New Possessed

[Smurfalypse]

Looking at the pics that were leaked of the codex and one of the pages has possessed, though that is the ONLY page that seems to be blurry you can certainly make out the rules for them.

 

Fleet

Daemon

Fearless

Champion of Chaos (Champion only)

 

They also get Vessels of Chaos and a chart that you roll a D3 on.

 

Wargear = CCWs and Power Armor.

 

Now, it has been said that they are still 26pts each (No pics to confirm that as far as i know) and I think that is still incredibly over priced for the same statline as before and no frag or krak grenades, you assault into cover and you still go at I1. . .

 

We only have one assault vehicle so putting them into Rhinos is fairly bad, they are to expensive to just footslog and take a pounding as they walk up the board. Not sure what to make of them, I hope the points is less than 26 per, i really really hope.

 

If you know something I don't see, please comment :)

[Panda_]

I think they won't be more usable than their current version. Even if they drop a few points (rumored to be a 2point drop).

 

I've read they roll D3 each turn, and they get either their CCW becomes AP3, either +3A, either +1I & +1A. At the least, in the past, they could fly quickier and scout towards their ennemies.

 

In my humble opinion, nothing has really changed about them. In order to damage things, they'll have to march behind a "walking forward gunline" before fleeting to melee. The good part is that the environment may change towards less mecha.

[Iron Sage]

They are 26 points unfortunatly.

 

At least they can take marks (and we must all remember that marks are much better in this edition as they cannot be sniped away, though that is true for all units).

 

Daemon, Fearless, Fleet. Champion can roll on the fun table for 10 points.

Can take Veterans of the Long War for a point I guess, since all units can do so.

 

Seems like a slightly overcosted assault unit, but they certainly ARE better than they used to be.

[Sception]

Better than they used to be, but still not at all worth fielding. Very disappointing. Assault grenades are not optional wargear for specialist assault units, GW! And 36 points is just way too much for these guys, anyway.

 

I'm really sad. I've got ten, using possessed, spawn, and chaos marine bits, and I've never once used them, nor shall I for the tenure of this new book, either. Jokes on me, I guess.

 

 

So, do we have a running tally of bad units? A few duds are to be expected, what with GW's lax attitude towards play testing. If it gets up to five, I'll start worrying about the book overall. So far, I'm counting three: Mutilators, Thousand Sons, and Possessed. That's not too bad, but it's a real shame that two units that several years being bad under the last book will have to spend several more years being bad under the new one. And it's a real shame since possessed are such nice models, and thousand sons are the signature unit of one of the four alignments. Those are units that deserved better.

[Smurfalypse]

They are 26 points unfortunatly.

 

At least they can take marks (and we must all remember that marks are much better in this edition as they cannot be sniped away, though that is true for all units).

 

Daemon, Fearless, Fleet. Champion can roll on the fun table for 10 points.

Can take Veterans of the Long War for a point I guess, since all units can do so.

 

Seems like a slightly overcosted assault unit, but they certainly ARE better than they used to be.

 

I dont know if they are actually better now than they were before, I think if you assume they roll up scout...Sure they are better now, but if you roll up just about anything else the previous version was better. The only marine in the game with no grenades. . . lol that tears me up inside, i own 30+ of these dudes.

 

This is literally the ONLY thing that i have seen that gives me a bit of pause as "not very useable". The Daemon Engines are all decent to great, raptors are good price, bikes are good price, warp talons are flat out good (+4 pts from the possessed with grenades, jump infantry, lightning claws, can deep strike, blind stuff on deep strike...1 less str, random chart that gives minor upgrades for a turn). The difference between the two units is astounding and only a difference of a rumored 4 pts each :*(

[Iron Sage]

Better than they used to be, but still not at all worth fielding. Very disappointing. Assault grenades are not optional wargear for specialist assault units, GW! And 36 points is just way too much for these guys, anyway.

 

I'm really sad. I've got ten, using possessed, spawn, and chaos marine bits, and I've never once used them, nor shall I for the tenure of this new book, either. Jokes on me, I guess.

 

 

So, do we have a running tally of bad units? A few duds are to be expected, what with GW's lax attitude towards play testing. If it gets up to five, I'll start worrying about the book overall. So far, I'm counting three: Mutilators, Thousand Sons, and Possessed. That's not too bad, but it's a real shame that two units that several years being bad under the last book will have to spend several more years being bad under the new one. And it's a real shame since possessed are such nice models, and thousand sons are the signature unit of one of the four alignments. Those are units that deserved better.

 

IMO Thousand Sons are more situational than bad though. I think they are much better than many people tend to claim. True about the overwatch, but that +4 invul save is actually very good in my experience against guard that desperatly tries to dislodge them from an objective with large pieplates.

I have been running Iron Warriors with a small Sons detachment (1 squad of nine in a rhino) and as an allied contigent they are not bad. I agree that they are certainly worse if you ONLY run rubricae though.

 

But now a Sons army can have 2 squads of rubricae, maybe even one, with a large base of tzeentchian cultists to make up for some of their liabillities. I therefore think a Sons army will be better and not worse now (as long as you dont JUST spam rubricae). Worth mentioning that the decreased cover save in 6ed makes the 4+ invul much better

 

They are 26 points unfortunatly.

 

At least they can take marks (and we must all remember that marks are much better in this edition as they cannot be sniped away, though that is true for all units).

 

Daemon, Fearless, Fleet. Champion can roll on the fun table for 10 points.

Can take Veterans of the Long War for a point I guess, since all units can do so.

 

Seems like a slightly overcosted assault unit, but they certainly ARE better than they used to be.

 

I dont know if they are actually better now than they were before, I think if you assume they roll up scout...Sure they are better now, but if you roll up just about anything else the previous version was better. The only marine in the game with no grenades. . . lol that tears me up inside, i own 30+ of these dudes.

 

This is literally the ONLY thing that i have seen that gives me a bit of pause as "not very useable". The Daemon Engines are all decent to great, raptors are good price, bikes are good price, warp talons are flat out good (+4 pts from the possessed with grenades, jump infantry, lightning claws, can deep strike, blind stuff on deep strike...1 less str, random chart that gives minor upgrades for a turn). The difference between the two units is astounding and only a difference of a rumored 4 pts each :*(

 

 

Not 100% sure they cant have grenades, but I do feel your pain. Like most people, I adore the models...

[Smurfalypse]

Better than they used to be, but still not at all worth fielding. Very disappointing. Assault grenades are not optional wargear for specialist assault units, GW! And 36 points is just way too much for these guys, anyway.

 

I'm really sad. I've got ten, using possessed, spawn, and chaos marine bits, and I've never once used them, nor shall I for the tenure of this new book, either. Jokes on me, I guess.

 

 

So, do we have a running tally of bad units? A few duds are to be expected, what with GW's lax attitude towards play testing. If it gets up to five, I'll start worrying about the book overall. So far, I'm counting three: Mutilators, Thousand Sons, and Possessed. That's not too bad, but it's a real shame that two units that several years being bad under the last book will have to spend several more years being bad under the new one. And it's a real shame since possessed are such nice models, and thousand sons are the signature unit of one of the four alignments. Those are units that deserved better.

 

IMO Thousand Sons are more situational than bad though. I think they are much better than many people tend to claim. True about the overwatch, but that +4 invul save is actually very good in my experience against guard that desperatly tries to dislodge them from an objective with large pieplates.

I have been running Iron Warriors with a small Sons detachment (1 squad of nine in a rhino) and as an allied contigent they are not bad. I agree that they are certainly worse if you ONLY run rubricae though.

 

But now a Sons army can have 2 squads of rubricae, maybe even one, with a large base of tzeentchian cultists to make up for some of their liabillities. I therefore think a Sons army will be better and not worse now (as long as you dont JUST spam rubricae)

 

They are 26 points unfortunatly.

 

At least they can take marks (and we must all remember that marks are much better in this edition as they cannot be sniped away, though that is true for all units).

 

Daemon, Fearless, Fleet. Champion can roll on the fun table for 10 points.

Can take Veterans of the Long War for a point I guess, since all units can do so.

 

Seems like a slightly overcosted assault unit, but they certainly ARE better than they used to be.

 

I dont know if they are actually better now than they were before, I think if you assume they roll up scout...Sure they are better now, but if you roll up just about anything else the previous version was better. The only marine in the game with no grenades. . . lol that tears me up inside, i own 30+ of these dudes.

 

This is literally the ONLY thing that i have seen that gives me a bit of pause as "not very useable". The Daemon Engines are all decent to great, raptors are good price, bikes are good price, warp talons are flat out good (+4 pts from the possessed with grenades, jump infantry, lightning claws, can deep strike, blind stuff on deep strike...1 less str, random chart that gives minor upgrades for a turn). The difference between the two units is astounding and only a difference of a rumored 4 pts each :*(

 

 

Not 100% sure they cant have grenades, but I do feel your pain. Like most people, I adore the models...

 

The other marines list them as wargear, now it is possible you can upgrade to have them but then you are running at a min 27pts each. Either way, still not a good trade off. Dunno what i am gonna do with these guys lol

 

Think in my Elite slot i would rather run Mutilators than these now. They just dont seem to have a place in any list anymore :*(

[Iron Sage]

Better than they used to be, but still not at all worth fielding. Very disappointing. Assault grenades are not optional wargear for specialist assault units, GW! And 36 points is just way too much for these guys, anyway.

 

I'm really sad. I've got ten, using possessed, spawn, and chaos marine bits, and I've never once used them, nor shall I for the tenure of this new book, either. Jokes on me, I guess.

 

 

So, do we have a running tally of bad units? A few duds are to be expected, what with GW's lax attitude towards play testing. If it gets up to five, I'll start worrying about the book overall. So far, I'm counting three: Mutilators, Thousand Sons, and Possessed. That's not too bad, but it's a real shame that two units that several years being bad under the last book will have to spend several more years being bad under the new one. And it's a real shame since possessed are such nice models, and thousand sons are the signature unit of one of the four alignments. Those are units that deserved better.

 

IMO Thousand Sons are more situational than bad though. I think they are much better than many people tend to claim. True about the overwatch, but that +4 invul save is actually very good in my experience against guard that desperatly tries to dislodge them from an objective with large pieplates.

I have been running Iron Warriors with a small Sons detachment (1 squad of nine in a rhino) and as an allied contigent they are not bad. I agree that they are certainly worse if you ONLY run rubricae though.

 

But now a Sons army can have 2 squads of rubricae, maybe even one, with a large base of tzeentchian cultists to make up for some of their liabillities. I therefore think a Sons army will be better and not worse now (as long as you dont JUST spam rubricae)

 

They are 26 points unfortunatly.

 

At least they can take marks (and we must all remember that marks are much better in this edition as they cannot be sniped away, though that is true for all units).

 

Daemon, Fearless, Fleet. Champion can roll on the fun table for 10 points.

Can take Veterans of the Long War for a point I guess, since all units can do so.

 

Seems like a slightly overcosted assault unit, but they certainly ARE better than they used to be.

 

I dont know if they are actually better now than they were before, I think if you assume they roll up scout...Sure they are better now, but if you roll up just about anything else the previous version was better. The only marine in the game with no grenades. . . lol that tears me up inside, i own 30+ of these dudes.

 

This is literally the ONLY thing that i have seen that gives me a bit of pause as "not very useable". The Daemon Engines are all decent to great, raptors are good price, bikes are good price, warp talons are flat out good (+4 pts from the possessed with grenades, jump infantry, lightning claws, can deep strike, blind stuff on deep strike...1 less str, random chart that gives minor upgrades for a turn). The difference between the two units is astounding and only a difference of a rumored 4 pts each :*(

 

 

Not 100% sure they cant have grenades, but I do feel your pain. Like most people, I adore the models...

 

The other marines list them as wargear, now it is possible you can upgrade to have them but then you are running at a min 27pts each. Either way, still not a good trade off. Dunno what i am gonna do with these guys lol

 

Think in my Elite slot i would rather run Mutilators than these now. They just dont seem to have a place in any list anymore :*(

 

Not sure if they are horrible if you give them mark of tzeentch or nurgle, but you probably need 8-10 of these to make them effective. They certainly are too expensive for tournament lists.

Frags really would have helped them a...lot...:/

[Smurfalypse]

Not sure if they are horrible if you give them mark of tzeentch or nurgle, but you probably need 8-10 of these to make them effective. They certainly are too expensive for tournament lists.

Frags really would have helped them a...lot...:/

 

Yeah, I hate judging and bitching about something so much. I guess there are a lot of other elite slot stuff I will be using instead, Hellbrute is viable, Terminators, and Mutilators if I want a CC monster unit.

 

They probably kept the Possessed a little on the weak end to make sure their Mutilator models sold a bit more :D

[Iron Sage]

Not sure if they are horrible if you give them mark of tzeentch or nurgle, but you probably need 8-10 of these to make them effective. They certainly are too expensive for tournament lists.

Frags really would have helped them a...lot...:/

 

Yeah, I hate judging and bitching about something so much. I guess there are a lot of other elite slot stuff I will be using instead, Hellbrute is viable, Terminators, and Mutilators if I want a CC monster unit.

 

They probably kept the Possessed a little on the weak end to make sure their Mutilator models sold a bit more :D

 

Not sure why you think the mutilators are that much better though. It has sadly been confirmed that they are 55 points. They are basically a 2 wounds terminator with the close combat weapons of their choice and the added daemon rule. Sure they can deep strike, but as far as I know, they cant charge the turn the deep strike, so..

 

A unit of 3 costs 165 without marks. To make them good, you need a nurgle or tzeentch mark. Maybe they will be viable. Maybe not. I will leave it to the math hammering types. But I would certainly claim that they are more situational than good.

 

This codex has what I detect as playable units, but many seem to be harder to use and situational. I confess I like it overall. I think we will find that one unit will be weak in one army list and then very good in other army lists where it has synergy.

[Smurfalypse]

Not sure if they are horrible if you give them mark of tzeentch or nurgle, but you probably need 8-10 of these to make them effective. They certainly are too expensive for tournament lists.

Frags really would have helped them a...lot...:/

 

Yeah, I hate judging and bitching about something so much. I guess there are a lot of other elite slot stuff I will be using instead, Hellbrute is viable, Terminators, and Mutilators if I want a CC monster unit.

 

They probably kept the Possessed a little on the weak end to make sure their Mutilator models sold a bit more :D

 

Not sure why you think the mutilators are that much better though. It has sadly been confirmed that they are 55 points. They are basically a 2 wounds terminator with the close combat weapons of their choice and the added daemon rule. Sure they can deep strike, but as far as I know, they cant charge the turn the deep strike, so..

 

A unit of 3 costs 165 without marks. To make them good, you need a nurgle or tzeentch mark. Maybe they will be viable. Maybe not. I will leave it to the math hammering types. But I would certainly claim that they are more situational than good.

 

This codex has what I detect as playable units, but many seem to be harder to use and situational. I confess I like it overall. I think we will find that one unit will be weak in one army list and then very good in other army lists where it has synergy.

 

The mark thing doesnt effect me because I never use marks (Purist Word Bearer player here), but I think the Mutilators will be a decent CC option in the elite slot. They are terminators with duel CC weapons, something our base terms cannot do. They will be able to be effective vs any target in CC, odds are they wipe a basic Tact squad in one charge, with very little lose on their end. They can also go head on vs another Term squad and probably come out ok if not win at all. The difficult part will be getting them into position to do the most damage, we will see though.

 

What I do like about the new codex is how things are going to be more useable compared to the passed. Raptors should be really good for us, bikers are a good price and very useable now, Warp Talons, the Helldrake. Our current codex has zero units that are truely decent in the FA slot, everything was heavy or elite. Will be cool to actually use that stuff again, so maybe we wont need the elite to use a dedicated CC unit, can just use heavy (Maulerfiend) or the plethora of FA units.

[Sception]

At 55 points apiece, and only 2 attacks base, mutilators really aren't any better. If you need a melee elite, try terminators or 'zerkers.

 

I don't really think they make units better or worse to try and sell new models. Or, at least, if they try they're really bad at it. Otherwise, possessed would have actually been good in 4e. And Mutilators would actually be good now.

[Smurfalypse]

At 55 points apiece, and only 2 attacks base, mutilators really aren't any better. If you need a melee elite, try terminators or 'zerkers.

 

I don't really think they make units better or worse to try and sell new models. Or, at least, if they try they're really bad at it. Otherwise, possessed would have actually been good in 4e. And Mutilators would actually be good now.

 

Touche

[Iron Sage]

Yupp, Smurf. I was joking to a friend of mine who plays Necrons that Codex Chaos Fast Attack was comming out soon :D

[Iron Sage]

Khârn statline now available in a good and very visible picture on Tastys blog: http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/09/20/...rine-drip-drip/

 

Bottom pic. His fixed Warlord rule seems very, very nice! His unit will hate everything!

 

Now all we have to know are the stats for Gorechild, as we need to know if he strikes on INIT or not.

[Smurfalypse]

Good, glad to see he may be back as a beast.

[Bearingtheword]

Thinking I will end up pulling one of their cc arms and slapping on one with a ranged wep and using them as chosen or some other retinue for my Dark Apostle.

 

The models are too cool to leave collecting dust but I must say I am glad I haven't put together more than 1 box so far. They are still way overpriced for a unit with no grenades as standard. Sad really....

 

~BtW

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

It's almost as if GW just can't figure out what to do with daemon weapons and Possessed, so they basically just didn't do anything at all with either. It's pretty fundamentally disappointing that they didn't take this opportunity to make either truly worthwhile purchases. Not a good sign when the "flagship" Codex of a new edition has so many glaring examples of the ball being dropped. :D

[Iron Sage]

It's almost as if GW just can't figure out what to do with daemon weapons and Possessed, so they basically just didn't do anything at all with either. It's pretty fundamentally disappointing that they didn't take this opportunity to make either truly worthwhile purchases. Not a good sign when the "flagship" Codex of a new edition has so many glaring examples of the ball being dropped. :D

 

Huh? Daemon weapons are much, much better now.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

It's almost as if GW just can't figure out what to do with daemon weapons and Possessed, so they basically just didn't do anything at all with either. It's pretty fundamentally disappointing that they didn't take this opportunity to make either truly worthwhile purchases. Not a good sign when the "flagship" Codex of a new edition has so many glaring examples of the ball being dropped. :D

 

Huh? Daemon weapons are much, much better now.

 

We're still the only faction in the game whose purchaseable CC weapons stand the chance to punish them before an attack is actually launched. That is not "better", not when Orks can have better reliability with their cobbled-together nonsense.

[Smurfalypse]

It's almost as if GW just can't figure out what to do with daemon weapons and Possessed, so they basically just didn't do anything at all with either. It's pretty fundamentally disappointing that they didn't take this opportunity to make either truly worthwhile purchases. Not a good sign when the "flagship" Codex of a new edition has so many glaring examples of the ball being dropped. :D

 

Huh? Daemon weapons are much, much better now.

 

We're still the only faction in the game whose purchaseable CC weapons stand the chance to punish them before an attack is actually launched. That is not "better", not when Orks can have better reliability with their cobbled-together nonsense.

 

D6 extra attacks at AP 2 (the current codex) and an extra ability is kinda nutty good currently.

[Excessus]

Yes, because Orks have +d6 attacks @ initiative with AP2 and additional effects. Do we know how much the Daemon Weapons will cost yet? NO!

 

Patience is a virtue not many people on warseer, and here as well apparantely, have...

[Smurfalypse]

Also meant to add that rumor right now is that Daemon Princes can take Daemon Weapons. That will be highly highly pricey (I can see these guys getting upwards of 400pts each if we wanted), but he may just become the biggest beat stick in the game.

[Iron Sage]

It's almost as if GW just can't figure out what to do with daemon weapons and Possessed, so they basically just didn't do anything at all with either. It's pretty fundamentally disappointing that they didn't take this opportunity to make either truly worthwhile purchases. Not a good sign when the "flagship" Codex of a new edition has so many glaring examples of the ball being dropped. :D

 

Huh? Daemon weapons are much, much better now.

 

We're still the only faction in the game whose purchaseable CC weapons stand the chance to punish them before an attack is actually launched. That is not "better", not when Orks can have better reliability with their cobbled-together nonsense.

 

Lol, but its obviously how a DAEMONIC weapon, in my opinion at least, SHOULD work. I totally fail to see the issue to say the least. With great power comes some modicum of risk. And yes, rolling a 1 is a risk, and frankly if you are so blind that you can`t even see the obvious, that daemon weapons got better that is, then I dont know what to say. Your statement that they didnt get better is certainly very categorically false and borderline silly.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe we're now the only marine codex that gets an AP2 @ initiative close combat weapon these days(except maybe Calgar's PFists and other such unique character nonsense). New boons chart gives us a chance(however slight) to recover the lost wound if a 1 is rolled. And still beig able to attack that round, albeit only hitting on 5s is a vast improvement on what we had.