How to equip Chaos Terminators?

[Smurfalypse]

I don't know how fast you paint but for me, 10 CHAOS terminator bodies in 1 week is a good size job. Sure, I can kick out 10 Deathwing terminators in a weekend but there is so much detail on the chaos TDA it gets to where you can spend forever just going back and picking something else out to make just a little bit better.

 

I was talking about building them for the release not painting them ;). We usually play unpainted models at local store and I?m sure it's not uncommon around the world.

I don't like to rush painting because I prefer to have nice looking models ;)

 

 

 

Back on topic:

It's clear magnetizing the weapons is a very good idea and I'll do it.

However this brings us to the original question: what is it the best loadout for Chaos TDA?

After I magnitized them I have still to choose the weapons when I write the army list

 

Currently I think the mix of power weapons with a couple of claws and chainfists should be the best approach.

Right now I'm thinking about:

 

2 Chainfists

2 Lightning Claws

2 Power Axes

4 Power Maces

 

The maces are very useful against most xenos armies and better then power swords against TDA (they get their save anyway but the mace wounds them on 2+)

I can reduce the number of maces and add more axes but I thought striking at their initiative may be useful; it's something loyalist TDA can't do. ;)

What do you think?

 

I don't think lightning claws are truly needed because your threat is not going to be coming from power armored units, it will more than likely come from other terminator type units or MCs.

Four with Maces is x8 attacks standing still and x12 on the charge, good for busting up light armor tanks, helpful vs walkers, and MCs with a decent toughness. Either way, fit in two power fists or chain fists and mix the rest with axes + mauls (4 axes and 4 mauls probably). That has always been my preference. For shooty in a 10 man I usually run two reapers, I have been skipping the combi-weapons as I don't deepstrike 10 man units so would rather have the rerolling bolters. Again, this is all my personal preference and others may have better load outs for what you are looking to accomplish.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I don't know how fast you paint but for me, 10 CHAOS terminator bodies in 1 week is a good size job. Sure, I can kick out 10 Deathwing terminators in a weekend but there is so much detail on the chaos TDA it gets to where you can spend forever just going back and picking something else out to make just a little bit better.

 

I was talking about building them for the release not painting them ;). We usually play unpainted models at local store and I?m sure it's not uncommon around the world.

I don't like to rush painting because I prefer to have nice looking models ;)

 

 

 

Back on topic:

It's clear magnetizing the weapons is a very good idea and I'll do it.

However this brings us to the original question: what is it the best loadout for Chaos TDA?

After I magnitized them I have still to choose the weapons when I write the army list

 

Currently I think the mix of power weapons with a couple of claws and chainfists should be the best approach.

Right now I'm thinking about:

 

2 Chainfists

2 Lightning Claws

2 Power Axes

4 Power Maces

 

The maces are very useful against most xenos armies and better then power swords against TDA (they get their save anyway but the mace wounds them on 2+)

I can reduce the number of maces and add more axes but I thought striking at their initiative may be useful; it's something loyalist TDA can't do. ;)

What do you think?

 

I don't think lightning claws are truly needed because your threat is not going to be coming from power armored units, it will more than likely come from other terminator type units or MCs.

Four with Maces is x8 attacks standing still and x12 on the charge, good for busting up light armor tanks, helpful vs walkers, and MCs with a decent toughness. Either way, fit in two power fists or chain fists and mix the rest with axes + mauls (4 axes and 4 mauls probably). That has always been my preference. For shooty in a 10 man I usually run two reapers, I have been skipping the combi-weapons as I don't deepstrike 10 man units so would rather have the rerolling bolters. Again, this is all my personal preference and others may have better load outs for what you are looking to accomplish.

 

The advantage of Claws are the reroll to wound but I agree with you when you say the threat will come from TDA, MCs and Walkers.

Maces can threat walkers and wound many MCs (DK included) on 4+.

I'd happily add more chainfists but I don't want to make the unit too much expensive. From the blurry WD images it seem the chainfists cost something like 25 pts (I remember I saw a 5, hopefully it is 15 pts).

 

EDIT:

I forgot to mention there are Power Armored units that can be dangerous in CC( Death Company, for example). However they usually don't negate 2+ saves, a part from few unwielding weapons they can carry.

[d@n]

what ever ccw you go for i would suggest sticking with the combi bolter. its free and there pretty lethal, (being twin linked with the new overwatch rule).

[Iron Father Ferrum]

A friend and I were talking this over yesterday afternoon, and for my five man squad previously mentioned, I think I'm going to go with a chain fist, power fist, one axe and two mauls. I had considered claws and swords, but I couldn't really justify the cost of a claw and the statline of the sword on models with TDA. I'm still considering reversing the numbers and going two axes and one maul; I should get enough high-strength hits off of the fists that the mauls aren't really necessary.

 

As for other equipment, as of now I'm going with the Mark of Tzeentch for the 4++ and strongly considering the Fearless Icon to ensure that they won't break and run. Anybody have any other bright ideas on Marks & Icons for them?

[Cmdr Shepard]

what ever ccw you go for i would suggest sticking with the combi bolter. its free and there pretty lethal, (being twin linked with the new overwatch rule).

 

Right! I forgot the combi-weapon exchane the twin-linked bolter with a standard bolter. I think they twin-linked bolter can be very useful...

 

A friend and I were talking this over yesterday afternoon, and for my five man squad previously mentioned, I think I'm going to go with a chain fist, power fist, one axe and two mauls. I had considered claws and swords, but I couldn't really justify the cost of a claw and the statline of the sword on models with TDA. I'm still considering reversing the numbers and going two axes and one maul; I should get enough high-strength hits off of the fists that the mauls aren't really necessary.

 

As for other equipment, as of now I'm going with the Mark of Tzeentch for the 4++ and strongly considering the Fearless Icon to ensure that they won't break and run. Anybody have any other bright ideas on Marks & Icons for them?

 

Power Axes and their AP2 are a solid choice for anti-TDA duties. However you will strike at the same I of your opponents. If maces are deployed in a good number that have the ability to "bypass" 2+ saves with the sheer number of attacks who wounds on 2+. If the cost difference between power fists and chain fists is not astronomical I'd suggest chain fists since they are ramarkably better in dealing with armour while retaining the same effectiveness of power fists against infantry/MCs.

 

About Marks and Icons:

Iw as think about the same thing just several minutes ago. MoT is extremely useful if you plan to use a lot of unwielding CCW. The 4++ save will mitigate the fact you strike at the same I of enemy TDAs.

The Icon of Tzeentch is the one tha grants soul blaze, right? if it's cheap it does not hurt :)

 

However I'm seriously thinking about Mark of Slaanesh. +1 I will be priceless during the mandatory challanges and the FnP the Icon grants is very alluring.

If you plan to put an IC in your TDA unit the Fearless Icon is redundant since the IC will give you the same effect.

Terminators die from massive low S fire as often as the die from high S weapons' attack. FnP can guarantee you don't lose one of your Termi due to massive bolter fire, or orks shoota shots.

 

However even the 4++ save is very tempting....

[Iron Father Ferrum]

My local meta is extremely MEQ-heavy, so there's lots of plasma and melta bandied about; thus my desire for improved Invulnerable saves. Plus, if I ever get into a slap-fight with other Terminators, the I save is what'll keep me alive there too. Plus, I'm not planning on a TDA Lord at the moment; I wanted to take a winged one and have him operate with a Raptor squad instead. As it stands, I think I'll go with the two axes and a maul and look for the mass AP2 to do work.

[Cmdr Shepard]

My local meta is extremely MEQ-heavy, so there's lots of plasma and melta bandied about; thus my desire for improved Invulnerable saves. Plus, if I ever get into a slap-fight with other Terminators, the I save is what'll keep me alive there too. Plus, I'm not planning on a TDA Lord at the moment; I wanted to take a winged one and have him operate with a Raptor squad instead. As it stands, I think I'll go with the two axes and a maul and look for the mass AP2 to do work.

 

If the Terminator champion is a character he must issue challanges so striking on base I may save the day. 4++ invul is extremely useful (I'll problably give them the MoT the first time I'll play my TDA unit) but FnP is awayls a life saver... difficult decision

Just a note: If you fight against Tactical SM termies you will have a better invul save, thus a better chance to kill them and survive but if you face assault Terminators they will have the better invul save, and a 3++. If attack them at the same INI level they will inflict more unsaved wounds then you. You shoot them before charging, of course, but I was only mentioning the effect of such assault.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

My local meta is extremely MEQ-heavy, so there's lots of plasma and melta bandied about; thus my desire for improved Invulnerable saves. Plus, if I ever get into a slap-fight with other Terminators, the I save is what'll keep me alive there too. Plus, I'm not planning on a TDA Lord at the moment; I wanted to take a winged one and have him operate with a Raptor squad instead. As it stands, I think I'll go with the two axes and a maul and look for the mass AP2 to do work.

 

If the Terminator champion is a character he must issue challanges so striking on base I may save the day. 4++ invul is extremely useful (I'll problably give them the MoT the first time I'll play my TDA unit) but FnP is awayls a life saver... difficult decision

Just a note: If you fight against Tactical SM termies you will have a better invul save, thus a better chance to kill them and survive but if you face assault Terminators they will have the better invul save, and a 3++. If attack them at the same INI level they will inflict more unsaved wounds then you. You shoot them before charging, of course, but I was only mentioning the effect of such assault.

 

That's true. . . but being in TDA, the only weapons that can cut his 2+ are also Unwieldy (barring MCs of course), so what at-I weapon would you offer up? A sword? I'd rather have AP2, and the ability to nerf FnP and ID Marine ICs. A maul? S6 is nice, but the AP4 for a must-challenge character who fights Marines a lot. . . the two don't add up.

 

Honestly, since we MUST challenge, and the new power weapon rules made it so that nobody leaves home without TDA or artifcer armor anymore, we need to have AP2 CCWs on our most-likely-to-going-to-end-up-in-melee heavy hitters. Terminator and Chosen Champions probably need AP2 weapons to get solid challenge kills.

[Cmdr Shepard]

My local meta is extremely MEQ-heavy, so there's lots of plasma and melta bandied about; thus my desire for improved Invulnerable saves. Plus, if I ever get into a slap-fight with other Terminators, the I save is what'll keep me alive there too. Plus, I'm not planning on a TDA Lord at the moment; I wanted to take a winged one and have him operate with a Raptor squad instead. As it stands, I think I'll go with the two axes and a maul and look for the mass AP2 to do work.

 

If the Terminator champion is a character he must issue challanges so striking on base I may save the day. 4++ invul is extremely useful (I'll problably give them the MoT the first time I'll play my TDA unit) but FnP is awayls a life saver... difficult decision

Just a note: If you fight against Tactical SM termies you will have a better invul save, thus a better chance to kill them and survive but if you face assault Terminators they will have the better invul save, and a 3++. If attack them at the same INI level they will inflict more unsaved wounds then you. You shoot them before charging, of course, but I was only mentioning the effect of such assault.

 

That's true. . . but being in TDA, the only weapons that can cut his 2+ are also Unwieldy (barring MCs of course), so what at-I weapon would you offer up? A sword? I'd rather have AP2, and the ability to nerf FnP and ID Marine ICs. A maul? S6 is nice, but the AP4 for a must-challenge character who fights Marines a lot. . . the two don't add up.

 

Honestly, since we MUST challenge, and the new power weapon rules made it so that nobody leaves home without TDA or artifcer armor anymore, we need to have AP2 CCWs on our most-likely-to-going-to-end-up-in-melee heavy hitters. Terminator and Chosen Champions probably need AP2 weapons to get solid challenge kills.

 

I was not suggesting a sword. If I had to choose a non AP2 weapon for TDA I'd suggest a Mace since it wounds on 2+. Anyway I'm saying to give your champion a mace.

I was only saying we must consider that when we fight loyalist TDA on the same INI level they have a better chance to kill ours.

Equiping a Terminator champion for a challange with another Terminator is a complex matter.

You strike at base I and your opponent get his 2+ save (Unless your name is Adaddon :D )

You bring AP2 attacks and you attack on the same INI level of your opponent.

 

In both cases your sucess is not guaranteed. An aspiring champion in PA dueling with a PA sergeant has a good chance to emerge victorious and with MoS you have a very high chance to kill him before he can hurt you.

TDA vs TDA duel is a more difficult one. I was just "brainstorming" on that :D

[Iron Father Ferrum]

And I'm totally cool with the dicussion, I wasn't trying to be particularly virulent or vociferous on the subject.

 

If I did go with something other than a power/chainfist, it'd be a maul -- you're right, the 2+ to wound on MEQ is definitely a good stat to have. But again, most MEQ ICs will be sporting 2+ saves. Figuring three attacks, he's liable to get two hits and, without the gremlins, two wounds. Even if he fails both, that won't kill Captains or Chapter Masters -- and besides, they're already I5, so they're going first anyway. I understand your point, but given the stats and roles of the Terminators, I honestly think a fist is the better option.

[Vesper]

My local meta is extremely MEQ-heavy, so there's lots of plasma and melta bandied about; thus my desire for improved Invulnerable saves. Plus, if I ever get into a slap-fight with other Terminators, the I save is what'll keep me alive there too. Plus, I'm not planning on a TDA Lord at the moment; I wanted to take a winged one and have him operate with a Raptor squad instead. As it stands, I think I'll go with the two axes and a maul and look for the mass AP2 to do work.

 

If the Terminator champion is a character he must issue challanges so striking on base I may save the day. 4++ invul is extremely useful (I'll problably give them the MoT the first time I'll play my TDA unit) but FnP is awayls a life saver... difficult decision

 

Indeed.

Here's what made me pick Tzeentch over Slaanesh for TDA :

Your power fists and chainfist will not beneficiate of the initiative boost.

[Cmdr Shepard]

And I'm totally cool with the dicussion, I wasn't trying to be particularly virulent or vociferous on the subject.

 

If I did go with something other than a power/chainfist, it'd be a maul -- you're right, the 2+ to wound on MEQ is definitely a good stat to have. But again, most MEQ ICs will be sporting 2+ saves. Figuring three attacks, he's liable to get two hits and, without the gremlins, two wounds. Even if he fails both, that won't kill Captains or Chapter Masters -- and besides, they're already I5, so they're going first anyway. I understand your point, but given the stats and roles of the Terminators, I honestly think a fist is the better option.

 

I never thought you were particulary virulent or vociferous on the subject.

I do believe an AP2 weapon on the Champion is the best choice but I comes with a significant price.

A Terminator Champion vs a SM Captain duel is not fair: the Captain is cleary superior and your Champion will struggle against him (we are comparing a HQ with a sergeant, after all :lol: )

If you plan to hunt for enemy warlords I would suggest a properly equiped Chaos Lord or even Abaddon. Personally I think Abaddon will be able to win dules against most SM HQ. Even Draigo has been nerfed to a less lethat status (namely AP3 weapon). Dante's mask will annoy him but I don't think it will be a game changing event.

 

If you want your Champion to deal with Captains and Chapter Masters then fists/chainfists (for the additional bonus against vehicles) is the best choice since your can instant kill them with a single unsaved wound.

The good news is there is no a particular Terminator Champion model so you don't have to worry about modelling choices. As long as you have the weapons you can use any of your models for the champion role when you write the list. :huh:

 

 

My local meta is extremely MEQ-heavy, so there's lots of plasma and melta bandied about; thus my desire for improved Invulnerable saves. Plus, if I ever get into a slap-fight with other Terminators, the I save is what'll keep me alive there too. Plus, I'm not planning on a TDA Lord at the moment; I wanted to take a winged one and have him operate with a Raptor squad instead. As it stands, I think I'll go with the two axes and a maul and look for the mass AP2 to do work.

 

If the Terminator champion is a character he must issue challanges so striking on base I may save the day. 4++ invul is extremely useful (I'll problably give them the MoT the first time I'll play my TDA unit) but FnP is awayls a life saver... difficult decision

 

Indeed.

Here's what made me pick Tzeentch over Slaanesh for TDA :

Your power fists and chainfist will not beneficiate of the initiative boost.

 

Regarding challanges and CC there is no doubt: Tzeentch all the way.

My doubt came from the fact many TDA die from massed fire (bolter, gauss, lasguns etc) and the Icon of Slaanesh (if Chaos Terminators can take icons) will grant them FnP to counter the massed low STR fire.

 

Right now I'm favoring MoT too because a 4++ invul save on a TDA whith ranged and melee capability is always good ^_^

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Well I'm not planning on using Terminators to go hunting enemy ICs -- but with the challenge requirements for our army and the backfield-teleporting role I plan for them, such a match-up is, in my mind, inevitable.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Well I'm not planning on using Terminators to go hunting enemy ICs -- but with the challenge requirements for our army and the backfield-teleporting role I plan for them, such a match-up is, in my mind, inevitable.

 

Beside the enemy will likely send their strongest CC units against them, hence ICs, since everyone fear TDA in 6th edition?

 

If you know your TDA will meet melee oriented ICs I'd suggest to consider the inclusion of a CC IC of your own in the unit. I don't know if this will compromise the role your are planning for your Terminators. I'm just brainstorming. :tu:

 

Anyway I wonder how many players will accept the challanges issued by CSM characters. I suspect several players would prevent their enemy CSM to roll on the boon table. Better to not attack then losing a model and grant the opponent an upgrade of some sort.

IC will likely accept since not attacking for a turn of combat is wasting the cost of the IC.

Even if he kill our champion we forced him to kill only one while the rest of our unit attack the other enemies.

 

Back on the weapons:

 

I'm wondering if giving the champion an Axe or a chainfist. If I decide to go for a not AP2 weapon the claws are not that bad but only if you send your champion against PA.

 

A TDA champion will bring 4 attacks on charge (I suppose he will have an additional attack for a total of 3 base attacks. Correct me if I'm wrong)

 

A few calculations for those who care about them ;)

(I included veterans of the long war rerolls)

 

Versus TDA:

Axe: 1.33 unsaved wounds against SM tactical TDA; 0.667 against Assault TDA

 

Fist/chainfist: 1.667 unsaved wounds inflicting ID, 0.883 vesrus storm shields

 

Lightning Claws: 0.375 unsaved wounds

 

Mace: 0.417 unsaved wounds.

[Excessus]

GAH!

 

Terminators have been a little bit nerfed...

 

They now may choose if they want to upgrade their power weapon or their combi-bolter. Also, only one in five may take heavy weapons...

 

With veterans and marks they are looking to being able to become quite an expensive unit...

[the jeske]

if only the icon of tzeench wasnt so sucktastic .

[Excessus]

if only the icon of tzeench wasnt so sucktastic .

For once, I agree with you jeske. But I wouldn't be so mild in my language when describing it though...

[Smurfalypse]

If their points costs are the same as before, than the degrade to their options in mixing CC and combi weapons is justified IMO. As much as it pains me to say it, being 10 points less than a marine equal is sorta nutty.

[the jeske]

if only the icon of tzeench wasnt so sucktastic .

For once, I agree with you jeske. But I wouldn't be so mild in my language when describing it though...

 

well GW stays true to its most important w40k rule. 1ksons always suck . its like a tradition thing . I mean would it have hurt , if they let soul fire stack ? they put in a rule for blood , that gives a str 3 ap4 hit for each wound caused and that thing being khorn of coures does stack .

 

 

well they arent realy cheaper . they dont have cyclons , and when you buy 5 dudes give them plasma and veteran and an icon they suddenly are so cheap anymore and unlike all other marines we cant just battle brother in ultra cheap loyalist sm terminators with th/ss.

[Cmdr Shepard]

GAH!

 

Terminators have been a little bit nerfed...

 

They now may choose if they want to upgrade their power weapon or their combi-bolter. Also, only one in five may take heavy weapons...

 

With veterans and marks they are looking to being able to become quite an expensive unit...

 

They are still as survivable as loyalist TDA and the fact they will probably cost less then SM Termies per model means you will lose less points when your unit comes under massive low STR fire and you roll a 1 ;)

[Iron Sage]

if only the icon of tzeench wasnt so sucktastic .

 

Yeah, its rather crap indeed. Makes you wonder, since the same effect is a cool/good upgrade on the vehicles since its only 5 points. But 15 points?? Nah...:/

[Vesper]

Chaos Terminators might be the least killy terminators ever. Pretty disappointed, not gonna lie.

 

They now may choose if they want to upgrade their power weapon or their combi-bolter.

That's pretty retarded.

My terminators aren't legal anymore. Kinda pissed.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Chaos Terminators might be the least killy terminators ever. Pretty disappointed, not gonna lie.

 

They now may choose if they want to upgrade their power weapon or their combi-bolter.

That's pretty retarded.

My terminators aren't legal anymore. Kinda pissed.

 

There's a little more to it than that, though. They can't upgrade their combi-bolter to a combi-weapon if they take a claw or power/chainfist from the option menu. However, claw/power/chainfist models can still upgrade the bolter to a heavy flamer or reaper autocannon. Plus, the Champion can select weaponry from the Terminator wargear list without abiding by the aforementioned restrictions. So for example, the loadout I was looking at using is still perfectly legal to take, I just need to reshuffle which models are carrying what:

 

Champ: chainfist & combi-melta (from Wargear)

#1: combi-plas & power maul

#2: combi-plas & power axe

#3: combi-melta & power axe

#4: reaper & power fist

 

Now if your models are heavy on fists and claws mixed with their combi-weapons, then yeah, I feel for you.

[Vesper]

I'll sort something out.

Don't like the fact that the only thing that the Aspiring Champion got is "He can pay 10 points for a mutation".

Also don't like that we couldn't make more Terminators (or even chosen) Aspirant Champions.

[Istvaan Shogaatsu]

Well.

 

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj235/h...Terminators.jpg

 

This is what my Chaos Termies look like. A few of them are now illegal. Up yours GW, with your pointless arbitrary changes that require re-modeling. I guess I've got some weapon swaps to do.