space wolf Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Still pretty damn retarded that Abaddon might be wounded by his daemon weapon when Crowe, Calgar and Grimnar simply don't care. However they get nice bonuses,. Space Wolves have one of the most overpower codices, in my opinion. Just look at their rune priests... Why whatever do you mean? SPACE VIKINGS! <_< agreed the axe of morkai is nice, especially paired with logans huge attack characteristic. However, d6 extra ap2 attacks added on to the 6 abbadon already has is just nuts (assuming you charged...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Still pretty damn retarded that Abaddon might be wounded by his daemon weapon when Crowe, Calgar and Grimnar simply don't care.Why would Calgar? He is using Imperium-forged weapons, not Chaos weapons. Too true to ask about Crowe and Grimnar though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Still pretty damn retarded that Abaddon might be wounded by his daemon weapon when Crowe, Calgar and Grimnar simply don't care. Logan can't hit you at initiative with AP2. Crowe's is not as powerful (and can't hit at Init. at AP2) Hitting at initiative with ap2 is quite strong. I've equipped all my SW characters with some type of armor 2 so this ap2 DW negate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Still pretty damn retarded that Abaddon might be wounded by his daemon weapon when Crowe, Calgar and Grimnar simply don't care.Why would Calgar? He is using Imperium-forged weapons, not Chaos weapons. Too true to ask about Crowe and Grimnar though. You should read his fluff before saying that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Still pretty damn retarded that Abaddon might be wounded by his daemon weapon when Crowe, Calgar and Grimnar simply don't care. Logan can't hit you at initiative with AP2. Crowe's is not as powerful (and can't hit at Init. at AP2) Hitting at initiative with ap2 is quite strong. I've equipped all my SW characters with some type of armor 2 so this ap2 DW negate that. You know, not so long ago, Abaddon was a walking power sword that could hurt him, for 275pts. The power of the weapons is not what matters. They use daemon weapons ? Then, they should not be safe with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loku Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 So... we have to wait for a FAQ, because it isn`t written in the entry like the old dex! Mark od Chaos Ascendant 4th Dex Page 46: ... Abaddon has melded the Marks of Chaos granted to him, and now bears a unique Mark that combines all of the gifts. Because of the Mark of Tzeentch, the invulnerable save provided by his armour is increaser to 4+. The other benefits are included in his profile. Jejeje so Abaddon always rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Still pretty damn retarded that Abaddon might be wounded by his daemon weapon when Crowe, Calgar and Grimnar simply don't care. Logan can't hit you at initiative with AP2. Crowe's is not as powerful (and can't hit at Init. at AP2) Hitting at initiative with ap2 is quite strong. I've equipped all my SW characters with some type of armor 2 so this ap2 DW negate that. You know, not so long ago, Abaddon was a walking power sword that could hurt him, for 275pts. The power of the weapons is not what matters. They use daemon weapons ? Then, they should not be safe with it. I won't say any more on SW's, but the Axe of Morkai is powered by the energies of the warp but not a "daemon weapon" in it's description. Anyways I think it is game balance that they are going for and not fluff. If you feel strongly about it, pose the question (civilly) in the SW forum for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The axe of Morkai was taken from a fallen Chaos Lord or something, then it was reforged. Maybe people like to think that "SW don't use warp, lol", when it has been settled that it's either hypocrisy or ignorance. In the end, the only game design reason is :"Imperials can't be random. Randomness is for Chaos". Which is utterly stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
space wolf Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I'm paraphrasing here, but per the 2nd ed codex, the Axe of morkai was taken from a demon prince I believe. It specifically calls it a demon weapon. But then it was cleansed by the machine rituals of the Tech/Iron Priests (whatever they were called in 2nd). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwasitme Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Wonder if Drach'nyen still gets the extra D6 attacks. Yes, it would. because its special rules is "Daemon Weapon". If you elected to use the Talon of Horus, however, you would NOT get the D6 attacks, because it isnt listed as a daemon weapon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yes but has it been said that "daemon weapons" still give the extra D6 attacks in the new codex? I haven't seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yes but has it been said that "daemon weapons" still give the extra D6 attacks in the new codex? I haven't seen it. First picture on the page: http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/09/20/...rine-drip-drip/ Its also on some other leaked pages, but I am cursing myself for my stupidity now since i have saved none of the many leaked pages I have posted all over the place, and I have noticed that the original source has removed them(From the Fang blog, and one other blogger I dont remember), and I for one, refuse to spend many minuttes scanning the sad site that is 4chan(my brain would implode silently after spending more than 5 min on that site, though I know its there). Tasty Taste has these leaks though, but they are some what less exciting since they dont show full profiles and costs like the sneaky games day pics do. Edit: What we have learned. We should have made a picture compilation thread, and its sad that we didnt. Still, not that many weeks left to wait now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 The people I play with (some of them) are actually pedantic enough to firmly claim these bonuses even against better reason. Perhaps I should return the favor just to troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Still pretty damn retarded that Abaddon might be wounded by his daemon weapon when Crowe, Calgar and Grimnar simply don't care.Why would Calgar? He is using Imperium-forged weapons, not Chaos weapons. Too true to ask about Crowe and Grimnar though. The Gauntlets of Ultramar come from a Chaos Champion slain by Roboute Guilliman during the Gamalia Reclusiam Massacre. It is interesting to see how the Imperial Policy on the use of chaos tech, or chaos related/derived tech, is based on discrimination. :( There are Chapters that are hunted down because the studied chaos in order to counter it while other are given the benefits or chaos artiafacts, even though properly "cleansened". I'm not surpride since we are talking about the same "Governement" who said Ecclesiarchy can have an army because the decree passive prohibits it from having "men under arms" and since SoB are women the Adepta Sororitas is a lawful organization. Do they know the word "men" is used to indetify both male and female individuals belonging to human race (see The Imperium of Man)? I went a little of topic, I suspect ;) I just wanted to post my opinion on the whole "you use chaos tech thus you are a traitor" matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I'm not [surprised] since we are talking about the same "Governement" who said Ecclesiarchy can have an army because the decree passive prohibits it from having "men under arms" and since SoB are women the Adepta Sororitas is a lawful organization. Do they know the word "men" is used to indetify both male and female individuals belonging to human race (see The Imperium of Man)? It is the church we are talking about here. They have always used the word "men" how ever is most convenient for the dogma of the day. :lol: Every rule has exceptions and every rule can be broken. It is all in how you break the rules that matter. That's where the interesting parts of the story are found. It is not just for fluff, either. The whole 40K game is designed that way. The main book lays out all the rules and then each separate army has a codex listing how they can break certain rules in their own way. Which brings me back to the topic. While I think that the marks are already included in the profile, there is enough of a doubt that maybe this time it is going to be different (breaking the rules) that I can't say I am 100% on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I'm not [surprised] since we are talking about the same "Governement" who said Ecclesiarchy can have an army because the decree passive prohibits it from having "men under arms" and since SoB are women the Adepta Sororitas is a lawful organization. Do they know the word "men" is used to indetify both male and female individuals belonging to human race (see The Imperium of Man)? It is the church we are talking about here. They have always used the word "men" how ever is most convenient for the dogma of the day. :lol: Every rule has exceptions and every rule can be broken. It is all in how you break the rules that matter. That's where the interesting parts of the story are found. It is not just for fluff, either. The whole 40K game is designed that way. The main book lays out all the rules and then each separate army has a codex listing how they can break certain rules in their own way. Which brings me back to the topic. While I think that the marks are already included in the profile, there is enough of a doubt that maybe this time it is going to be different (breaking the rules) that I can't say I am 100% on that. The Ecclesiarchy's interpretation is arbitrarily illogical. It's not a mere intepretation on "rules' exceptions". It's an abuse of authority. They simply used their political influence to bypass the letter and the spirit of the Imperial Law and since many officers are too scared, or simply they get benefits, they accept an unlawful organization and grant them to power of life and death over bilion invididuals. In my opionion they are not different from the legions who betrayed the Emperor. At least thos legions don't pretend to be the protectors of the Imperium they betrayed. Anyway back on topic: my first intepretation would they are already included in the profile. Since I always try to make controversial interpreation the less "prejudicial" for my opponent I'd say their are already included. However the text of rule is not clear and I believe the other interpretation (to add the effect of each mark) is not completely illogical. For now I'd go for the "fair play" and see what happen next :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Your tone smacks of heresy, blasphemer. I don't see how the Decree Passive can be interpreted in any other way. After all, the man who wrote that rule -- Sebastian Thor --also put the Adepta Sororitas in their place as the enforcers of the Ecclesiarch. ===== In the end, this is why all the double-talk and double standards exist. It gives us a reason to pick a fight and play a game. The constant wars even among our selves is part of the grimdark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Your tone smacks of heresy, blasphemer. I don't see how the Decree Passive can be interpreted in any other way. After all, the man who wrote that rule -- Sebastian Thor --also put the Adepta Sororitas in their place as the enforcers of the Ecclesiarch. ===== In the end, this is why all the double-talk and double standards exist. It gives us a reason to pick a fight and play a game. The constant wars even among our selves is part of the grimdark. Indeed. I was not making polemics with you ;) I was just mentioning how the Ecclesiarchy interpratation violate the letter and the spirit of the law. It does not matter if the "author" of the law is also the author of the unlawful interpratation. Legislators are responsable for the text of the law they make and once they have been promulgated they are bond to them. That's why juridical bodies exist and why separation of powers is the base of any democracy ;) Anyway the Imperium is not a democracy and its current governmental bodies clearly use the Emperor's words and ideals for their own purposes, so I'm proud to be considered heretic :o The Ecclesiarchy and their allies betrayed the Emperor. It will be the reason my DYI CSM Codex Chapter will become renegade. By the way I always like to "pick a fight and play a game", in friendly context, of course ;) Just one last thing: I suppose the "blasphemer" was a joke part of the "pick a fight and play a game" attitude, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 As Abaddon is said to have "all the marks" I'd say he'll unlock all cult units as troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 As Abaddon is said to have "all the marks" I'd say he'll unlock all cult units as troops. He isn't a Lord though. Also, just like an Alpha Legionnaire to whisper ideas like "the Ecclesiarchy is as bad as the Traitor Legions" into the vulnerable ears of loyal Imperial citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 How is Abbadon not a chaos lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 He is supposed to unlock only Chosen though, Sir Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 How is Abbadon not a chaos lord? he's not the warmaster he's a very naughty boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 How is Abbadon not a chaos lord? he's not the warmaster he's a very naughty boy Get away from that welsh tart!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 As Abaddon is said to have "all the marks" I'd say he'll unlock all cult units as troops. He isn't a Lord though. Also, just like an Alpha Legionnaire to whisper ideas like "the Ecclesiarchy is as bad as the Traitor Legions" into the vulnerable ears of loyal Imperial citizens. It depends on the actual text of the rule. Many codices state special characters count as prerequisit of something unlocked by their unnamed counterparts. Look at C:SM "For every chapter master (or captain) uncluding "list of unique characters" you may include a honor guard (or comand squad for the captain" Even Codex Dark Eldar: For every Archon in you army including "list of unique characters" etc... By the way I already started to whisper ideas against ecclesiarchy. I'm sure my Dark Apostoles will report back the defection of many Imperial citizens, I need more cultists, after all. :huh: It's not a difficult task since such ideas speak the truth in most cases.... How can we consider the Ecclesiarchy the "good guys"? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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