Kol Saresk Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 But Purist Word Bearers do accept Marks. They don't let the Marks individualize their worship, but they do accept them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 But Purist Word Bearers do accept Marks. They don't let the Marks individualize their worship, but they do accept them. Not so with the dreaded and much maligned, Cult of the Smufalypse :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Not sure what the gaming situation of your area is, Smurfalypse, but I would be more than happy to let you play with an unmarked Prince; I don't think that is much of a sacrifice for your opponent (they might even be secretly relieved)! And thanks for allowing me to keep ranting from my dingy little corner, Iron Sage. It's all I've got left . . . well, that and boils. Anyone want some boils? Yeah, i am sure my friends would let me do it as well (though I would pay points for the cheapest mark and not use the abilities that come with it), but I do play in some tournaments so I would need to get used to running things the way I play with them casually. I like the Princes, but it is seriously not a huge deal. The Lords sounds like they may be beastly and have some good effects on your entire army. I am secretly hoping that there is a Lance Daemon Weapon that we can take, I totally want to model up a lord with one of the new jump packs and have him wielding the Daemonic Lance, have him running around with a Raptor squad and just throw yourself at everything that is within range. "and just throw yourself at everything that is within range" This is also why I have been banned from a few of the local bars :*( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Not sure what the gaming situation of your area is, Smurfalypse, but I would be more than happy to let you play with an unmarked Prince; I don't think that is much of a sacrifice for your opponent (they might even be secretly relieved)! And thanks for allowing me to keep ranting from my dingy little corner, Iron Sage. It's all I've got left . . . well, that and boils. Anyone want some boils? Yeah, i am sure my friends would let me do it as well (though I would pay points for the cheapest mark and not use the abilities that come with it), but I do play in some tournaments so I would need to get used to running things the way I play with them casually. I like the Princes, but it is seriously not a huge deal. The Lords sounds like they may be beastly and have some good effects on your entire army. I am secretly hoping that there is a Lance Daemon Weapon that we can take, I totally want to model up a lord with one of the new jump packs and have him wielding the Daemonic Lance, have him running around with a Raptor squad and just throw yourself at everything that is within range. "and just throw yourself at everything that is within range" This is also why I have been banned from a few of the local bars :*( There are some rumours about lash shooting attack. I really, really look forward to seeing that armoury and Rewards/Gifts list! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Yeah, getting the armory back was a massive (good) surprise. I had literally not seen anything mentioning it in any of the rumors going back a full year. Just hope it is full of tons of goodies :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Tyranids seems...a bit much for a comparison. Agreed, we're not getting the Grey Knight treatment, smashing up the metagame and causing teeth to wail and gnash 'cross all of gamerdom, but that's okay to me, because the book seems solid. The infinitely customizable Chaos Space Marine can, equipped properly, go up against most others Troop choices, and mop the floor with them if used right. Fiends, both Forge and Mauler, seem to have their place. Cheap, Autocannoned Havocs can wreck hell on anything under ARM 13. The Cults all seem to have their own advantages, barring the ever-lamentable Thousand Sons, who seem to have been paying an in-game price for Ahriman's chuff since the Mezozoic. Very little seems useless, and most everything excels within its niche, which is just about the only sane way to approach a Codex as broad as Chaos absolutely needs to be. All in all, I'm pleased with the direction the book's taking. All indications seem to be that GW is taking the same approach to 6th Edition 40K's Codexes as they have to 8th Edition Fantasy's Army Books, eschewing the overpowered for the useful, and striving for balance in new material, even if old armies still cause problems. It's a sight better than 40K 5th's "fight fire with bigger fire" approach to army balance. Now let's just hope it holds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 But Purist Word Bearers do accept Marks. They don't let the Marks individualize their worship, but they do accept them. Not so with the dreaded and much maligned, Cult of the Smufalypse :P Indeed, it is a line I will never cross :P It is something I have been doing since second edition so not gonna change. Don't get me wrong, I don't gripe at people who play WB and do use marks, doesn't bother me in the slightest. It is just my personal thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 i dont know about you guys but I plan on making a chaos horde. 120 cultists for about 600pts, then filling the rest of my list with elite chaos stuff. I have no idea how anyone could think that would be a bad list :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 i dont know about you guys but I plan on making a chaos horde. 120 cultists for about 600pts, then filling the rest of my list with elite chaos stuff. I have no idea how anyone could think that would be a bad list :/ lol Jeeezus! That is a pile of manz. I probably will just run two units of 20-30 ish with no upgrades. . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 i dont know about you guys but I plan on making a chaos horde. 120 cultists for about 600pts, then filling the rest of my list with elite chaos stuff. I have no idea how anyone could think that would be a bad list :/ lol Jeeezus! That is a pile of manz. I probably will just run two units of 20-30 ish with no upgrades. . . yes i imagine its going to end up like my orks. a pile of unpainted guys next to a suicide note. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I probably will try to run one unit of 20 to test them (will have to ask my friends if they are okay if I proxy 10 of the 20 since I will be playing with the Dark vengeance set of cultists where 10 comes with rifles and 10 with 2 cc) out a bit before I buy boxes of cultist. I have so much new stuff now that I have yet to try fielding. Like 3 Hellbrutes/dreadnoughts and 2 defilers. Need to either proxy my warmith into a warpmisth or buy the new model. Hmm... I see a lot I can do with the new codex with the models I already own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 i dont know about you guys but I plan on making a chaos horde. 120 cultists for about 600pts, then filling the rest of my list with elite chaos stuff. I have no idea how anyone could think that would be a bad list :/ lol Jeeezus! That is a pile of manz. I probably will just run two units of 20-30 ish with no upgrades. . . yes i imagine its going to end up like my orks. a pile of unpainted guys next to a suicide note. HAHAHA pure win sir. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I probably will try to run one unit of 20 to test them (will have to ask my friends if they are okay if I proxy 10 of the 20 since I will be playing with the Dark vengeance set of cultists where 10 comes with rifles and 10 with 2 cc) out a bit before I buy boxes of cultist. I have so much new stuff now that I have yet to try fielding. Like 3 Hellbrutes/dreadnoughts and 2 defilers. Need to either proxy my warmith into a warpmisth or buy the new model. Hmm... I see a lot I can do with the new codex with the models I already own. Gonna end up proxxxing a bunch of stuff as well, I think most people do that to get a feel for what they wanna buy first. I still need to upgrade all of my old daemons into the newer plastic ones, never go them upgraded because I figured I wouldn't be able to use them again :P Glad xmas is coming up, gonna make my wife buy me everything. . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Must be, excuse the language but its fitting in this case, bloody annoying for the first victims of the Typhus Zombie spam lists... I probably will try to run one unit of 20 to test them (will have to ask my friends if they are okay if I proxy 10 of the 20 since I will be playing with the Dark vengeance set of cultists where 10 comes with rifles and 10 with 2 cc) out a bit before I buy boxes of cultist. I have so much new stuff now that I have yet to try fielding. Like 3 Hellbrutes/dreadnoughts and 2 defilers. Need to either proxy my warmith into a warpmisth or buy the new model. Hmm... I see a lot I can do with the new codex with the models I already own. Gonna end up proxxxing a bunch of stuff as well, I think most people do that to get a feel for what they wanna buy first. I still need to upgrade all of my old daemons into the newer plastic ones, never go them upgraded because I figured I wouldn't be able to use them again :P Glad xmas is coming up, gonna make my wife buy me everything. . . Heh. Nice excuse for pimping the collection, christmas, for sure :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
x01848m Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 My first reaction when I saw the leaks was dissapointment as after having seen a lot of powerful codexes released I had fully expected to see it for the new csm book. I was also especially hoping to see some stuff to beat those damned grey knights over the head with (ex. I had thought/hoped the forge fiend would be a mc to rival the dread knight). After continuing to look at the leaks and think it over, however, I agree with the assessment that it is a decent, balanced codex, which is good for the game, if not for my hatred of the grey knights. The fast attack choices got significantly better, which is great (I am especially looking at you hell drake with bale fire cannon, which will be awesome for burning down purifiers). I will probably pass on the forge fiend, however, as they seem weaker than my current havoks and obliterators. Furthermore I will pass on the mutilators because they don't offer much that my terminators can't do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Smurf, with all the Word Bearers business you speak of, I literally can't imagine you running an army without a dark apostle if it's even reasonably useful. That's about as fluffy as it gets, bro. Also, either the GK players I face are nobs, or I'm awesome. I can almost table them in my neck of the woods. I mean.. they are annoyingly tough, but I've done far worse vs tau. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I guess the overall power level looks to be around what I expected (ever the pessimist here). It doesn't bother me too much as I'm kind of a terrible player so I generally lose even with the best stuff, so it doesn't make much difference to me. I'm mostly just happy to see a lot more options and list variety built into the book, which is all I was really asking for. I don't need a chaos book to squash necrons or grey knights, I just need one that won't have me bored to tears working on and playing with my army, and this book seems to deliver. It also seems to follow more or less my desired vision of chaos - a codex focused on the warped and twisted chaos marines of the 41st millennium, backed up by cultists and daemon engines, rather than a book that seems to want to deliver the 31st millennium's chaos marines, which is how I always felt about the 3.5 dex. Not that there aren't some disappointments - obligatorily marked princes without eternal warrior, possessed and thousand sons still really lousy, even after their years being terrible under the previous book, lack of cult terminators, some of the new models not looking as cool as I would have hoped, mutilators turning out kind of awful, both in rules and in models, basic chaos marines apparently rated 'too strong' and given a slight nerf, albeit one hidden behind a wealth of new options, when they already were among the less impressive of power armored troop squads in the game... Overall, I'm feeling pretty positive, but again, lowered expectations tends to produce that result. Frankly, we don't look as bad as Tyranids - even if there's some bad units, the internal balance still doesn't look as bad as theirs, and I haven't seen any out and out counterproductive "upgrades". Some of the new stuff looks better than some of the old stuff, but not by that much. After all, a plasma fiend costs the same points as a defiler and has one hull point left - and with a daemon save and IWND, that one extra hull point matters a lot. And the turkey is relatively tough for a flier, and doesn't cost too many points, but it's firepower output isn't exactly jaw dropping. It's a take it or leave it sort of option, nothing like as essential as the tervigon is in tyranid armies. Cult units we already took - plagues and zerkers - still look quite strong, though they'll be limited more to aligned armies. Terminators still seem pretty decent. Basic marines don't seem much to write home about, but neither are they bad exactly, and there's certainly a lot of ways you could build them, so while I expect cultists to become quite popular, I'd hardly say we're forced to completely replace our old stuff with new stuff to stay, well, if not competitive than at least functional. So no, I wouldn't say we're the new Tyranids. Not a bizarre, head turning train wreck. Just a mild disappointment next to more ambitious codex overhauls of recent years, a boring but functional step forward from the previous book that addresses the biggest problem - a lack of options - without taking many risks or looking at any other more specific problems or making the effort to adjust the overall competitiveness of the faction. Yeah, it's disappointing to those who were expecting grey knights power levels or dark eldar or necron level revamps, but it's certainly not any significant disaster or failure. It's not going to drive players away from our faction the way the 4e book did, or the way the 5e tyranid book did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
space wolf Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 "and just throw yourself at everything that is within range" This is also why I have been banned from a few of the local bars :*( Women don't like it, when strangers try to spear them with their lance weapon. Try talking to them first. :lol: This codex will be fine! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 It's not going to drive players away from our faction the way the 4e book did, or the way the 5e tyranid book did. I dunno, after a series of frighteningly lethal codex releases, ours just being 'ok' means that we are weak. The main reason for the 'nid comparison is that GW seems lost when transitioning between editions. For example, they made Slow and Purposeful awful, and then gave it to Tsons, a supremely shooty unit. It is like they don't even take into account what their new shiny revamped rules do. But we end up chained to it for the next 8 years anyway. The cultist blobs of doom do sound fun, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I agree with your assessment OP. I even let myself coddle some hope that as Phil Kelly wrote it, it would contain some interesting and well, RPG-ey customization elements that are still reasonably viable. Instead we get Gavdex the Remix keeping the bad units bad without updating some units that were good in 5th to be good again (Berzerkers). The only real winners are mono-Slaanesh armies which can now take FnP banners and are cheaper without actually being substantively worse like zerks are now (compared to the 4/5th ed furious charge and "hidden fist" rules around which the old ones were balanced). I guess we can wait and see, but yes as you said the meat and potatoes have already been seen and I've lost all of my excitement for the release. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallistus Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I recently returned to 40k, and picked CSM because thats what I had played before. I bought the codex, and I was disappointed. There was no real room for customization, it felt like there was no wargear, and it had the exact same units it had when I stopped playing like a decade ago. Then I looked through my friends codex and everything was cheaper with more options and new units. From the rumors about the new codex I'm pretty happy. There is a ton more customization available, the armory, and points seem to mostly of gone down. We will have to wait and see how this works out, but I don't see how it could be worse than the current one. I think its good that we don't have an over the top codex, but I play for fun and rarely play in any competitive manner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Smurf, with all the Word Bearers business you speak of, I literally can't imagine you running an army without a dark apostle if it's even reasonably useful. That's about as fluffy as it gets, bro.I will not use my Dark Apostle models as Dark Apostles; they will be Chaos Lords, as that far better represents the power they wield than the Dark Apostle does. Seriously, the DA has the wimpy statline of a Chaplain. That to no end annoys me, because it goes so far against the fluff... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stromal Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 So, ahriman can infiltrate 35man blobs of cultists on objectives, seems fun :tu: Anyone know if the zombie cultists can take marks in addition to being made zombies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Starscream Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 My only disappointments with the new books is the fact that we didn't get some kits. I wanted the basic Chaos Space Marine kit to be redone. I wanna see what the cultist kit looks like. ect. I think Chaos Space Marines have huge potential with the right playstyle. You can really build any kind of force you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 My only disappointments with the new books is the fact that we didn't get some kits. I wanted the basic Chaos Space Marine kit to be redone. I wanna see what the cultist kit looks like. ect. I think Chaos Space Marines have huge potential with the right playstyle. You can really build any kind of force you want. This x 1,000! The DV box build up expectations on the miniature front. But same standard Marines, same Havocs, same Termies and same cult troops - at least for the time being. All the current infantry minis are hopelesly outdated (the Termies are not but are a bit unimaginative Chaosised loyal ones). Now unless we see some new stuff on the infantry front in the second wave I'm just going to skip the 40k Chaos and just focus on 30k Traitors with all the fantastic stuff coming of FW. Sorry GW, a character here and a flying dragon there will not lure me to spend on an army of dated minis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261931-congratulations-heretics-and-traitors/page/3/#findComment-3189448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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