AL13N Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I have a question with the new rules set or just in general if my Dreadnought suffers a weapon destroyed. Under the new rules it is random. It currently has 3 weapons CCW, Stormbolter, Multimelta. Now I have been told that If the random roll is CCW or stormbolter I also lose the other?! Is this true? Why would we be rolling a d6 in 3rds and finding weapon? Why not just split it into arms and say half right arm half left arm? Please help me understand. Thanks ahead of time. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Just roll left arm/right arm. The weapon underslung on the left arm is integrated to the fist, so removing one destroys the other. D2 it, not D3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Nope, I'm going to disagree here - The rules say to randomly determine which weapon suffers the Weapon Destroyed result. Take an example Dreadnought armed with an Assault Cannon and a DCCW w/Stormbolter. The example Dreadnought has three weapons which can suffer the Weapon Destroyed result. The odds of losing the Assault Cannon are 1/3, while the odds of losing the DCCW and the Stormbolter are 1/3 each totaling 2/3. By rolling for each arm you are altering the chances of losing the Assault Cannon to 1/2, a 50% increase in the likelyhood of losing that weapon. You should follow the RAW unless you discuss it and house rule it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 So...getting the arm wrecked no longer wrecks the storm bolter?? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 i am going to have to consult so resources before i chip in here. def of a DCCW has always been the fist and the weapon held under slung/in it. i would like to cite references to both 5th and 6th for comparison but dont know where my 5th book is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 So...getting the arm wrecked no longer wrecks the storm bolter?? :tu: It didnt in 5th either. There was no definition for what 'built in' meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 With 6th ed rulebook saying nothing about the DCCW removing the under slung weapon you roll a d3 for it (if theres the shooting arm and DCCW with wep) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Actually it was very clear in 5th. 5th ed. BRB FAQ Q: When a Damaged -Weapon Destroyed result is rolled and a weapon is destroyed are any built-in, combi or co-akial weapons attached to it also destroyed ?(p61)A: Yes. The rules for DCCW (5th ed. BRB pg.73 ) also state that built in weapons are removed if the DCCW is removed. The wording in the current rules has dropped that wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Actually it was very clear in 5th.5th ed. BRB FAQ Q: When a Damaged -Weapon Destroyed result is rolled and a weapon is destroyed are any built-in, combi or co-akial weapons attached to it also destroyed ?(p61)A: Yes. The rules for DCCW (5th ed. BRB pg.73 ) also state that built in weapons are removed if the DCCW is removed. The wording in the current rules has dropped that wording. It has not. The Vehicle Damage Table in the 6th Ed rulebook, Pg.74 entry for Weapon Destroyedstates that "One of the vehicle's weapons (randomly chosen) is destroyed - including any combi- or built in weapons.". The Codex: Space Marines entry for a Dreadnought states that a Dreadnought is armed with "Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon (with built in Stormbolter)", Pg.137. So in 6th Ed a DCCW with built in weapon will still lose both on a Weapon Destroyed result applied to either, it's just that you must now randomly determine which weapon is destroyed. As each wepaon has an equal chance of being randomly chosen, rolling for an arm alters the odds of losing each weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 surely 3 weapons means d3 roll Example 1-2 assault cannon 3-4 storm bolter 5-6 DCCW (& storm bolter) This is because you are rolling for a random weapon, and the storm bolter on its own is a weapon, whilst the DCCW includes the storm bolter, the storm bolter could be damaged separatly. could be wrong though, and it goes a bit fishy when you start getting dreads with 2 DCCW's, with 2 Built in ranged weapons, though you could just get a d4,d8,d12 out :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 double post apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 See, I knew the rule was still in there! Still, it is different than before and you'd D3 it, but two of the results would destroy the stormbolter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 then rolling d3 you are drastically altering the chances that the NON close combat arm is going to get destroyed.... if you give two chances that one are in gone and one to the other......... d2 gives equal odds to each arm since you still lose all attached weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerbjørn Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 To me, it looks like it would need to be discussed prior to the game. I can see three possible reading of this: 1) Roll a D3. -1 - The Assault Cannon gets destroyed. -2 - The DCCW gets destroyed, as does the built-in storm bolter. -3 - The Storm bolter get destroyed, but as it is built into the DCCW and not the other way around, the DCCW is fine. 2) Roll a D2. -1 - The Assault Cannon is destroyed -2 - The DCCW & Storm Bolter is destroyed 3) Roll a D3. -1 - The Assault Cannon gets destroyed. -2 - The DCCW gets destroyed, as does the built-in storm bolter. -3 - The Storm bolter get destroyed, as is the DCCW since they are combined. To me all three seems possible within RAW, although I suspect that it is 2) that is RAI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 To me all three seems possible within RAW, although I suspect that it is 2) that is RAI... If we are going to bring in RAI ... I think it is indented to only count things like twin-linked weapons or anything that fires multiple weapons with a single pull of the trigger like hurricane bolters. Unfortunantly, what is intended is not always clear so until it is FAQed, we go with what is written. ... not that this is any clearer in this case ... but there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL13N Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 I know this is under some heated debate but this is actually how I read it and or how I think it should work thus my play group actually agreed with me the noob!?!? D3 1-2 Multimelta destroyed 3-4 Storm Bolter Destroyed 5-6 CCW destroyed along with Storm bolter since CCW controls where Storm bolter shoots. Does any of this make sense to you guys? Mark Thanks for your reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I know this is under some heated debate but this is actually how I read it and or how I think it should work thus my play group actually agreed with me the noob!?!? D3 1-2 Multimelta destroyed 3-4 Storm Bolter Destroyed 5-6 CCW destroyed along with Storm bolter since CCW controls where Storm bolter shoots. Does any of this make sense to you guys? Mark Thanks for your reply! I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I know this is under some heated debate but this is actually how I read it and or how I think it should work thus my play group actually agreed with me the noob!?!? D3 1-2 Multimelta destroyed 3-4 Storm Bolter Destroyed 5-6 CCW destroyed along with Storm bolter since CCW controls where Storm bolter shoots. Does any of this make sense to you guys? Mark Thanks for your reply! Makes sense, and how I'd play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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