Night lords or Word bearers?

[NDC-OSPREY]

Hail fellow followers of Chaos!

 

The title of the thread really says it all. I can't decide which Legion I want to collect, I have painted a mini up of one of each and still cant decide really, suppose the night lord was easier to paint but that's not really much of an excuse.

 

I love the background of the both Legions, as well as the Thousand Sons but they don't have plastic mini's :P

 

Here are the two test models so any feed back on which you think is better would be appreciated. Sorry for the terrible pics as I only have a Blackberry camera to hand

 

http://i45.tinypic.com/1z35kl5.jpg

 

http://i50.tinypic.com/21m7ok6.jpg

 

http://i49.tinypic.com/2lm2m37.jpg

[Kol Saresk]

Personally, I'm a Night Lords fan. So I say Night Lords :P

[Bungicats]

I am a word bearers fan. That being said I enjoy the fluff of both armies. GW is releasing http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...Id=prod1710126a sometime in the future. It will make it easier than trying to collect the old metal minis ala ebay and gettting bent over a barrel with the price. Not saying GW price is any better, but at least you will get what you ordered. just my $.75 (inflation) :P

[Iron Sage]

I think you should field a joint Word Bearer and Nightlord force. Its very, very easy to justify that fluff-wise, and then you would also be able to play around with your two favorite Legions :P

[Amalricus]

Why not run both? A NL warband joining WB's or the other way round.

 

Both Legions have very specific means to wage war, so you could could pick a core of WB's ( cultists, regular CSM, with a dark apostle, some daemon engines, some chosen / termies / possessed / dreads / vehicles and so on) with a spearhead of NL covering the FA choices ( Raptors / Warp Talons / bikers / maybye chosen, termies, ...) for example.

 

Both legions are great, i myself play WB, but i think some of the raptors / bikers i might add to the bunch might end up in night lord livery.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Word Bearers, of course :P

[Cretheus]

I'm not a Heretic myself but if i were to choose, it would be word bearers if not only for the the word bearers omnibus, would have to do the cult of anointed. Though on the other hand konrad curze has to be one of the best primarchs ......... ever!

[Aqui]

Just to add a different view point - DIY ;)

 

Like certain aspects of the Night Lords and Word Bearers, but can't decide which one to choose? Well, take those elements and make a Warband of your own.

 

That aside, I'm not sure which I'd pick if I had to, to be honest. Until recently, I was never that much of a fan of either of them (being a Black Legion fan/player from 20 years ago :P ), but they're both growing on me B)

[NDC-OSPREY]

I hadn't thought about running both really, I think the force would look weird that way. Not very uniform see. Which isn't really a very Chaosy attitude from me! :huh:

 

I am leaning more towards the Word Bearers at the moment, mostly because that way I can have a daemons allies contingent, which makes sense fluff wise. Night lords aren't into those funny deamon things really are they.

[Kol Saresk]

Daemon engines? Can't imagine why not. Granted, most Night Lord Warbands wouldn't be able to possess daemon engines, but I imagine some of the larger ones like that of Krieg Acerbus could definitely fit in more than a few daemon engines. The fear factor of those things is virtually incalculable. Then there's regular daemons. They make great use of those. In fact, I believe one of the Legion's "Big History Moments" was when they attacked a world, destroyed its defenses and then let the daemons run rampant until there was no one left. Then they just left it there for the Imperials to find.

 

EDIT: Krieg Acerbus is also a Night Lords Daemon Prince as well.

[Killax]

You cannot play Word Bearers without Daemons imho.

 

So the question is:

- Do you want to play a mobile orientated army or

- Do you want some cool Daemon Allies alongside your Chaos Armour

 

Cheers,

[Lord Ragnarok]

You cannot play Word Bearers without Daemons imho.

 

So the question is:

- Do you want to play a mobile orientated army or

- Do you want some cool Daemon Allies alongside your Chaos Armour

 

Cheers,

 

Why are daemons mandatory? I would not say they are mandatory. I would say don't feel shy including tons of daemons so go all out if you want. Fluff wise they are very different factions. If you like both domain allied force otherwise it will come down to paint scheme.

[Killax]

You cannot play Word Bearers without Daemons imho.

 

So the question is:

- Do you want to play a mobile orientated army or

- Do you want some cool Daemon Allies alongside your Chaos Armour

 

Cheers,

 

Why are daemons mandatory? I would say they are mandatory.

 

Yeah I would say that to.

 

I personally love the idea of Word Beares being one of the few Legions who can field all 4 colours of Daemons.

This is what sets the WB apart and if you really want to choose 1 of the 2 just keep a bit of fluff in mind.

 

Cheers,

[Lord Ragnarok]

Fixed.

[Chaeron]

Depends also on play style... Fast and furious vs. Litanies of Hate...

 

Both are very viable tabletop armies - I think it purely depends on the direction you want to take, and what you want to have in your force.

[Killax]

Fixed.

Oh well, you wanted to know why they are mandatory?

 

Word Bearers do not worship Chaos Gods individually. Instead, they are venerated and regarded as a Dark Pantheon of Chaos Gods. The sons of Lorgar view those who limit their worship to a single Chaos God with contempt and are partially at odds with the Emperor's Children for their decadence. Word Bearers rely on Daemons as shock troops, meatshields, and as the bulk of their armies. Their elite Chaos Space Marines are used to accomplish vital tasks. The Word Bearers have been known to have a massive cultist base, and have used cultists and insurgents since the Great Crusade. However, unlike the Alpha Legion, the primary use of cultists is as cannon fodder and distractions.

 

Cheers,

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I play a Word Bearer force without daemons :D

[Killax]

I play a Word Bearer force without daemons :D

 

Ah well, it's for the player to decide if they want to mix in the fluff with their army.

Again if you have doubts between both armies (who are not different since they both will come from codex CSM) just look at the fluff and let that inspire you.

[Kol Saresk]

I think what it comes down to is whether or not the OP wants to go for terror-tactic-using force(translates into Fast Attack for the tabletop) or an army that goes anywhere from Cultist to CSM infantry to Armor. Both forces use Daemons and there are instances where both have and have not used daemons.

 

EDIT: Relying on something does make it mandatory.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I play a Word Bearer force without daemons :lol:

 

Ah well, it's for the player to decide if they want to mix in the fluff with their army.

Again if you have doubts between both armies (who are not different since they both will come from codex CSM) just look at the fluff and let that inspire you.

 

You are taking a single minded fluff approach to suggest how someone should build their army. An army list is a snapshot in time and there are many reasons daemons may not be available to a word bearers force. And they can be just as fluffy without daemons as a force with daemons.

[meeper]

Who says you cant do a warband theme ala 4th edition space wolves? Take an HQ alligned with a certain legion and paint up a few squads/fluffy units with the same color scheme and take another HQ from a different legion and take fluffy units from that legion. I plan on doing a night lord/iron warrior legion alliance.

 

Also, your night lords are BEGGING for lighting bolts. I dont regard myself as a good painter at all, but the bolts really made my NL squads stand out.

[Killax]

You are taking a single minded fluff approach to suggest how someone should build their army. An army list is a snapshot in time and there are many reasons daemons may not be available to a word bearers force. And they can be just as fluffy without daemons as a force with daemons.

 

Hence I said in my honest opinion (imho) I think you should field a WB army with Daemon allies.

You cannot play Word Bearers without Daemons imho.

 

Fact is, it is their speciality:

 

Word Bearers Specialty: Daemonancy, Dark Apostles

So not fielding them would actually contradict more with the fluff than fielding them. It's the same like ignoring Dark Angels their Plasmaweaponry speciality.

 

Now we can go on and on about this topic but the WB have had the special rule in their army in the Codex CSM of 2002.

Being the only one who mixed all Daemons in on a regular basis and could do so.

They even used to have some cool legion only upgrades like the Accursed Crozius and Demagogue Ability.

 

A cool picture of that:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/Killax/IMAGE_110.jpg

 

I suggest reading more and knowing the older fluff to does not hurt.

 

Now some info on the Night Lords:

 

Much less focussed on the Daemonic aspect of chaos and make full use of their Bikers, Raptors / Fast attack.

You could make a perfect Night Lord army without the above but this again would contradict more with the fluff than not doing it.

 

Then again fluff is for the player who actually gives an ass.

 

Cheers,

[Kol Saresk]

Wow. Really. Okay, try telling A-D-B and Anthoney Reynolds that. Alos, tell Forgeworld. They made Periclitor a Word Bearer. And yet he never once used daemons. Yet he is "canon", goes beyond just mere fluff. And yet his existence refutes your claim because the only daemon inside his entire army is himself. To be honest, you're reminding me of a conversation I had with Forgeworld a while back because according to them, if there is no vox interference and use of scare tactics, then a single attack could not have been made by a band of Night Lords just because of that one anomaly, that one time when they didn't do it all because that is their specialty. The Iron Warriors' specialty is artillery and siege tactics. But that isn't always what they do. A specialty is something you are good at doing, not something you always do. You are using words to cement your beliefs in stone and trying to take fluff that is completely malleable and make solid as rock when it is actuallly as fluid as water. It is constantly changing. The Word Bearers rely on daemons as shock troops. But they won't always be able to summon daemons. And they won't always be fighting a battle that requires shock troops. So no, they will not always use daemons. To say otherwise is going against the fluff is pure folly because as long as it isn't Mary Sue, everything is the fluff. Nothing goes against it because it is fluff, not canon. There is no rigidity, no formal structure. It can and will change and what happens in part, does not have to happen in the other. It's just one big blob of timey-wimey-wibbly-wobbly mess that anyone can pull whatever they want out of it. An Iron Warriors Gran Company that specializes in CC. Night Lords who use artillery and rely on daemons as shock troops. Word Bearers who prefer a spec ops approach and make heavy use of mortal Infiltrators as scouts and saboteurs while they stay behind the scenes unless it benefits them and so on and so on. And it works. And you know why? Because it's fluff! Not one lick of it is canon! Not even GW's! Google Periclitor. Look. Thirty pages of GW's fluff having him as a Night Lord. He had Night Lord Chosen, operated in Night Lord tactics. Fought for greed and self-power. And Forgeworld changed him to a Word Bearer. And there are many, many, many other examples. So to say the fluff is set in stone just because you're quoting the Lexicanum is wrong. There's no imagination, no creative drive, no spark of self. It might as well be useless at that point since this whole thing is about making an army that is yours.

 

By the way, haven't you heard? We're in 6th Edition now. 3.5 is outdated.

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QKDMwbFbaY4/UF-URCTYmWI/AAAAAAAACcE/9_zB3NbdoN0/s1600/P1050839.JPG

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I play a Word Bearer force without daemons :D

 

Ah well, it's for the player to decide if they want to mix in the fluff with their army.

Again if you have doubts between both armies (who are not different since they both will come from codex CSM) just look at the fluff and let that inspire you.

Ok. Think of it like this. I specialize in being a mod. It's my job, it's my theme song, it's what keeps my ego intact. Cool. Does that mean I can only ever do mod actions? No, I'm participating in this discussion as a frater. And it's totally ok for me to do that, because I'm certainly not breaking any rules.

 

Similarily, Word Bearers specialize in being daemonmancers. It's their gift, it's their slice of pie, it's what they do with all the leftover bodies. Cool. Does that mean they can only ever be daemonmancers? No, they have their line troopers and raptors and what not too. And it's ok for them to do that, because they need those astartes to wage war a lot more than they need daemons.

[Killax]

Wow. Really. Okay, try telling A-D-B and Anthoney Reynolds that. Alos, tell Forgeworld. They made Periclitor a Word Bearer. And yet he never once used daemons. Yet he is "canon", goes beyond just mere fluff. And yet his existence refutes your claim because the only daemon inside his entire army is himself. To be honest, you're reminding me of a conversation I had with Forgeworld a while back because according to them, if there is no vox interference and use of scare tactics, then a single attack could not have been made by a band of Night Lords just because of that one anomaly, that one time when they didn't do it all because that is their specialty. The Iron Warriors' specialty is artillery and siege tactics. But that isn't always what they do. A specialty is something you are good at doing, not something you always do. You are using words to cement your beliefs in stone and trying to take fluff that is completely malleable and make solid as rock when it is actuallly as fluid as water. It is constantly changing. The Word Bearers rely on daemons as shock troops. But they won't always be able to summon daemons. And they won't always be fighting a battle that requires shock troops. So no, they will not always use daemons. To say otherwise is going against the fluff is pure folly because as long as it isn't Mary Sue, everything is the fluff. Nothing goes against it because it is fluff, not canon. There is no rigidity, no formal structure. It can and will change and what happens in part, does not have to happen in the other. It's just one big blob of timey-wimey-wibbly-wobbly mess that anyone can pull whatever they want out of it. An Iron Warriors Gran Company that specializes in CC. Night Lords who use artillery and rely on daemons as shock troops. Word Bearers who prefer a spec ops approach and make heavy use of mortal Infiltrators as scouts and saboteurs while they stay behind the scenes unless it benefits them and so on and so on. And it works. And you know why? Because it's fluff! Not one lick of it is canon! Not even GW's! Google Periclitor. Look. Thirty pages of GW's fluff having him as a Night Lord. He had Night Lord Chosen, operated in Night Lord tactics. Fought for greed and self-power. And Forgeworld changed him to a Word Bearer. And there are many, many, many other examples. So to say the fluff is set in stone just because you're quoting the Lexicanum is wrong. There's no imagination, no creative drive, no spark of self. It might as well be useless at that point since this whole thing is about making an army that is yours.

 

Haha, you don't understand the term personal opinion, now do you?

Again I am not claiming anything for fact, only opinion but again I shall quote myself:

 

You cannot play Word Bearers without Daemons imho.

imho = In my honest opinion

 

I am also not saying that anyone should or else it's wrong. The thing is, even if you don't always use your speciality it is what you are known for and thus fits the army really well. If your army is really capable in shooting cannons, why would you not make use of this? Common sence would let you take familiar war-tactics to battles you have.

 

As you reacted you act like all new fluff is cannon and old is not, wrong thought there mate!