New Possessed

[Kol Saresk]

Cynical Realism? That actually exists?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! ;) It's a WarpMass Miracle!

[Sception]

Ironically I think Possessed might be very useful against those 90 Cultists you just mentioned. I get the feel that they're being geared for light infantry assault rather than a anti-heavy role. I think 2 of their randoms are pretty good against the light infantry, and with Fear they can do a number on that sort of unit.

 

I just don't see this working out for them. They die just as fast to small arms fire / massed attacks as basic chaos marines, but cost twice as many points, and don't have twice the offensive output, either. There's really nothing they reliably tackle twice as effectively as basic chaos marines to warrant costing twice as much, even before you remember that basic marines with pistols and CCweps have frag & krak grenades, and a pistol shot, and are scoring....

 

Best scenario for possessed is rolling AP3 while in combat with marines, but if that's what you want you could have spent your points on warp talons and be guaranteed both shreed AND ap3 on a faster body for only a couple more points apiece? Or if your FA slots are full, take chosen, again with guaranteed power weapon access, more attacks base (since they get pistol & ccwep), ranged weapons, & grenades, and even with a fair smattering of power weapons their unit won't cost much more? And even chosen and talons aren't necessarily all that, we haven't even considered terminators or berzerkers for melee specialists.

 

No, I think possessed are once again little more than bit fodder for unit champions and chosen squads.

[Lepaca]

Sucks. I just saw that they got fleet (which btw is one of the best rules for CC units there is) and was really thinking about using them.

Unfortunately I overlooked the fact that they still have no grenades.

 

Although I though I saw somewhere that they now have bolt pistols = +1 Attack? Am I wrong here?

 

And just for the record: While they are clearly outdone by several of our other CC units they are still miles ahead (rulewise) of the mutilators IMO.

[Feste]

Ironically I think Possessed might be very useful against those 90 Cultists you just mentioned. I get the feel that they're being geared for light infantry assault rather than a anti-heavy role. I think 2 of their randoms are pretty good against the light infantry, and with Fear they can do a number on that sort of unit.

 

I just don't see this working out for them. They die just as fast to small arms fire / massed attacks as basic chaos marines, but cost twice as many points, and don't have twice the offensive output, either. There's really nothing they reliably tackle twice as effectively as basic chaos marines to warrant costing twice as much, even before you remember that basic marines with pistols and CCweps have frag & krak grenades, and a pistol shot, and are scoring....

 

Best scenario for possessed is rolling AP3 while in combat with marines, but if that's what you want you could have spent your points on warp talons and be guaranteed both shreed AND ap3 on a faster body for only a couple more points apiece? Or if your FA slots are full, take chosen, again with guaranteed power weapon access, more attacks base (since they get pistol & ccwep), ranged weapons, & grenades, and even with a fair smattering of power weapons their unit won't cost much more? And even chosen and talons aren't necessarily all that, we haven't even considered terminators or berzerkers for melee specialists.

 

No, I think possessed are once again little more than bit fodder for unit champions and chosen squads.

They cost twice as many points as base marines, will many people will be running them completely naked? Also, isn't part of the rumours that we know have to buy the addition CC weapon? So, with 2 attacks at 26 points they would have exactly twice the damage output not even taking their other abilities into account.

 

Looking at their other stuff, Str 5 isn't an inconsiderable advantage; their Random Fun Stuff is what? Shred, AP3, +1A +1I? All of these things are good against GEQ, but AP3 is vital against MEQ. Warp Talons will certainly be better against MEQ, how much more are they over Possessed? If so, Possessed should get more attacks against Light Infantry than the Talons.

 

Regarding Mutilators, yep they're better than Possessed but are twice as expensive so you'll have to have a serious plan for them in your army. Can't say anything wrong, or indeed else, about them though, I just don't know enough.

[Sception]

I'm assuming you're comparing possessed to assault oriented basic marines, which can trade their bolters for extra close combat weapons for free - they only have to pay more points for CCWeps if they keep their bolters. And while possessed may not be twice as expensive for the unit after you consider special weapons or champion gear, those upgrades are well worth it and reliable. Their existence doesn't improve the comparison any. Possessed are not significantly cheaper than talons, nor are they enough cheaper than terminators or power weapon armed chosen to look good in those comparisons, either.

 

Mutilators are even worse than possessed, I didn't bring them up because they're pretty terrible.

 

Possessed may be better than they were - at least they have fleet, and since they roll every fight phase instead of once per game, they're more likely to get something useful at least some time during any given game, provided they live long enough to hit melee, instead of being potentially stuck with dud rolls for whole games like before. But regardless, they're still way overpriced, and compare very poorly with generic marines, berzerkers, warp talons, terminators, raptors.... I mean, we've got a lot of good to great melee options, and as far as I can tell, these guys just don't measure up, point for point.

 

I play black legion, and already have a unit of 10 converted, so I'll at least be trying these guys to see if my impressions are wrong, but looking at them I just kind of have to shake my head.

[Iron Sage]

For 2 extra (at least marines pay that) points per model they can get mark of tzeentch though,which gives them a fairly useful and quite fluffy +4 invul save besides their power armour. Still going to be difficult to use though. The lack of grenades is what is see as the greatest issue.

[Smurfalypse]

For 2 extra (at least marines pay that) points per model they can get mark of tzeentch though,which gives them a fairly useful and quite fluffy +4 invul save besides their power armour. Still going to be difficult to use though. The lack of grenades is what is see as the greatest issue.

 

Yeah, that is what sorta destroyed my spirit when I saw the wargear for other units and it listed "frag and krak" there, but only listed power armor and cc weapons for possessed :*(

[Sception]

Problem with MoT on the possessed is that it seems to me small arms fire will be their undoing, rather than heavy stuff. MoT is scary on models with 2+ saves - smiths, terminators, even oblits & mutis - but T4 3+ save units can only get so expensive before it becomes ridiculously points efficient to blast them away with bolters & the like. Same problem with thousand sons, really. a 4+ inv. is nice, but when you cost over 25 points a model, your opponent can afford to just plow through your power armor with weight of fire instead. I'd almost take MoN instead, but that's generally even more expensive than other marks, and more expensive is not what possessed need to be.

[Iron Sage]

For 2 extra (at least marines pay that) points per model they can get mark of tzeentch though,which gives them a fairly useful and quite fluffy +4 invul save besides their power armour. Still going to be difficult to use though. The lack of grenades is what is see as the greatest issue.

 

Yeah, that is what sorta destroyed my spirit when I saw the wargear for other units and it listed "frag and krak" there, but only listed power armor and cc weapons for possessed :*(

 

Indeed, it sucks :/

 

I read that the champ can take 2 boon mutations, but thats a pretty ridiculus trade off, even though I love the boon rolls and will pay points all over to roll on it. I love randomness which may or may not pay off but I am not a fool thinking its statistically cost efficient.

[Iron Sage]

Problem with MoT on the possessed is that it seems to me small arms fire will be their undoing, rather than heavy stuff. MoT is scary on models with 2+ saves - smiths, terminators, even oblits & mutis - but T4 3+ save units can only get so expensive before it becomes ridiculously points efficient to blast them away with bolters & the like. Same problem with thousand sons, really. a 4+ inv. is nice, but when you cost over 25 points a model, your opponent can afford to just plow through your power armor with weight of fire instead. I'd almost take MoN instead, but that's generally even more expensive than other marks, and more expensive is not what possessed need to be.

 

I agree of course, thugh I would like to point out that you could have mentioned all the plasma fire that one usually sees. If there is one thing +4 invul saves are nice against, its ordnance of course, but also plasma fire when you get closer to the enemy. Other than that I agree. Still, a +4 invul save can be very good to have in many tactical situations.

 

As for Sons, I view them more as a support unit than main stay infantry. I think Sons alone, if they are you only infantry in your list, will be weak due to their inherant limitations, but on ther other side, one squad of them (or two if you play high points) can actually be very good and very worth the points cost.

[AekoldHelbrass]

You can always run Possessed with Lord of some kind, maybe Sorc or Apostle, to get grenades. It's 6th edition, on 2000 points you can double your FOC even without asking permission of your opponents. I think that's why Apostle in HQ in the first place, instead of being like priest or wolf guard 3 per Elite.

[Sception]

I thought assault grenades worked on a model by model, rather than unit by unit basis? I could be wrong, though, I'm away from book at the moment.

[Iron Sage]

I thought assault grenades worked on a model by model, rather than unit by unit basis? I could be wrong, though, I'm away from book at the moment.

Reading the rules now and it says "models equipped",so no, a lord does not aid them assaulting into cover

[Smurfalypse]

It is a darn shame. They are such a cool concept and a cool unit, especially with the direction of mixing man/machine/daemon for chaos in general. You would have thought these guys would have seen some love. I would even go so far to say that they are worse off with the new codex than the current one. Three of the options when you rolled for possessed were fairly decent (Power weapons, FnP, Rending), if you rolled up any of those three, you probably got a unit that would be decent.

[Bearingtheword]

I thought assault grenades worked on a model by model, rather than unit by unit basis? I could be wrong, though, I'm away from book at the moment.

Reading the rules now and it says "models equipped",so no, a lord does not aid them assaulting into cover

 

Put them with a Daemon Prince maybe? As a monstrous creature Nevermind, I was thinking Move through Cover negated the initiative penalty.... I could have sworn I had read one of the SR's had the effect of negating that initiative penalty but I'm not finding it =(

 

Oh well... not having grenades is gonna suck....if you use possessed

 

~BtW

 

Do Possessed have the Daemon SR now? If so, they have Fear now and that could possibly help in those situations providing your enemy fail their leadership test. Just a thought....

[Sception]

Yeah, fear's part of the daemon rules. Unfortunately, half the game's immune to it flat out, and the other half isn't likely to fail their leadership tests anyway, and aren't threatening enough in close combat to warrant 26 point specialists even if they did.

[Bearingtheword]

Yeah, fear's part of the daemon rules. Unfortunately, half the game's immune to it flat out, and the other half isn't likely to fail their leadership tests anyway, and aren't threatening enough in close combat to warrant 26 point specialists even if they did.

 

 

So the reality is that unless we missed something, the units pretty much going to see as much table time as it did before.... meaning zero to none...

 

Sucks for such an iconic unit...

 

 

At least there will be counts-as opportunities *sigh*

 

~BtW

[Sception]

They are better than they were. But yeah, I don't think it's by nearly enough to let them stand up next to our other, better melee options. Then again, I tend towards pessimism, so maybe they won't be as bad in practice on the table as they seem to me just looking over their rules.