Jorre Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 So with the new forgeworld HH rules we have got a taste for what some of the primarchs are like. I though it might be fun to do a bit of wish listing in regards to how you think Sanguinius should compare to them. If you havnt read the rules for Angron, Horus, Fulgrim and Mortarion you can find them on faeit 212 http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/?m=1 I'm thinking he should be along the lines of. Ws 8 know for being one of the most combat proficient primarchs. 8 puts him on par with Horus and Fulgrim. Bs 6 So far the primarchs are all bs 5-6, I gave him a 6 no real justification unless someone else has a better idea. S 6 this seems to be the base line for the primarchs. Sanguinius is know for his finesse not his str. T 6 same as strength. I 9 I would think i9 is plausible being that Fulgrim got an 8 and I imagine Sanguinius to be one of the fastest A 6 I'm not to sure on this one 6 seems reasonable though W 6 on par with the other guys except for Mortarion. Ld 10 obviously Sav 2+ 4++ BA are know for their armour and Sang would have the best of it. As far as special rules go all the primarchs have an impressive set of base rules. In Sanguinius case I would give him. Either flying with vector strike etc (or at least moves as jump infantry) Hit and run Furious charge Rage I was thinking of doing something cool like only allowing rage after a predetermined number of blood angels had died maybe 10 + ?? Also maybe something to represent his ability to see the future. Maybe he gets to reroll a single dice roll a turn. Weapon wise I think he needs a pretty badass sword and inferno pistol. Definitely no spear of telsto! I would love to see some input form other people and how you would represent Sanguinius in comparison to the other primarchs! I know he's the bestest, but let's not go to over the top ;p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I think he would almost definitely have reroll abilities due to his prescience. Either to hit, to wound or even armour saves. Hit and Run, for sure. It's odd for me, but I'm not at all precious about fluff stuff and hardly gave a care to the world with the whole necron bro-fist things..hoooowever - the whole Sanguinius stuff. It's what has inspired me most about the BA. I really hope they treat it with the respect it deserves. Sanguinius was incredibly respected by Horus and even he admitted that Sanguinius should have been the Warmaster. This speaks to an incredibly astute and adept mind as well as combat prowess. Part of me wants Sanguinius (and Horus for obvious background reasons) to stand out above other primarchs. Call me a fanboy, call me biased...I just think that's what the fluff read as. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 The writers surely have a tough job as I am sure all people want their primarch to stand out. The question is how do you make them all stand out from one another without outright making some better than others! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 The writers surely have a tough job as I am sure all people want their primarch to stand out. The question is how do you make them all stand out from one another without outright making some better than others! Well let them be better in certain aspects of the game. I like the above sketch of Jorre's Sanguinius a lot! I think that rage would not really fit him, hatred vs the traitor legions would imho. This is also what Morticon's quote actually would imply (the re-rolls). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 I am a little undecided about the rage myself. How ever after reading Fear to tread it was apparent to me that Sanguinius is portrayed as someone who is seriously effected (more so than other primarch) by the death of his sons. It would be nice to show this in some way on the table top even if you didn't call it rage, but it had a similar effect. Maybe any enemy unit that has killed a Blood angel is hit by Sanguinius on a 2+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I am a little undecided about the rage myself. How ever after reading Fear to tread it was apparent to me that Sanguinius is portrayed as someone who is seriously effected (more so than other primarch) by the death of his sons. It would be nice to show this in some way on the table top even if you didn't call it rage, but it had a similar effect. Maybe any enemy unit that has killed a Blood angel is hit by Sanguinius on a 2+ An option, but quite hard to keep in check... Perhaps he gets range when he's half down his wounds? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 My two pence worth: Surely Sanguinius would have the rules for a FMC? He would have a Glaive/Spear and possibly a Sword of some kind. Very Bulky due to his Wings An ability like Corbulo's, but more than once per game? As the Death Mask was modeled on his features, perhaps a rule to represent that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I'd suggest WS 9 (same as Angron) and I 8 (same as Fulgrim) Sang is fast, but I reckon 9 is a little too fast. He should be on par with Angron for WS as It's mentioned in a few books that Sanguinius is one of the only Primarchs (think theres 3...) to be able to beat Horus in one on on. give him the ability to fly like a monstrous creature (so can vector strike) give him Corbulos Far Seeing Eye ability, but once per game turn instead of once per game. give him sanguine sword psychic power. give him hit and run give him furious charge I'd actually go the opposite route to rage, and have him have a pretty severe negative if too many BAs die in one round. for gear, he should have artificer armour, an iron halo (the sun shaped disk in all his art work), an AP2 sword. An infernus pistol (perhaps name it perdition pistol and give it 12" range like old scholl dante!) and he should have a wrist blade based on latest background. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 That's a good point. Would he have Mastery level 1 or not? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 I don't think I could justify making him a psyker. There is no fluff to show him ever nurturing his psyhic potential. There is only the mention of him seeing glimpses of the future. Perhaps his latent psychic power make him more resistant to psychic attack Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 he can apparently make psychic flame from his sword (hense the sanguine sword suggestion) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venerable Jazzman Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 How about Preferred Enemy against Traitors (ie Chaos Marines and Traitor Guard, but not daemons)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 y'know... I wouldn't be suprised if it goes the exact opposite and he ends up with some benefit vs daemons lol.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Rerolling to hit/wound would be awesome, since he can glimpse the future. Rerolling saves would be over the top I guess, primarchs are pretty hard to kill already.. One Corbulo-reroll per turn would also be pretty amazing, and/or some strategic abilities for your whole army (like repositioning units or something). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venerable Jazzman Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 yeah, re-rolling saves with armour like that would be a bit OTT. I quite like the idea of using his glimpses of the future to reposition units though, maybe allow one unit a free 6" move on successful roll? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixestohit Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 If he ends up AP3 I'll be a very sad BA that's for sure. Quirky wise though, I was just looking through my book and all the Primarchs cause Fear (and have virtually every other beneficial rule known to man, It will not die and so on), this is actually very bad because 30k marines don't have ATSKNF. Maybe Sanguinius could cause Terror in traitor legions... James. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I think his clairvoyance should increase his invulnerable save to 3+ and maybe give his army the option to all outflank/infiltrate to show him out maneuvering his foe with his extreme foresight. I always thought Sanguinius to be an extremely powerful psyker just not in the traditional sense of witchfire and wizardry. The ability to see the future and the more subtle empathetic abilities to rally men to heroism and the ability to see the truth of a situation with a keen emotional sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 The sanguinor should be a good start point, since, well, its gotta be the flip side the red thirst and black rage...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I'm not going to say that Sanguinius was the best Primarch by anyone's understanding, but he was powerful and wise enough to spread fear in the Warmaster's heart, where his brothers didn't. Also, Horus thought him to be the better choice for the Warmaster's rank, if that doesn't speak for Sanguinius as the greatest BAMF in the history of the Imperium, I don't know what does. On to the topic. I think the best presentation of his psychic powers is indeed a special rule similar to Corbulo's, in addition to some re-rolls in close combat or shooting. What I could think of was a psychic power like Sanguine Sword(accidently, the name is fitting! :)) to boost his strength for a turn. Another good power could look like this: an aura (bubble) in which Blood Angels are fearless or maybe re-roll failed leadership tests if they wanted to. Something to represent his presence and his love for his sons. I'd go with Mastery level 2. Magnus would be 3 or 4, I'd think. Another feature of his personality was his love for his sons. In the codex, his background describes him as being very caring for the people around him, for example when Sanguinius was adopted by The Blood which he accepted as him family. When the tribe was attacked by mutants of the radioactive deserts and he felt the danger they were in, he burst out into pure, unfiltered rage and slew all of the mutants to the last man. Therefore: If a Blood Angel falls within 12" (24?) of Sanguinius, he gains the special rules Rage and Fnp for a gameturn. (Quite obsolete with Rage, but FnP is active in the opponent's phase. 12" is probably enough, since FnP might be over the top with his stats and armour and re-rolls and whatnot. Maybe rage would do just fine. Preferred enemy: Chaos, because at Gate Ultima he broke Ka'bandha's spine over his knee and held back a deamon army with his legion. Works for both Traitor marines and deamons. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Bear in mind all the legions are blank slates: Sanguinius: Gives all BA models with jump packs Descent of Angels. Inspiring presence; All models within 12" of sanguinius reroll failed to hit rolls on the turn they charge into combat The Far seeing eye - 3+ invulnerable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 Just had a really cool idea for a special rule assuming he can fly. I'd call it "Only Angels can fly" (Fear to tread ref for those that have read it). Sanguinius owns the skys! To represent this Sanguinius can preform a vector strike vs flyers or FMC at str 10 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 All winged primarchs should count as FMCs to be honest Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 To represent his superior maneuverability, Sanguinius may charge even when moving in swooping mode that would be awesome as well:P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3188599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostclaw222 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I don't think Sanguinius should get too uber. The FMC thing puts him above and beyond the others right off the bat, and adding in the prescience ability (though justifiable) is just going to make him more powerful. Maybe work it into his invulnerability save like suggested above, or even as a fallback invul dodge save like Ragnar's, but that works regardless of weapons that negate invulnerability usually? That way, the latent psy has impact, but doesn't go overboard. I'd suggest bringing his I down a bit, maybe tamping down A and giving it a bonus when x number of his sons die within a game turn with some sort of drawback. Gotta remember, while he should be able to ride herd on a Bloodthirster, he shouldn't be able to drop one like a bad habit, given the Signus fluff. Also remember that the "primarch" label comes with all sorts of USRs right out of the box, like fleet and Eternal Warrior. Definitely, he should be one of the more powerful primarchs. He should be able to go toe-to-toe with the Betrayal version of Horus without breaking too much of a sweat, but the latter day, Chaos-steeped Horus should be able to drop him and still have enough left for the follow-on match with Dad. Just my two cents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3190614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokhar Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Two words: Heroic Intervention. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261899-sanguinius/#findComment-3190773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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