge world unit the demios predator with the melta cannon, you could use that.

 

Oh believe me, I would love to field three of those bad boys, but there are a couple of problems. Mainly, I don't like the look Deimos-pattern tanks nearly as much as I like the newer style of Predator. Not to say the old ones aren't cool in their own right, but honestly I just find the newer ones more visually appealing. I love conversions (obviously or I wouldn't be discussing this) and would be more than happy to make a standard plastic Pred into a counts-as Predator Deimos Infernus--however, considering both the ease of conversion (slap a big ol' melta barrel on the Predator turret, easy job) and the sheer power of the Magna-Melta (5" blast vs. 3" blast of a Devil Dog melta cannon), I can see people complaining that I am taking an easy/cheap/unsportsman-like avenue to get a quasi-legal forgeworld uber-unit into my army, which I can understand, and I don't wanna be that guy.

 

If you did want to go with the Guard idea (because, for example, your local group are being pains-in-the-arse about forge world), then you could make the heavy bolter a co-axial gun beside the Melta Cannon, you could put it on a side-mount on the turret, or you could have something like the gun on the ME3 Kodiak (on a shoulder-mount on the hull itself). A single, truncated sponson mount could also work - take the standard Predator sponson and 'shorten' it so that the gun is held in much closer to the body of the vehicle.

 

The only problem with this plan is what you're going to use for your Troops option. Personally, I'd go for a unit of Veterans with the Forward Observers and Grenadiers disciplines, three sniper rifles and a heavy bolter. This gives them a 4+ save and a Camo Cloak, making them effectively Scouts. On the other hand, it makes them hideously expensive, so you might want to go without the carapace armour.

 

Yes, I had the idea of a co-axial gun initially and quite liked it. I'd just have to remember (or maybe paint a visual cue) to remember that it can only fire straight forward...

 

I do really want to go with Guard, because thanks to vehicle squadrons I could potentially take 3 of these Devil-Preds or Artillery-Rhinos for a single force org selection! Now that sounds appealing. The troops are another story, but I have a fairly good idea of what I want to do, and it fits my fluff which is pretty important.

 

Without getting into too much detail; my Chapter Master (Reichfaust) is very close with his Master of the Forge, who operates on a very, very long leash (to the point of attention from the Inquisition...), and through a combination of the Chapter Master's adaptive battle tactics and the Forgemaster's nigh-unlimited freedom to create and convert new weapons of war, the Chapter now boasts an armoury filled with rare and esoteric variations on the Rhino-chassis STC. Because of the Forgemaster's extensive workshop, he maintains a high number of servitors--both technical and combat. tl,dr; Servitors as counts-as Guardsmen, most likely a Veteran squad. Unsure on weapon combos though. What do you think? Also, any thoughts on an HQ choice?

[Axagoras]

There's a forge world unit the demios predator with the melta cannon, you could use that.

 

Oh believe me, I would love to field three of those bad boys, but there are a couple of problems. Mainly, I don't like the look Deimos-pattern tanks nearly as much as I like the newer style of Predator. Not to say the old ones aren't cool in their own right, but honestly I just find the newer ones more visually appealing. I love conversions (obviously or I wouldn't be discussing this) and would be more than happy to make a standard plastic Pred into a counts-as Predator Deimos Infernus--however, considering both the ease of conversion (slap a big ol' melta barrel on the Predator turret, easy job) and the sheer power of the Magna-Melta (5" blast vs. 3" blast of a Devil Dog melta cannon), I can see people complaining that I am taking an easy/cheap/unsportsman-like avenue to get a quasi-legal forgeworld uber-unit into my army, which I can understand, and I don't wanna be that guy.

If thats considered unsportsman like to use a GW official vehicle then you can say all necron, grey knight, chaos (in a week or so) and all biomancy nids are taking an easy/cheap/unsportsman-like avenue to win.

[Reichfaust]

If thats considered unsportsman like to use a GW official vehicle then you can say all necron, grey knight, chaos (in a week or so) and all biomancy nids are taking an easy/cheap/unsportsman-like avenue to win.

 

How so? Do these armies rely on counts-as Forgeworld units too?

 

Anyway, I did a quick mock-up sketch of how I want my counts-as Basilisk to look. The width/length added by having the stabilising legs and the dozer blade would make it more similar in size to a Chimera chassis but I am still unsure just how much of a size difference there actually is.

 

http://www.imgjoe.com/x/rhinolayers.jpg

[roryokane]

I really like the look of the rhino-basilisk - it'd certainly work well with the stubbier Medusa cannon as well. Be careful in creating those things though - I think the Iron Warriors would be most interested in grabbing anything vaguely heavy-artillery-like that was bolted onto the ever-reliable rhino chassis (and designed to be operated by Space Marines - or at least has enough room for them in the crew compartments! :P)... do I detect the potential for a backstory with an old rivalry with the heinous Sons of Perturabo? ^_^

EDIT: Is the Hydra considered legit? If so, I'd love to see a Space Marine-ified version! :D

[Torvold]

Just my 2 cents worth have you thought about basing it off the vindicator kit? You get the siege shield for the dozer blade a beefier armoured frame to make it look like it can take the re-coil from the cannon and the top plate may make it easier to mount said cannon to the vehicle.

[Reichfaust]

I really like the look of the rhino-basilisk - it'd certainly work well with the stubbier Medusa cannon as well. Be careful in creating those things though - I think the Iron Warriors would be most interested in grabbing anything vaguely heavy-artillery-like that was bolted onto the ever-reliable rhino chassis (and designed to be operated by Space Marines - or at least has enough room for them in the crew compartments! :P)... do I detect the potential for a backstory with an old rivalry with the heinous Sons of Perturabo? :)

EDIT: Is the Hydra considered legit? If so, I'd love to see a Space Marine-ified version! :D

 

Thanks roryokane! I'm still not 100% sold on which piece of Guard artillery I want to convert... I've heard great things about barrage-sniping in 6th, so that plus the S9 AP3 statline drew me to the Earthshaker cannon... However S6 AP3/No Cover would be pretty awesome too! Not so keen on the Medusa, just due to the relatively short range, but the ammunition options would be nice... What would your preference be?

 

Yeah, a Rhino-chassis Hydra would be pretty cool... and a Rhino-chassis Manticore... and a Rhino-chassis Deathstrike Launcher... Hmmm.... I think at this stage I should just ask my employer to start paying me in Rhino kits :)

 

And don't get me started on my plans for Vindicator variants... One with a Thunderfire Cannon, one with a Laser destroyer... Oh god!

 

Just my 2 cents worth have you thought about basing it off the vindicator kit? You get the siege shield for the dozer blade a beefier armoured frame to make it look like it can take the re-coil from the cannon and the top plate may make it easier to mount said cannon to the vehicle.

 

Great idea, Torvold! This would give me the Vindicator shell & crane arm as well, and I could potentially use the extra side armour you get in the Vindicator kit to beef-up the sides of my Devil-Dog Predator, and get it looking a little closer to it's 12-12-10 statline.

 

(Also I would still really appreciate it if anyone could give me a size comparison on the Chimera chassis vs a Rhino chassis. Thanks!)

[roryokane]

I really like the look of the rhino-basilisk - it'd certainly work well with the stubbier Medusa cannon as well. Be careful in creating those things though - I think the Iron Warriors would be most interested in grabbing anything vaguely heavy-artillery-like that was bolted onto the ever-reliable rhino chassis (and designed to be operated by Space Marines - or at least has enough room for them in the crew compartments! :P)... do I detect the potential for a backstory with an old rivalry with the heinous Sons of Perturabo? :D

EDIT: Is the Hydra considered legit? If so, I'd love to see a Space Marine-ified version! :D

 

Thanks roryokane! I'm still not 100% sold on which piece of Guard artillery I want to convert... I've heard great things about barrage-sniping in 6th, so that plus the S9 AP3 statline drew me to the Earthshaker cannon... However S6 AP3/No Cover would be pretty awesome too! Not so keen on the Medusa, just due to the relatively short range, but the ammunition options would be nice... What would your preference be?

 

Yeah, a Rhino-chassis Hydra would be pretty cool... and a Rhino-chassis Manticore... and a Rhino-chassis Deathstrike Launcher... Hmmm.... I think at this stage I should just ask my employer to start paying me in Rhino kits :lol:

 

And don't get me started on my plans for Vindicator variants... One with a Thunderfire Cannon, one with a Laser destroyer... Oh god!

 

Just my 2 cents worth have you thought about basing it off the vindicator kit? You get the siege shield for the dozer blade a beefier armoured frame to make it look like it can take the re-coil from the cannon and the top plate may make it easier to mount said cannon to the vehicle.

 

Great idea, Torvold! This would give me the Vindicator shell & crane arm as well, and I could potentially use the extra side armour you get in the Vindicator kit to beef-up the sides of my Devil-Dog Predator, and get it looking a little closer to it's 12-12-10 statline.

 

(Also I would still really appreciate it if anyone could give me a size comparison on the Chimera chassis vs a Rhino chassis. Thanks!)

Your mentioning of a Vindicator with a Thunderfire cannon or Laser Destroyer got me thinking. We have, right now:

Vindicator => Land Raider Ares (LR w/ Demolisher Cannon)

Vindicator with Thunderfire => Land Raider Achilles (LR w/ Thunderfire Cannon)

Therefore logically:

Vindicator with a Laser Destroyer => Land Raider with a Laser Destroyer (with a cool Greek name to go with it... How about Land Raider Ajax? Or Hector?).

Y'know, just for the lolz.

Pricey, I know, but it'd be awesome to see (YOU HEAR ME, FORGEWORLD!?). :P

If you have the choice of artillery pieces, probably best go with the Basilisk, as the Earthshaker seems to be the best all- round weapon (only problem is that it has a minimum range of 36", which is problematic).

To be fair, Medusas with Siege Shells (or Bastion Breakers, or whatever they're called) have a range of 48", and are S10 AP1 Blast, 2D6 for Armour Penetration - basically, MELTA MISSILES. Plus as I understand it, the 6th Edition rules for blast weapons mean that even if you clip the vehicle with the blast marker, the hit is still resolved at full strength, and with AP1 weapons adding +2 to your vehicle damage chart rolls, that gives you a 50% chance of destroying the target with a penetrating hit (which, with S10+2D6 should be relatively easy, even against AV14). Not to mention it'll still flatten Terminators and/or Plague Marines, just you might need two or three shots to take down the unit instead of one big one.

Plus the stockier look of the barrel makes "fit" better onto the squat boxy Rhino chassis. :)

 

Also, hate to be picky - but I thought all Chimera Chassis vehicles were 12-10-10? Or have I missed something in the Devil Dog's statline?

[Reichfaust]

Your mentioning of a Vindicator with a Thunderfire cannon or Laser Destroyer got me thinking. We have, right now:

Vindicator => Land Raider Ares (LR w/ Demolisher Cannon)

Vindicator with Thunderfire => Land Raider Achilles (LR w/ Thunderfire Cannon)

Therefore logically:

Vindicator with a Laser Destroyer => Land Raider with a Laser Destroyer (with a cool Greek name to go with it... How about Land Raider Ajax? Or Hector?).

Y'know, just for the lolz.

Pricey, I know, but it'd be awesome to see (YOU HEAR ME, FORGEWORLD!?). :huh:

If you have the choice of artillery pieces, probably best go with the Basilisk, as the Earthshaker seems to be the best all- round weapon (only problem is that it has a minimum range of 36", which is problematic).

To be fair, Medusas with Siege Shells (or Bastion Breakers, or whatever they're called) have a range of 48", and are S10 AP1 Blast, 2D6 for Armour Penetration - basically, MELTA MISSILES. Plus as I understand it, the 6th Edition rules for blast weapons mean that even if you clip the vehicle with the blast marker, the hit is still resolved at full strength, and with AP1 weapons adding +2 to your vehicle damage chart rolls, that gives you a 50% chance of destroying the target with a penetrating hit (which, with S10+2D6 should be relatively easy, even against AV14). Not to mention it'll still flatten Terminators and/or Plague Marines, just you might need two or three shots to take down the unit instead of one big one.

Plus the stockier look of the barrel makes "fit" better onto the squat boxy Rhino chassis. :lol:

 

Also, hate to be picky - but I thought all Chimera Chassis vehicles were 12-10-10? Or have I missed something in the Devil Dog's statline?

 

IIRC, the Hellhound/Bane Wolf/Devil Dog are AV 12/12/10, whereas the Artillery pieces and Transport Chimera are 12/10/10... And how about a "Land Raider Damocles" or "Land Raider Pantheon"?

 

Hmmm. So the Earthshaker's 36" minimum range.... I don't have a lot of experience with artillery (obviously, being a marine player), but what does this mean, exactly? Like there is a full 36" bubble in which it can't fire? Because that seems kind of sucky. Almost makes me want to take a Medusa or a Colossus (24" min seems a lot better than 36"...). Does whether you are firing directly/indirectly have any bearing on whether or not you can shoot within minimum range...?

[Reichfaust]

Okay I just answered my own question--obviously I wasn't paying enough attention when I was reading the "Barrage" section in the Rulebook. I can fire within my min. range, but shots will scatter the full 2D6. Looks like Basilisk is the way to go!

 

Also, I just realised the Hellhound family of vehicles are "Fast". This just gets better and better! ;)

[roryokane]

As for the hull-mounted weapon, why not use the Leman Russ' hull mount, offset to one side ( and if you're using the Vindicator's shield on your Rhino-Basilisk, set it up so that it can fire through the demolisher cannon aperture. :devil:

[Reichfaust]

As for the hull-mounted weapon, why not use the Leman Russ' hull mount, offset to one side ( and if you're using the Vindicator's shield on your Rhino-Basilisk, set it up so that it can fire through the demolisher cannon aperture. :)

 

Hmm, not a bad idea... Although I am starting to get some ideas in my head about making some kind of counts-as Leman Russ for my allied detachment by cutting down a Land Raider, hull mounting a cannon (a la Forgeworld's Land Raider Ares), and sticking a Vindicator siege shield in the front. I would sure love to have an Executioner or Punisher in my army!

[Reichfaust]

Just a quick update--I have committed to the project, and have ordered a Baal Predator kit and a Vindicator kit for the Devil Dog and Basilisk respectively! Will still need to track down some bits on eBay, not sure if I will buy an earthshaker cannon or just scratchbuild something out of some piping, for example. Either way, I'll post pics as I go! (although I imagine the Devil Dog won't look nearly as interesting as the Basilisk...)

 

I'm thinking of christening it the "Predator Incinerator" or something. Unsure on the name for my artillery piece. Thoughts? ;)

[Veteran Captain]

I'm sorry to drag this back up but I'm new here and I found this particular thread on Google (of all places) because I'm also looking for custom vehicles for my Rhino chasis... the only thing is I already have 49 tanks (obviously some duplicated (eg. 4 Vindicators) and I'm trying to find something for my 50th and last tank!

I noticed someone mentioned a Marine Hydra... I have 2. I also have a "Marine" Deathstrike, Manticore and more Predator varients than you can shake a stick at! I even went back and built 2 rejected Jes Goodwin Designs from the 80s (well... I'm finishing off the second one as we speak) and I'm also looking for ideas...

[Reichfaust]

I was actually about to resurrect this thread myself! I've made a lot of progress on the Rhino-Basilisks--I will edit this post when I get home from work and add pics.

 

However, I've basically given up on the idea of the Hellhound/Devil Dog variants of the Predator, as I decided to just make one magnetised Predator with all options to run it as a Baal Predator or Predator Executioner/Infernus/Annihilator/Destructor etc etc. The Project is ongoing, but I think it's gonna work out well.

 

Veteran Captain--I would love to see pics of your tank collection! Sounds like quite an arsenal! :)

[Veteran Captain]

I've got a few old pics from a few years ago when I only had 40 or so tanks but I'll post them- One thing I should mention is that the army (armour and troops) is all Generation 1. Nothing is older than 1993. :) so when I say 49 tanks I mean 49 original old tanks... I'm guessing I have to upload pics onto photobucket or something before I can post them so I'll have to do that first. I'll put them up here soon. :)

[Captain Idaho]

I think the discussion about tactical elements of your project has run it's course so perhaps when you want to update us with your conversions etc ( and please do, sounds awesome) it probably needs a thread in a more appropriate place. If you like I can edit in a link later on so people can find it from here. Just send me a PM.

 

Cheers :)