Congratulations, Heretics and Traitors . . .

[Iron Sage]

How many games have you play tested to see how noncompetitive it is? Just curious. . .

 

There are a TON of bright spots in the rumors, though I could sit here and list them I wont change your mind because you are set in your thought process already.

 

chaos space marines, our staple unit, seems good and very customizable now. You have to pay one point per model to make them have their old LD; but then they happen to get Hatred: Space Marines as well.

Plague Marines are up one point, but get plagueknives and will therefore butcher puny stuff that assaults it and not become bogged down which sometimes happened in the gav dex. I say they are as good as before. So no change there.

Sons. No change.

What we know of Slaneesh cult marines makes them sound like they are way, way better than before. So there is another positive.

Next, the Warsmith looks pretty good. Looks like it has a lot of options to make it better as well. Positive again.

All the Special Warlord traits in the new dex are WAY better than those in the Rule Book. Only sucks if you roll Black Crusader when not playing Space Marines, but thats the only situational one if I remember correctly from the scan. Surely thats VERY positive?

Possessed. Seems weak. Hope we are missing something on it. But they suck less than before at the very least, though still not positive.

Defiler. More expensive they all say. Going to cost around 200 points. But it now comes with +5 Invul and It Will Not Die, so I dont know if its worse at all. I think its decent.

Fiend thing. Sounds very, very useful. Thats a positive factor again.

Dragon has an awsome anti infantry weapon, and 170 points is not that expensive. IMO positive. Havocs: Better, and clearly so. Positive again.

Icons? Most of them are actually very good! Some are not so good.

Dread: Better now. Can now be used. Clearly positive,

Mauler fiend. Seems very agressive and good.

Daemon Prince: Going to be expensive and very much so, but we dont yet know its options, only that its going to cost a lot. So Unknown on Daemon Prince.

Raptors: Better now according to rumours.

Terminators. From what we have heard, they will be decent at least.

Mutilators: underwhelming.

Warp Talon: Jury is still out and no judgement yet. 30 points jump infantry with lightning claws.

Dark Apostle: We dont know all its options, so its an unknown.

Sorcerer: We know its dirt cheap and comes with a force weapon for 60 points. Positive surely?

Bikes anyone? 90 for 3 including champ and then 20 points per model? Lol, thats ridiculously cheap !

 

So yes indeed, Smurf, you are very correct.

 

 

Edit: And guys....Ahriman....Seriously? Way better than before.

 

 

There are some things that bug me I admit. The Daemon Prince MUST take a mark really erks the crap out of me as a purist Word Bearer player, means I probably will never run one. Possessed are indeed very poor sounding from the pics that were leaked, in fact i would say that they are overall worse than they were before unless there something that is being missed. To be honest, that is about all that really gets me, I even think Mutilators will find their place and do okay for themselves. Just a feeling, but we will see. :D

 

One thing I think we all can agree on is a bit of excitement about the possibility of it all.

 

I agree, the bit about possessed bugs me out too. The marks on the princes not so much, but I can understand that you think so !

[Danny Cyanide]

So far the new Codex looks like precisely what I wanted! THe power level is not looking like it's going to be through the roof, so there shouldn't be thousands of Power Gamers jumping to Chaos, but it doesn't look any weaker than the current bland dex. What does look great so far is that there appear to be many viable options, so we should have multiple strong builds, and not have to default to Nurgle DP + Plague Marines and Oblits in order to have a strong showing!

 

There appear to be so many fun builds possible with what we know so far! Here are some that I'm looking forward to trying:

 

Typhus Zombie list:

 

Typhus

2 squads Plague Marines

4 full squads of zombies (140 of the buggers)

Some Nurgle Bikers

Maybee a Daemon Engine or 2?

 

Infiltrating Arhiman:

 

Arhiman

Infiltrating Thousand Sons (2 squads and 1 squad of Apprentice/Aspiring Sorcerers (CSM squad Mark of T, 2 plasma gun counts as sorcerers))

Heldrake (Welcome back to Epic)

4 Oblits modeled as sorcerers in Termie Armour

 

So with counts as, I'll get 9 Sorcerers in my 1K Sons list!)

 

Night Lords Raptor Attack

 

Jump Lord

2 squads Raptors

1 Squad Warp Tallons

CSM Troops with Rhinos

Predators

 

Iron Warriors Siege List:

 

Lord

Warpsmith

2 Squads CSM

2 Forgefeind

 

IG Allies:

2 Vet squads with plasma

2 Bassilisk

1 Manticore

 

Black Legion Chosen:

 

Abaddon with Termie Retune

3 squads Chosen

Bikes

Sprinkle on some of whatever else tickles your fancy

 

Alpha Legion Cultist attack:

 

Lord

4 squads Cultists

2 squads CSM or Chosen

Helbrute

Heldrake

Bikers

 

Chaos Zilla:

 

1 DP from Chaos Book

2 squads CSM

Codex Daemons Bloodthirster or Lord of Change

Codex Daemons Bloodthirster or Lord of Change

2 squads Daemon troops

Daemon DP

Daemon DP

Daemon DP

 

Personally, especially with allies, I think that this is going to be one hell of a fun book! I'm also excited that I can build Khorne Marked CSM with BP/CCW and give them flamers for my World Eaters, and real marked Havoc's again!!! Happy day!

[Iron Sage]

So far the new Codex looks like precisely what I wanted! THe power level is not looking like it's going to be through the roof, so there shouldn't be thousands of Power Gamers jumping to Chaos, but it doesn't look any weaker than the current bland dex. What does look great so far is that there appear to be many viable options, so we should have multiple strong builds, and not have to default to Nurgle DP + Plague Marines and Oblits in order to have a strong showing!

 

There appear to be so many fun builds possible with what we know so far! Here are some that I'm looking forward to trying:

 

Typhus Zombie list:

 

Typhus

2 squads Plague Marines

4 full squads of zombies (140 of the buggers)

Some Nurgle Bikers

Maybee a Daemon Engine or 2?

 

Infiltrating Arhiman:

 

Arhiman

Infiltrating Thousand Sons (2 squads and 1 squad of Apprentice/Aspiring Sorcerers (CSM squad Mark of T, 2 plasma gun counts as sorcerers))

Heldrake (Welcome back to Epic)

4 Oblits modeled as sorcerers in Termie Armour

 

So with counts as, I'll get 9 Sorcerers in my 1K Sons list!)

 

Night Lords Raptor Attack

 

Jump Lord

2 squads Raptors

1 Squad Warp Tallons

CSM Troops with Rhinos

Predators

 

Iron Warriors Siege List:

 

Lord

Warpsmith

2 Squads CSM

2 Forgefeind

 

IG Allies:

2 Vet squads with plasma

2 Bassilisk

1 Manticore

 

Black Legion Chosen:

 

Abaddon with Termie Retune

3 squads Chosen

Bikes

Sprinkle on some of whatever else tickles your fancy

 

Alpha Legion Cultist attack:

 

Lord

4 squads Cultists

2 squads CSM or Chosen

Helbrute

Heldrake

Bikers

 

Chaos Zilla:

 

1 DP from Chaos Book

2 squads CSM

Codex Daemons Bloodthirster or Lord of Change

Codex Daemons Bloodthirster or Lord of Change

2 squads Daemon troops

Daemon DP

Daemon DP

Daemon DP

 

Personally, especially with allies, I think that this is going to be one hell of a fun book! I'm also excited that I can build Khorne Marked CSM with BP/CCW and give them flamers for my World Eaters, and real marked Havoc's again!!! Happy day!

Spot on 100%! I am surprised that not more people can see this.

 

As a side note, Ahriman can infiltrate obliterators and terminators, making footslogging terminators viable (not every one of you considered that I bet!)

[Danny Cyanide]

Spot on 100%! I am surprised that not more people can see this.

 

As a side note, Ahriman can infiltrate obliterators and terminators, making footslogging terminators viable (not every one of you considered that I bet!)

 

OOOH! Good call! Infiltrating Pyre Sorcerers of doom!

 

Honestly though, I'm so jacked up for the apparent variety that this codex will give us as Chaos players!

[khurdur]

well lads, I myself am an ex-disgruntled chaos general, I played some loyalist blood angels during the gavdex era, and I'm VERY excited about the new book. I don't think there is any need to be so pessimistic about the rumours. Our book was rather poor, and this can ONLY be a turn for the better. But, lets look at the rumours logically, and I think I'm fairly unbiased to see thing as they are, but remember these are still rumours, solid yes at this advanced stage, but still there many thing we don't know.

 

Lets see:

 

chaos marines-cheaper, and ability to take marks(that can't be lost) and icons, and veteraon of the long war for laughs. I think they are better.

Plague marines-used to kick ass, I think they still will from what we saw with poisoned weapons. still a solid choice.

Ksons-as before, so perhaps still not an awesome choice.

Noise marines-cheaper and with salvo shots...definately better

Berzerkers-just as much slaughter, and counter-attack, for 3-4 points less, ignoring AP4 and hatred for marines-awesome. Much better.

Mutilators-so/so, but give them a mark and they'll be fine.

termies-same as before, so fairly solid

 

Possessed. Better than before, but still expensive. Meh I'd say

chosen-solid I'd say as before

dreadnought-better than before-more options and more controllable

 

Forgefiend-good I'd say...8 S8 shot anyone?? but not broken

Maulerfiend-even better, true only AV12 but runs like hell

Defiler-worse I'd say. 195p is just too much for an AV12 shooting platform, even with a 5++

Land raider-the same I think.

Oblits-unknown, but I think I saw they keep all the weapons, for 5 points less, and can take a mark. Meaning, MoTZ and a 4++, meaning they can shoot it out with most gunlines. A definate thumbs-up.

The helldrake seems interesting, but I can't help comparing it to the stormraven that just shoots so much harder, for only 30 points more and can transport men to boot. Though our S10 drive-by seems interesting. I'll reserve judgement for when I'll see the book, but it seems average, not hardcore.

 

Warp talons seem ok.

Raptors are better.

Bikes are much better.

 

And HQ, chaos lords are looking very solid with a 2+ and 4++ options not counting MoTZ, DPs good but you pay for it, sorcerors are too cheap to be bad, and warpsmith and dark apostle we gotta see them first to judge.

 

so, I think we have cause for celebration! Looks like a solid book, but not broken !

Agree obviosuly, since you say more or less the same as I did. But cheack out the prince thread. There is a picture of the rules for warpsmith there, so its a known factor (though not what it can take in the armory)

 

I did mention some things you didn't :D but yeah an unbiased view on our stuff is this...generally positive...

[Iron Sage]

As far as I know both Terminators and Obliterators are classified as "Infantry". "Master of Deception" makes you able to Inflitrate D3 Infantry units, so this should work out :D

[khurdur]

plus our spec characters all look awesome, abby, Khârn, typhus and Ahriman are all useable now...

Khârn with 7 S6 attacks with hatred...like the 5th edition chaplain lemartes almost :D

[Kol Saresk]

No, Termies are eliyes and Oblits are heavy support.

[Iron Sage]

As Smurfalypse said elsewhere, this codex seems to be full of sollutions that will make you able to out preassure on the enemy early.

 

plus our spec characters all look awesome, abby, Khârn, typhus and Ahriman are all useable now...

Khârn with 7 S6 attacks with hatred...like the 5th edition chaplain lemartes almost :D

No, Termies are eliyes and Oblits are heavy support.

 

 

???

 

Elites and Heavy Support? But that doesnt matter. If they are "Infantry" Units, they are Infantry Units.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Um, Kol? Did you quote the wrong post? And even if you did mean to quote the one above it, the fact that Termies and Oblits aren't Troops has nothing to do with the fact that their unit type is Infantry and thus can be infiltrated by Ahriman.

[Kol Saresk]

So far the new Codex looks like precisely what I wanted! THe power level is not looking like it's going to be through the roof, so there shouldn't be thousands of Power Gamers jumping to Chaos, but it doesn't look any weaker than the current bland dex. What does look great so far is that there appear to be many viable options, so we should have multiple strong builds, and not have to default to Nurgle DP + Plague Marines and Oblits in order to have a strong showing!

 

There appear to be so many fun builds possible with what we know so far! Here are some that I'm looking forward to trying:

 

Typhus Zombie list:

 

Typhus

2 squads Plague Marines

4 full squads of zombies (140 of the buggers)

Some Nurgle Bikers

Maybee a Daemon Engine or 2?

 

Infiltrating Arhiman:

 

Arhiman

Infiltrating Thousand Sons (2 squads and 1 squad of Apprentice/Aspiring Sorcerers (CSM squad Mark of T, 2 plasma gun counts as sorcerers))

Heldrake (Welcome back to Epic)

4 Oblits modeled as sorcerers in Termie Armour

 

So with counts as, I'll get 9 Sorcerers in my 1K Sons list!)

 

Night Lords Raptor Attack

 

Jump Lord

2 squads Raptors

1 Squad Warp Tallons

CSM Troops with Rhinos

Predators

 

Iron Warriors Siege List:

 

Lord

Warpsmith

2 Squads CSM

2 Forgefeind

 

IG Allies:

2 Vet squads with plasma

2 Bassilisk

1 Manticore

 

Black Legion Chosen:

 

Abaddon with Termie Retune

3 squads Chosen

Bikes

Sprinkle on some of whatever else tickles your fancy

 

Alpha Legion Cultist attack:

 

Lord

4 squads Cultists

2 squads CSM or Chosen

Helbrute

Heldrake

Bikers

 

Chaos Zilla:

 

1 DP from Chaos Book

2 squads CSM

Codex Daemons Bloodthirster or Lord of Change

Codex Daemons Bloodthirster or Lord of Change

2 squads Daemon troops

Daemon DP

Daemon DP

Daemon DP

 

Personally, especially with allies, I think that this is going to be one hell of a fun book! I'm also excited that I can build Khorne Marked CSM with BP/CCW and give them flamers for my World Eaters, and real marked Havoc's again!!! Happy day!

 

Bold: I want this!

 

By the way, where did you find these lists?

[Iron Sage]

Um, Kol? Did you quote the wrong post? And even if you did mean to quote the one above it, the fact that Termies and Oblits aren't Troops has nothing to do with the fact that their unit type is Infantry and thus can be infiltrated by Ahriman.

 

*Nods*

 

Infiltrating Terminators, now that sounds pretty awesome to me!

[Azekai]

Well, I certainly see that I am in the minority here . . . I pray you gentlemen are right. I just honestly think that when the excitement wears off and the dust settles, we will still have a comparatively weak dex, and the fundamental problems with our faction will remain.

 

Of course, I do serve Nurgle, so that might be affecting my outlook and disposition. Being sunny and positive just does not come naturally. :D

[Plaguecaster]

I will defiantly do the Typhus Zombie list would be very fluffy and fun to play with , though would take a sorcerer as well plus Defilers and Blight Drones as well, now to buy a bulk load of zombies

[Iron Sage]

Well, I certainly see that I am in the minority here . . . I pray you gentlemen are right. I just honestly think that when the excitement wears off and the dust settles, we will still have a comparatively weak dex, and the fundamental problems with our faction will remain.

 

Of course, I do serve Nurgle, so that might be affecting my outlook and disposition. Being sunny and positive just does not come naturally. :D

 

Lol!

 

Alright, your allowed to be predicting doom with more than a touch of gloom, and I am certainly not going to ridicule you for that. But I personally can see a lot of fun and exciting things in the leaks we have access to, and as you see above, one can build some really fun lists here.

 

Obviously, I think your very wrong and all of this is way pre-mature for you to worry judge but I already told you that earlier.

[Smurfalypse]

I agree, the bit about possessed bugs me out too. The marks on the princes not so much, but I can understand that you think so !

 

I think the princes will be good to great, much like they were in 3.5, expensive but dominant. I just cannot stand a mark of any of the gods in my Word Bearers lists, so it sorta shuts me down on taking them since i am forced to go against that :D

 

I will however turn my full attention to the Lord and one of the lesser HQs (Probably the Apostle).

[Kol Saresk]

Um, Kol? Did you quote the wrong post? And even if you did mean to quote the one above it, the fact that Termies and Oblits aren't Troops has nothing to do with the fact that their unit type is Infantry and thus can be infiltrated by Ahriman.

 

*Nods*

 

Infiltrating Terminators, now that sounds pretty awesome to me!

Yes I did, when I did it, the post above it was the last post and I guess it was updated and B&C had a brainfart or something because I came back and there was definitely a different post than the one I meant quote. I do apologize.

 

EDIT: For some reason I saw Infantry I thought Troops I'm sorry. It's been a really long day for me. Maybe I'm the only one having brainfarts.

[Iron Sage]

I agree, the bit about possessed bugs me out too. The marks on the princes not so much, but I can understand that you think so !

 

I think the princes will be good to great, much like they were in 3.5, expensive but dominant. I just cannot stand a mark of any of the gods in my Word Bearers lists, so it sorta shuts me down on taking them since i am forced to go against that :D

 

I will however turn my full attention to the Lord and one of the lesser HQs (Probably the Apostle).

 

Hmm, but what do you think about my suggestion concerning how you could use one? For ease of reference, here is what I said on the other thread: "He can..have been unwillingly blessed by a deity, like Tzeentch (would fit Tzeentchs humour exalting someone who REALLY doesn`t want to lose their mortality and freedom!), and despise his creator with a vengeance smile.gif Sure thats not an option for you when you consider it? "

 

Curious as to what you think about such an approach, Smurf.

[darknightdrako]

How many years did the Space Wovles, GK and Necrons have to wait for an update? How powerful were they before they became a 5th/6th ed dex? Maybe the reason why they are powerful now is that they wont have another update for another long time.

[Smurfalypse]

Well, I certainly see that I am in the minority here . . . I pray you gentlemen are right. I just honestly think that when the excitement wears off and the dust settles, we will still have a comparatively weak dex, and the fundamental problems with our faction will remain.

 

Of course, I do serve Nurgle, so that might be affecting my outlook and disposition. Being sunny and positive just does not come naturally. :P

 

There is a big difference with this release and the 4.0 one. Even back then when all the stuff started coming out, you could see how crappy it was going to be from a mile away. I don't see that with this dex, there are a few things that bother me a bit but two or three sub par units does not a bad codex make. Necron have their fair share of trash units and they do just fine for themselves.

[Kol Saresk]

I agree, the bit about possessed bugs me out too. The marks on the princes not so much, but I can understand that you think so !

 

I think the princes will be good to great, much like they were in 3.5, expensive but dominant. I just cannot stand a mark of any of the gods in my Word Bearers lists, so it sorta shuts me down on taking them since i am forced to go against that :P

 

I will however turn my full attention to the Lord and one of the lesser HQs (Probably the Apostle).

 

Hmm, but what do you think about my suggestion concerning how you could use one? For ease of reference, here is what I said on the other thread: "He can..have been unwillingly blessed by a deity, like Tzeentch (would fit Tzeentchs humour exalting someone who REALLY doesn`t want to lose their mortality and freedom!), and despise his creator with a vengeance smile.gif Sure thats not an option for you when you consider it? "

 

Curious as to what you think about such an approach, Smurf.

Also, being a Word Bearer means that are devoted to all Four. It does not mean that all Four have to be devoted to you, if at all. You may worship all four, but only one may respond and grant blessings. And that's the story behind your mark.

[Azekai]

Not sure what the gaming situation of your area is, Smurfalypse, but I would be more than happy to let you play with an unmarked Prince; I don't think that is much of a sacrifice for your opponent (they might even be secretly relieved)!

 

And thanks for allowing me to keep ranting from my dingy little corner, Iron Sage. It's all I've got left . . . well, that and boils. Anyone want some boils?

[Danny Cyanide]

Bold: I want this!

 

By the way, where did you find these lists?

 

I found these lists the same place I find all my lists! In my mind! (Insert evil laughter!)

 

I've actually got the Night Lords Force almost finished. Just need some of the new Raptors and I'm good! Check out my Black Crusade thread in my sig to see them!

[Smurfalypse]

I agree, the bit about possessed bugs me out too. The marks on the princes not so much, but I can understand that you think so !

 

I think the princes will be good to great, much like they were in 3.5, expensive but dominant. I just cannot stand a mark of any of the gods in my Word Bearers lists, so it sorta shuts me down on taking them since i am forced to go against that :P

 

I will however turn my full attention to the Lord and one of the lesser HQs (Probably the Apostle).

 

Hmm, but what do you think about my suggestion concerning how you could use one? For ease of reference, here is what I said on the other thread: "He can..have been unwillingly blessed by a deity, like Tzeentch (would fit Tzeentchs humour exalting someone who REALLY doesn`t want to lose their mortality and freedom!), and despise his creator with a vengeance smile.gif Sure thats not an option for you when you consider it? "

 

Curious as to what you think about such an approach, Smurf.

 

lol wont happen, no amount of fluff or anything will ever make me take a mark in my Word Bearers army :P I wont cry about it though, a Lord will do just fine as my primary HQ.

 

Even when I take Daemon allies you will see that I represent each god with a single unit and no more (I have some fairly recent army lists i put up a few weeks ago). I am a purist WB =x

[Iron Sage]

I agree, the bit about possessed bugs me out too. The marks on the princes not so much, but I can understand that you think so !

 

I think the princes will be good to great, much like they were in 3.5, expensive but dominant. I just cannot stand a mark of any of the gods in my Word Bearers lists, so it sorta shuts me down on taking them since i am forced to go against that :P

 

I will however turn my full attention to the Lord and one of the lesser HQs (Probably the Apostle).

 

Hmm, but what do you think about my suggestion concerning how you could use one? For ease of reference, here is what I said on the other thread: "He can..have been unwillingly blessed by a deity, like Tzeentch (would fit Tzeentchs humour exalting someone who REALLY doesn`t want to lose their mortality and freedom!), and despise his creator with a vengeance smile.gif Sure thats not an option for you when you consider it? "

 

Curious as to what you think about such an approach, Smurf.

 

lol wont happen, no amount of fluff or anything will ever make me take a mark in my Word Bearers army :P I wont cry about it though, a Lord will do just fine as my primary HQ.

 

Even when I take Daemon allies you will see that I represent each god with a single unit and no more (I have some fairly recent army lists i put up a few weeks ago). I am a purist WB =x

 

Haha, thats alright. IMO your limiting yourself using self inflicted technicalities which can easilly be broken in fluffy ways, but I respect your choice!