Azekai Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Take the most popular HQ choice of the last codex (of which most chaos players have at least one if not two) and make them (one of) the least popular HQ choices so people will go out and buy the new expensive finecast Warpsmiths and Apostles. Subtle. This crossed my mind as well. All I know is that we need Eternal Warrior. A 300-400 beatstick that can be deep-fried by a thuderhammer or libby is laughably stupid. I can bite the bullet and field some expensive daemons, and then make up for it by fielding cheap and cheerful troops (yay cultists). I did this with the old codex- DPs were cheap so I felt justified spending some points on a few overcosted options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 Maybe I am overreacting a bit about the loss of EW but it really upsets me. Maybe I am too but it really doesn't make sense to take that away from them... This crossed my mind as well. All I know is that we need Eternal Warrior. A 300-400 beatstick that can be deep-fried by a thuderhammer or libby is laughably stupid. Completely agree here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I believe giving DPs Ld9 when Lords have 10 is to make them natural warlords when included(the lords, that is, hehe)... Chaos was first with many things over the years, but that don't mean we'll get any of it back though(havoc launchers on dreads, champions in terminator armour, dark/relic blades and chaos armour amongst others), but I'd wait with any verdict before we have seen the wargear options... If they are crap I'll be in the line that says that they are for sure, but I need to see some options and costs before I do that... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Unless there's some way to buy EW for the princes from the armory they are more or less a dead entry in any competitive enviroment.Add to that the dramatic point increase and the LD9 (which makes them very unreliable psykers). See what GW did there? Take the most popular HQ choice of the last codex (of which most chaos players have at least one if not two) and make them (one of) the least popular HQ choices so people will go out and buy the new expensive finecast Warpsmiths and Apostles. Subtle. Anybody know if they can take veterans of the long war? EDIT: Ok I guess they will actually have LD 10 because of veterans of the long war. Please allow me a moment of extra-cynicism: Also notice that Daemon Princes can be grounded, but not the brand-new Heldrake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 At the moment, I'm sticking with a lean and mean approach. Minimal upgrades at the start of list building then add more if I have spare points remaining. By far the best approach when it comes to something like this. I cant see the images at work, but wanted to verify with you all that the daemon prince HAS to take a mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circus Nurgling Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 To add into the Eternal Warrior debate: it looks like they're trying to make the prince comparable to the ones in Codex: Daemons. If this is the case, all Daemons have the Eternal Warrior special rule, so there may be hope for that, assuming they don't define Daemon differently across codexes. You have to buy armor in that codex as well... it's costly, but it makes me play quite conservatively with my DP from that codex when I don't buy it (which is most of the time as I rely on the Mark of Nurgle to keep wounds from happening in the first place). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 To add into the Eternal Warrior debate: it looks like they're trying to make the prince comparable to the ones in Codex: Daemons. If this is the case, all Daemons have the Eternal Warrior special rule, so there may be hope for that, assuming they don't define Daemon differently across codexes. You have to buy armor in that codex as well... it's costly, but it makes me play quite conservatively with my DP from that codex when I don't buy it (which is most of the time as I rely on the Mark of Nurgle to keep wounds from happening in the first place). Except they do have a different daemon definition in the main rule book, one that does not include the bailiwicks of the daemon codex such as Daemonic Assault and Eternal Warrior. If we do not get it Daemon Princes will be downgraded from costly YMMV monstrosities to crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I 100% agree that they should have EW but I don't believe its as bad as some may feel. We are still naturally protected from S8/9 weapons which are the majority of heavy weapons and marks can increase that protection further. It is worse than before but did anyone think DPs weren't going to be toned down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
space wolf Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I 100% agree that they should have EW but I don't believe its as bad as some may feel. We are still naturally protected from S8/9 weapons which are the majority of heavy weapons and marks can increase that protection further. It is worse than before but did anyone think DPs weren't going to be toned down? Agreed. They were dirt cheap. I for one hated dealing with multiple DP's. And now that they can swoop, they are even nastier. I think they should be toned down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I expected the cost to go way up, which it did, and that's fine. But losing EW at the same time really makes them way too fragile, given their new asking price. I expect my own daemon prince will be reserved for rare eye of the gods results, rather than something I include in my lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 I'm curious though about the chaos gifts that they're able to take. Of all the authors, Phil Kelly was the one that gave SW the option to get EW. I'm wondering if maybe we'll get that option, after all if anyone deserves it its us over the space pups. (Also trying to be optimistic.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 To be honest, I think the best thing to do would be to rely on the Chaos Boons table to field a prince. You'd probably be more likely to boost your lord to decent proportions and then get a daemon prince on the field, virtually for free and who already has at least one roll on the table. Even if you get it on the first roll, it's definitely cheaper. And I think this might be why their more expensive as well since DP is an option on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 For the points cost, I think (for me at least) that Daemon Princes will move into the realm of "Modelling Project" and "3rd+ HQ choice" for 2000pts+ games. This is unfortunate, since my trusty Nurgle Daemon Prince has been a central part of my army of The Purge. I'm not happy about the Must take a mark of a chaos god, both from the added points cost and the fact that I still haven't adapted to the new paradigm. I mean, my Liber Chaotica has a whole chapter on Chaos Undivided :) However, once we have the wargear options in front of us, there may be some more inspiring options, but I will miss the good il' days of the inexpensive flying bullet sponge. Didnt realize you had to take a mark on the Princes now, if that is the case I wont be running one :*( He can..have been unwillingly blessed by a deity, like Tzeentch (would fit Tzeentchs humour exalting someone who REALLY doesn`t want to lose their mortality and freedom!), and despise his creator with a vengeance :) Sure thats not an option for you when you consider it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 To be honest, I think the best thing to do would be to rely on the Chaos Boons table to field a prince. You'd probably be more likely to boost your lord to decent proportions and then get a daemon prince on the field, virtually for free and who already has at least one roll on the table. Even if you get it on the first roll, it's definitely cheaper. And I think this might be why their more expensive as well since DP is an option on the table. The boon table is only activated when the character kills another character right? Or a squad? Either way, they'll probably only get a couple rolls each if that. Princes will still be useful if only because they're FMCs. People are just too used to super cheap and amazing princes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Unless there's some way to buy EW for the princes from the armory they are more or less a dead entry in any competitive enviroment.Add to that the dramatic point increase and the LD9 (which makes them very unreliable psykers). See what GW did there? Take the most popular HQ choice of the last codex (of which most chaos players have at least one if not two) and make them (one of) the least popular HQ choices so people will go out and buy the new expensive finecast Warpsmiths and Apostles. Subtle. Anybody know if they can take veterans of the long war? EDIT: Ok I guess they will actually have LD 10 because of veterans of the long war. As to LD 9, have you seen the scanned page where the little imp (fammiliar) which makes you able to re-roll failed psyk tests is found? I have. I suspect daemons can take it as well as sorcerers, and I also happen to assume that Eternal Warrior can be bought as a Chaos gift (I dont know that though!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 To be honest, I think the best thing to do would be to rely on the Chaos Boons table to field a prince. You'd probably be more likely to boost your lord to decent proportions and then get a daemon prince on the field, virtually for free and who already has at least one roll on the table. Even if you get it on the first roll, it's definitely cheaper. And I think this might be why their more expensive as well since DP is an option on the table. The boon table is only activated when the character kills another character right? Or a squad? Either way, they'll probably only get a couple rolls each if that. Princes will still be useful if only because they're FMCs. People are just too used to super cheap and amazing princes. Yes, although both champions and lords can become daemon princes before start of game if they pay to roll that table. They may however also become spawns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal.Lictor Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 So, this is what I am gonna do, make a CD ally and have a "DP" from that dex (you get EW), flamer and pink horror deamons. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 So, this is what I am gonna do, make a CD ally and have a "DP" from that dex (you get EW), flamer and pink horror deamons. Done. DPs are heavy support in C:daemons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal.Lictor Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Bah, so much for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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