Forge World Mark IV Armour + Command Upgrade

[Chuffy]

Hiya All,

 

So in the past I have ordered and had Mark IV Armour from Forge World. This weekend at Games Day I finaly got to the front of the sales cue after about 2 hours. I ordered a bunch of stuff and another set of Mark IV Armour at Games Day.

 

I did a unbaging of this and the Mark IV Command Upgrade's. The below is my video of this but the Mark IV armour guys are diffrent than those I have had in the past. Theres stud's on there armour and the power pack on the back are more Mark VII looking than Mark IV. Any one else commented about this and what you guys think ?

 

 

Chuffy

[spu00sed]

I purchased some mark IV about a week and a half ago.

 

They arrived on Monday.

 

I would check them, but I am on Hamster watch ont he moment (one of the gitz escaped today). So I will check when I can.

 

I can't remember seeing any differences when I did my mandatory check for deformities.

 

I would like to hear what FW says. The webste still shows the old type.

 

Maybe they are replacing them. Hopefully they are making two types

 

Mark IV

 

Mark IV during the heresy.

 

Since mark V is custom jobs to keep the army working, there should be a few mark x/V around. Where the x is one of the previous marks.

 

 

Though it would be nice to have pure sets.

 

My current preheresy.heresy Emeperors's children have marks for different units

Mark III for veterans and command units

Mark IV for tactical and devastators

MkII for assault (since I don't like the Mark IV assault troopers)

 

Since I am playing the pretty legion, I wouldn;t want any silly studs where they shouldn't be.

[A D-B]

Any one else commented about this and what you guys think ?

 

I think it's awesome and realistic. The idea of every Marine in a squad looking exactly the same is always kinda nonsense, and any armour Mark is just a template for countless variations on the same suit.

 

Objecting to it feels a bit like buying a box of Cadians and wanting every single face to be a clone.

[Dorns Templar]

The set of heads in the video looks to be the same as the Mk4 assault squad. I'm sure in the cabinets at Games Day on the Forgeworld stand, they had some "Legion Mk4 armour sets" along with other armour marks. These had different poses like what you've got from what I remember. They were in the updated catalogue as well, I think.

 

The issue with the backpacks I've seen mentioned before, though I don't recall where.

 

Edit: esinhorn's thread about his Hastur Sejanus in the W.I.P section, page 3, mentions the backpack issue.

[TennisBall]

Any one else commented about this and what you guys think ?

 

I think it's awesome and realistic. The idea of every Marine in a squad looking exactly the same is always kinda nonsense, and any armour Mark is just a template for countless variations on the same suit.

 

Objecting to it feels a bit like buying a box of Cadians and wanting every single face to be a clone.

I don't think it's the variation per se, it's that if someone wants MKIV, they want to know that it's MKIV and not some other mark. It may be that the marks are based on more subtle internal variations than external appearance, but for us modeling it, the external cues are the most important to show a difference.

 

I love the narrative aspect of the marks. You can see the progress to MKIV, then things go south a bit, then things improve again through to MKVIII. I agree that the assault MKIV is excellent as it gives inspiration for doing MKIV with variations while still being MKIV. The main complaint for some has been a completely different backpack being introduced for MKIV that replaces what was thought to be the "proper" style. Not only that, but the type chosen looks more like the "current" era one than an earlier mark.

 

For me anyway, the reasoning behind having marines in a squad having similar armour is that it makes it easier for whatever techmarine deals with their armour to fix it if it's all of the same type. Squad tradition may also dictate that the unit look a certain way.

I'm sure you'll say it's more random than that given the vagueries of supply and manufacture and individual prowess, but I can see units adopting a more uniform approach too.

[Vodunius]

Personally I rather like the change in backpack, if you go back to the original sketches in the WD129 article the MkIV clearly didn't have the MkVII backpack, but it clearly didn't have the MkV/VI backpack either - it was nearer to them but lacked the external cabling on top (the write up for the MkV didn't mention backpacks specifically but did mention the use of inferior cabling that had to be mounted externally). The new backpack is clearly the old MkVII backpack - the one that was seemingly retconned out of existence with the advent of the 3rd edition plastics, but I see nothing wrong with resurrecting it and shifting its place rather than designing a new MkIV backpack.

 

The annoyance at the changing is perfectly valid however, there's no "contents may vary from those shown" disclaimer on the web page so you have every legal right to expect to get what was shown.

[Olis]

Personally I rather like the change in backpack, if you go back to the original sketches in the WD129 article the MkIV clearly didn't have the MkVII backpack, but it clearly didn't have the MkV/VI backpack either - it was nearer to them but lacked the external cabling on top (the write up for the MkV didn't mention backpacks specifically but did mention the use of inferior cabling that had to be mounted externally). The new backpack is clearly the old MkVII backpack - the one that was seemingly retconned out of existence with the advent of the 3rd edition plastics, but I see nothing wrong with resurrecting it and shifting its place rather than designing a new MkIV backpack.

 

The annoyance at the changing is perfectly valid however, there's no "contents may vary from those shown" disclaimer on the web page so you have every legal right to expect to get what was shown.

 

This exactly enunciates my feelings on the matter. It would be nice if they told us of the change but I like 'em, so I've got no bones with the different bits. When the 'new' Mk4 backpack popped up not too long ago on the Mk4 character kit, I was quite happy that the 'old' Mk4 backpack had been superseded, as I felt it didn't quite fit.

[TennisBall]

I do like the change. As soon as I get one I want to see how close they are to the old 2nd ed ones. I suspect they're wider at least but I'll have to wait.

[Tyrannicide]

I've got a question.

 

Are the proportions on this new Mk IV kit more in line with the first iteration of the Pre-Heresy armor sets? By this, I mean is the new Mk. IV armor the same size as the Captain, Banner Bearer and Assault Squad, or is it more in line with the Apothecary and original Pre-Heresy Mk. IV kit released a while back?

 

FW really pissed me off when I opened my ~ $60 Assault squad and they were all squats (something more associated with GW's plastic Marines). I hate the sizing differences and inconsistency.

 

 

EDIT: Ugh... after watching a bit more of the video it looks like these guys suffer from this new squat syndrome as well. Damn. <_<

 

Make up your minds FW!

[TennisBall]

What size difference? Someone said that the command set figures were a different size but they never posted pictures to prove this.

Now the new GW chosen that came with the Dark Vengeance set, they were bigger.

So maybe you could post a comparison picture of the MKIV assault next to regular assault or regular marines to show this size difference. Can't say I've noticed any size difference in the other marks I've got from Forge World.

[Captain Semper]

Any one else commented about this and what you guys think ?

 

I think it's awesome and realistic. The idea of every Marine in a squad looking exactly the same is always kinda nonsense, and any armour Mark is just a template for countless variations on the same suit.

 

Objecting to it feels a bit like buying a box of Cadians and wanting every single face to be a clone.

 

I think you're a bit harsh.

 

Some people like uniformity in their armies - and that is purely down to personal preference. Sure, a more differentiated range of MkIVs will give a more "realistic" imagery to the army but why should everyone like that? And frankly the studded look is something associated with MkV - a feature that many dislike and hence opt for the more "clean" looking and elegant MkIV. I think I read somewhere that FW will carry on producing the existing range as well as the new range of older armour Mks and I say good for them. In fact the mixing of older and new range of the same armour type will increase diversity even more for those that like that sort of thing while giving the option to those that go for uniformity to continue with their preference. If that's the case I say good show FW!

[Hyperion]

I just spoke to FW, who confirmed that the new Mk4 kit is an addition - they were apparently intending it as a replacement, but they've realised people still want the original too.

[Olis]

Interesting. I wonder how they'll market it.

[RobDonkey]

I'm looking to start yet another Marine army after my White Scars are completed next century and I was considering doing an all Mk IV pre-Heresy Emperor's Children army (purple is a nice change) but after seeing some of these changes I'm not so sure.

 

Variations are fine. My (post-Heresy) White Scars have no models made up of one armour type. The Great Crusade, the Heresy and everything after probably took their toll on armour so it makes sense to replace panels with newer models when needed.

 

But when you want to make an entirely uniform army it's made difficult when kits are changed out of the blue. Or resin grey in this case.

 

So now I'm thinking of going for Mk III armour instead before they mess about with that. A Crusade era army may not be so bad.

[Dorns Templar]

Just been looking at the latest Forgeworld newsletter, and it shows a World Eater in mkIV with the studded mkIV legs, and what looks like the "new" backpack you show in the video.

[EPK]

I wonder if the change has anything to do with the new Heresy series. To me, with these new studded pieces, this is exactly what Mark V would have felt like when it first started to be implemented. Mark V wasn't even a mark per se. It came about when they started making battlefield type repairs to any other suit of armor because of lack of supplies. It totally makes sense that Mark IVs and even other suits would start to see these aberrations on them. And over time the repairs gave a certain style that eventually became its own mark.

 

With the explanation of how Mark V actually came about doing it this way seems to make more sense to me. If fact, given the origins of Mark V, I personally don't think it should have a distinct set at all but rather be represented as slight alterations to Mark II-VI (Sorry Captain Semper - I know you like your Mk V :P).

 

Perhaps what FW should do however is make a separate Heresy-era and Pre-Heresy era set for at least the MK IV.

 

EDIT: spu00sed said about the same thing above.

[TennisBall]

That's good news if they're keeping the existing one and adding another in. This is one of the best looking marks I feel. Given as mentioned that MKV is going to be mostly based on MKIV, it also makes sense that this mark has the biggest range.

[Captain Semper]

I wonder if the change has anything to do with the new Heresy series. To me, with these new studded pieces, this is exactly what Mark V would have felt like when it first started to be implemented. Mark V wasn't even a mark per se. It came about when they started making battlefield type repairs to any other suit of armor because of lack of supplies. It totally makes sense that Mark IVs and even other suits would start to see these aberrations on them. And over time the repairs gave a certain style that eventually became its own mark.

 

With the explanation of how Mark V actually came about doing it this way seems to make more sense to me. If fact, given the origins of Mark V, I personally don't think it should have a distinct set at all but rather be represented as slight alterations to Mark II-VI (Sorry Captain Semper - I know you like your Mk V :P).

 

Perhaps what FW should do however is make a separate Heresy-era and Pre-Heresy era set for at least the MK IV.

 

EDIT: spu00sed said about the same thing above.

 

The MkV is a distinct mark of armour. Hence it is called Mk V. It is not something it did not exist nor was it a "bits n pieces" of other types. It is a distinct mark. Stop-gap might mean they cut some corners in it's high tech features in favor of production volumes but it was no less a distinct armour Mk!

 

One of it's striking visual features are the studs that are all over the suit... The helmet, the shoulder pad, the legs. That is what gives it a distinct and brutal character. Conversely, up to now, the MkIV was a very sleek and elegant type of armour that was visually more technologically advanced compared the previous versions... Now they bastardize the Mk4 looks and that maybe OK for the sense or realism but it sure enters MKV visual territory... At least the MkV helmet is still pretty distinct shape. :D

 

Now EPK, stay still, I'm trying to take shot! ;)

[Olis]

The MkV is a distinct mark of armour. Hence it is called Mk V. It is not something it did not exist nor was it a "bits n pieces" of other types. It is a distinct mark. Stop-gap might mean they cut some corners in it's high tech features in favor of production volumes but it was no less a distinct armour Mk!

 

Up until recently I would agree with you, however it has been said that the stop gap armour came in many patterns (the Ultramarines and their 'Praetor' suits for example). Granted when people say 'MkV' they visualise 'Heresy' armour but there are other iterations out there. I view the blurring of the lines between MkIV and MkV with great anticipation. What else will be done? Will they make other MkV type armours? Will they diversify the look of MkV? I'm all for it. Variety is the spice of life, as they say. :)

[Don the Oiler]

I believe they're trying to draw an optical line between the clean, "we conquer the galaxy for 4 hours and maintain our wargear for 2 days afterwards" crusade era Marines and the savage "we repair and reinforce our armour with what's lying around because our supply lines are cut" heresy times, the latter not allowing for much uniformity.

The "studization" of mkIV plate makes sense, before donning an armour that's almost entirely made out of inferior parts, you surely try to repair your better suit first. Or maybe the stud reinforcement is a lesson they learned when having to fight other Space Marines. Indeed when i first saw previews of the mkIV assault marines, i thought their suits were supposed to represent the "void hardened" rule.

The funny grill helmet looks like an attempt to explain the abundance of mkVII gear the Traitor Legions seem to have in the 41st millenium though.

[Ordos20]

I believe they're trying to draw an optical line between the clean, "we conquer the galaxy for 4 hours and maintain our wargear for 2 days afterwards" crusade era Marines and the savage "we repair and reinforce our armour with what's lying around because our supply lines are cut" heresy times, the latter not allowing for much uniformity.

The "studization" of mkIV plate makes sense, before donning an armour that's almost entirely made out of inferior parts, you surely try to repair your better suit first. Or maybe the stud reinforcement is a lesson they learned when having to fight other Space Marines. Indeed when i first saw previews of the mkIV assault marines, i thought their suits were supposed to represent the "void hardened" rule.

The funny grill helmet looks like an attempt to explain the abundance of mkVII gear the Traitor Legions seem to have in the 41st millenium though.

 

 

True, I always found it odd that it was just regular marine armour, only slightly "edited". Especially in light of the altered armour marks (somewhere around the 3/4th edition?) BTW odd as well that after the release of the visions of heresy artwork, they still perpetuated the use of Dominus TDA instead of the so often pictured Cataprachtii. I do (STILL!!) feel a ball was dropped there consistency wise

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

if chaos marines had pre-heresy armor in plastics it would have severely hurt the subsequent FW resin sales.

 

i realize BL isn't strictly the end of all argument, but in deliverance lost they specifically point out that mark V isn't a standard set of armor, it's whatever we had laying around, but, with the badab war books giving so many marines mark five, it makes you think. if it was just a stop gap, why are they using it 10k years later?

[Ordos20]

if chaos marines had pre-heresy armor in plastics it would have severely hurt the subsequent FW resin sales.

 

i realize BL isn't strictly the end of all argument, but in deliverance lost they specifically point out that mark V isn't a standard set of armor, it's whatever we had laying around, but, with the badab war books giving so many marines mark five, it makes you think. if it was just a stop gap, why are they using it 10k years later?

 

Mostly because, I guess, all the innovative thinkers were wiped out in the revolt on mars during the heresy. If it works (and was made en-masse) why not use it? And seeing the superstition and downgrade of technology, I would doubt its inferior to current Imperial tech

[TennisBall]

if chaos marines had pre-heresy armor in plastics it would have severely hurt the subsequent FW resin sales.

 

i realize BL isn't strictly the end of all argument, but in deliverance lost they specifically point out that mark V isn't a standard set of armor, it's whatever we had laying around, but, with the badab war books giving so many marines mark five, it makes you think. if it was just a stop gap, why are they using it 10k years later?

Suits from the heresy are revered as sacred artifacts from the time and it's an honour to wear such armour. That's official fluff from somewhere. It's also not impossible that the armour is made to look like heresy armour to remember those times, just like corvus armour kept the look of a studded shoulder pad to remember the heresy even though the studs were no longer needed in armour construction.

There is also a tidbit about how the heresy armour is revered despite the most common place to find MKV armour being amongst the traitor marines as they have to scavenge most of their armour.

I can't comment on the Badab chapters wearing lots of MKV unless it was because they had supply problems and had to kitbash their armour. I suspect it was more to do with FW finding a way to sell marines without duplicating the sets that GW already sold, so they went with earlier marks. Badab is so far after the Heresy that all those earlier looking marks have to be the result of current MKVII suits being made to look like the earlier ones as it's highly unlikely that chapters created long after the heresy would have access to MKIV or genuine MKV suits from that time.

[EPK]

The MkV is a distinct mark of armour. Hence it is called Mk V. It is not something it did not exist nor was it a "bits n pieces" of other types. It is a distinct mark. Stop-gap might mean they cut some corners in it's high tech features in favor of production volumes but it was no less a distinct armour Mk!

 

Up until recently I would agree with you, however it has been said that the stop gap armour came in many patterns (the Ultramarines and their 'Praetor' suits for example). Granted when people say 'MkV' they visualise 'Heresy' armour but there are other iterations out there. I view the blurring of the lines between MkIV and MkV with great anticipation. What else will be done? Will they make other MkV type armours? Will they diversify the look of MkV? I'm all for it. Variety is the spice of life, as they say. :D

 

Yes, I have the same interpretation. Deliverance Lost definitely put a different spin on it. I like the write up on lexicanum. There is even an ote about the helmets being teh weay they are (which apparently was references from a 1990 White Dwarf)

 

It specifically says -

This ad-hoc assemblage of various armour mark segments (including new or unoffical design elements) being created by a multitude of legions resulted in an entirely new mark of armour being 'accidentally' created; these previously non-standard, emergency/stopgap designs were retroactively termed as the Mark V once production of the Mk.IV was halted and the design for the subsequent Corvus Armour mark (Mark VI) was finalised.

I believe it cites Deliverance Lost (but also the White Dwarf I mentioned above).

 

And because of that, I feel that is what FW is trying to represent with their modified Mark IV.

 

So why does FW have a distinct mark V armor set? Because they drew from older GW references - like this. But fluff is still changing and evovling with the Heresy novels (though some might not like them being sources for fluff at all).