Forgefiends and Maulerfiends

[darknightdrako]

Mauler fiends would be an interesting unit to use. Since it can move 12", it can move ruin to ruin and hopefully get a 3+ cover save.

 

My only wish for the Forgefiend is that it has a 48" range with its hades cannons. Which reminds me, I hope defilers and dreadnoughts will get TL-AutoCannons not the reaper cannon.

[Zedrenael]

Well the forgefiend will go the way of the dreadnought. I say this because dreadnoughts dedicated to close combat are no longer good with so many grenades hitting on WS now and not just 6's With armor 12 it will be glanced to death in the assault phase with that WS 3.

 

Scenario

Assault a squad of tactical marines (10 man). You are intiative 3 and they are intiative 4. They attack you getting 3s to hit and needing 6s to glance. That is to say they do not have a meltabomb. Now 10 dice getting 6-7 hits. That is one glance in the assault. You will kill what 1-2 on the charge. In the end statistically they will destroy you before you finish that assault and move on to the next endeavor. That is also not to say they do not have a power fist.

[Feste]

Having had the chance to see other angles of the models I must say I think the models look a lot better than I previously thought! Glad I'm wrong really, though I still prefer "cyberdemons" to 40K Daemons :huh:

 

I'm not too scared of the Maulerfiends really, since they are not so much of a threat at range and up close they actually only have 2 attacks base, WS3 and I3. I've lost count of the amount of Defilers I've destroyed with my Dreadnoughts in assaults, and with their low amount of attacks I can just lose the combat with minimal losses and then use Combat Tactics to get away and shoot the thing to death up close.

 

To be honest, no one got much mileage out of Defilers tooled for just assaults, and I really don't think Maulerfiends will be much diffferent, unforunately...

 

Forgefiends with their heavy firepower on the other hand might start creeping into lists. I'm happy to see a bit of variance and move away from Obliterators, because they are the most boring model in the world to me thanks to their over use!

I don't think the model with the lasher whips is quite tentacle-y for my liking. But that's an easy fix. It's got two powerfists, so it ends up with three attacks and the magma cutters will give it a bonus attack or two. Not insanely powerful, but it does start to push the threat level up. The interesting thing for me is it's speed, you may be able to use it as a counter-assault model to get to where you're beginning to look weak, to tie units up, or just to get in someone's face quickly.

 

 

Well the forgefiend will go the way of the dreadnought. I say this because dreadnoughts dedicated to close combat are no longer good with so many grenades hitting on WS now and not just 6's With armor 12 it will be glanced to death in the assault phase with that WS 3.

 

Scenario

Assault a squad of tactical marines (10 man). You are intiative 3 and they are intiative 4. They attack you getting 3s to hit and needing 6s to glance. That is to say they do not have a meltabomb. Now 10 dice getting 6-7 hits. That is one glance in the assault. You will kill what 1-2 on the charge. In the end statistically they will destroy you before you finish that assault and move on to the next endeavor. That is also not to say they do not have a power fist.

Just to check, the forgefiend is the ranged version of this while the maulerfiend is the CC version. Are you meaning to refer to the maulerfiend?

[Iron Sage]

Well the forgefiend will go the way of the dreadnought. I say this because dreadnoughts dedicated to close combat are no longer good with so many grenades hitting on WS now and not just 6's With armor 12 it will be glanced to death in the assault phase with that WS 3.

 

Scenario

Assault a squad of tactical marines (10 man). You are intiative 3 and they are intiative 4. They attack you getting 3s to hit and needing 6s to glance. That is to say they do not have a meltabomb. Now 10 dice getting 6-7 hits. That is one glance in the assault. You will kill what 1-2 on the charge. In the end statistically they will destroy you before you finish that assault and move on to the next endeavor. That is also not to say they do not have a power fist.

 

But is driving a mauler fiend solo against a 10 man marine squad the best use for a mauler fiend??? Seriously?? You would never do that, unless you were forced to assault it for tactical reasons or lack of other viable targets surely.

[Lepaca]

Just to clarify: Because the mauler fiend has 2 magmacutters it gets 2 bonus attacks as long as one of its normal attacks hits and 4 bonus attacks of all of its attacks hits, right?

[Iron Sage]

Just to clarify: Because the mauler fiend has 2 magmacutters it gets 2 bonus attacks as long as one of its normal attacks hits and 4 bonus attacks of all of its attacks hits, right?

 

It gets ONE magma cutter attack if it hits at all, and TWO if all of its attacks some how hits. So usually you will have 1 magma attack extra.

[Smurfalypse]

I'm not entirely sold on them yet vs 4 rocket or autocanon havocs. Especially with skyfire missiles which are one of those annoying metagame upgrades which are either really nice to have or do nothing.

 

havocs are going to be a must have for all comers lists....

 

I don't think I fully agree with this, the NOVA Open the two top people had zero flyers and zero anti flyers, both beat flyer lists on their way to winning. To say that they are current a must have is a bit of a stretch so far.

 

I need to correct this a bit, the Daemon player did have two daemon princes with wings. While they are flyers they are certainly not anti flyers.

[greatcrusade08]

gievn thier cost and lower strength too, it might work out cheaper and more efficient to have an aegis line with quad gun anyway

[Cmdr Shepard]

I have pre-ordered two boxes of "fiends" (I planned a dark maechanicus theme :o ) and I'm unsure how to build them.

One will be assembled as Forgefiend for fire support, even though I'm uncertain about the weapons (ectoplasma vs hades).

I have not decided about the second one yet.

 

I know the maulerfiend has the pontential to achieve turn 2 charge but I'm worried about its WS3 and I3, more worried then AV12.

I think the best role for the maulerfiend is not anti-infatry but anti-vehicle. Since vehicles are considered WS1 at best it will hit them on 3+ and its S10 AP2 attacks will have little trouble in destroying most vehicles (it even glances Land Raiders and Monoliths on 4+)

 

However I don't know if this justify the maulerfiend inclusion in a army. If we want to spam some vehicle (otherwise the fiends will die fast) why don't just field two forgefiends for fire support? Many CSM are pretty good in CC and veterans of the long war means they will reroll failed hits in the first turn of combat.

 

So what do you think, 2 Forgefiends or 1 Forgefiend + 1 maulerfiend?

[Chaeron]

Forgefiend is ideal for any list I think - I'm yet to be convinced by a Mauler, but it certainly has potential!

[Smurfalypse]

Well the forgefiend will go the way of the dreadnought. I say this because dreadnoughts dedicated to close combat are no longer good with so many grenades hitting on WS now and not just 6's With armor 12 it will be glanced to death in the assault phase with that WS 3.

 

Scenario

Assault a squad of tactical marines (10 man). You are intiative 3 and they are intiative 4. They attack you getting 3s to hit and needing 6s to glance. That is to say they do not have a meltabomb. Now 10 dice getting 6-7 hits. That is one glance in the assault. You will kill what 1-2 on the charge. In the end statistically they will destroy you before you finish that assault and move on to the next endeavor. That is also not to say they do not have a power fist.

 

This is a little bit misleading and not including all of the rules we know about with the Maulerfiend. He has two powerfists, so actually has four attacks on the charge, then if they get a hit the two underside lazer beams get an additional auto hit each, if all of your melee attacks hit they each get two. We also do not know what upgrades they can take or what exactly their whip thingies do. With the magma cutters your priority targets are going to be other vehicles (land raider type stuff), with the whips i would assume your targets will be infantry units.

 

Either way i think the idea is to crash the enemies line and cause a little havoc. They will have their place in some lists, probably not CSM shooty lists though, they are an addon to an assault primary CSM army more than likely...But we will see in less than a week :o

 

Really looking forward to see peoples results in games after the codex comes out, very excited for it.

[Iron Sage]

Well the forgefiend will go the way of the dreadnought. I say this because dreadnoughts dedicated to close combat are no longer good with so many grenades hitting on WS now and not just 6's With armor 12 it will be glanced to death in the assault phase with that WS 3.

 

Scenario

Assault a squad of tactical marines (10 man). You are intiative 3 and they are intiative 4. They attack you getting 3s to hit and needing 6s to glance. That is to say they do not have a meltabomb. Now 10 dice getting 6-7 hits. That is one glance in the assault. You will kill what 1-2 on the charge. In the end statistically they will destroy you before you finish that assault and move on to the next endeavor. That is also not to say they do not have a power fist.

 

This is a little bit misleading and not including all of the rules we know about with the Maulerfiend. He has two powerfists, so actually has four attacks on the charge, then if they get a hit the two underside lazer beams get an additional auto hit each, if all of your melee attacks hit they each get two. We also do not know what upgrades they can take or what exactly their whip thingies do. With the magma cutters your priority targets are going to be other vehicles (land raider type stuff), with the whips i would assume your targets will be infantry units.

 

Either way i think the idea is to crash the enemies line and cause a little havoc. They will have their place in some lists, probably not CSM shooty lists though, they are an addon to an assault primary CSM army more than likely...But we will see in less than a week :)

 

Really looking forward to see peoples results in games after the codex comes out, very excited for it.

 

Also, why the hell would you ever want to assault a 10 man tactical marine squad if you are not forced to do so. Perhaps some people have failed to notice, but the Mauler Fiend is not best used against infantry (though its probably good against super heavy infantry aka termies).

 

I AM going to buy and field a mauler fiend, and I for one will use it to cleave open Leman Russ and etc.

[greatcrusade08]

does anyone know points?

[Smurfalypse]

Just to clarify: Because the mauler fiend has 2 magmacutters it gets 2 bonus attacks as long as one of its normal attacks hits and 4 bonus attacks of all of its attacks hits, right?

 

It gets ONE magma cutter attack if it hits at all, and TWO if all of its attacks some how hits. So usually you will have 1 magma attack extra.

 

Correct for ONE magna cutter, it comes with two. So one hit = +2 bonus hits, all hit = +4 bonus hits :)

[Iron Sage]

Just to clarify: Because the mauler fiend has 2 magmacutters it gets 2 bonus attacks as long as one of its normal attacks hits and 4 bonus attacks of all of its attacks hits, right?

 

It gets ONE magma cutter attack if it hits at all, and TWO if all of its attacks some how hits. So usually you will have 1 magma attack extra.

 

Correct for ONE magna cutter, it comes with two. So one hit = +2 bonus hits, all hit = +4 bonus hits :)

 

Oh...Damn. But then they actually have a lot of attacks, and more than I thought...

[Azekai]

Mauler Fiend is not best used against infantry (though its probably good against super heavy infantry aka termies).

 

Gotta disagree there, Iron Sage- the termies are gonna take a hit, sure, one or two die, but then their axes/hammers hit back and the Mauler goes kaput. 1 or 2 dead termies a Mauler does not justify, methinks.

 

It can destroy vehicles, sure, but just about anything can do that. Our csms can krak/melta stuff do death in cc if we have to, and there are always oblits and havocs and forgefiends for anti-vehicle or anti-infantry fire support.

 

Unless Maulerfiends are way 'undercosted,' i.e; dirt cheap, they probably will not be up to the task.

[Iron Sage]

Mauler Fiend is not best used against infantry (though its probably good against super heavy infantry aka termies).

 

Gotta disagree there, Iron Sage- the termies are gonna take a hit, sure, one or two die, but then their axes/hammers hit back and the Mauler goes kaput. 1 or 2 dead termies a Mauler does not justify, methinks.

 

It can destroy vehicles, sure, but just about anything can do that. Our csms can krak/melta stuff do death in cc if we have to, and there are always oblits and havocs and forgefiends for anti-vehicle or anti-infantry fire support.

 

Unless Maulerfiends are way 'undercosted,' i.e; dirt cheap, they probably will not be up to the task.

 

Fair enough conerning the terminators.

 

But I dont think the 12" move and ignore difficult terrain (even when charging) is to be underestimated.

[Feste]

Just to clarify: Because the mauler fiend has 2 magmacutters it gets 2 bonus attacks as long as one of its normal attacks hits and 4 bonus attacks of all of its attacks hits, right?

 

It gets ONE magma cutter attack if it hits at all, and TWO if all of its attacks some how hits. So usually you will have 1 magma attack extra.

 

Correct for ONE magna cutter, it comes with two. So one hit = +2 bonus hits, all hit = +4 bonus hits :D

Wow, didn't think of that. That's pretty brutal, and incredibly cool. I wasn't sure that 1-2 Str 8 melta attacks would be that good on a Str 10 walker but 2-4 is quite cool actually.

 

 

Gotta disagree there, Iron Sage- the termies are gonna take a hit, sure, one or two die, but then their axes/hammers hit back and the Mauler goes kaput. 1 or 2 dead termies a Mauler does not justify, methinks.

What about if you take Lasher Whips with it. The termies are now down to one attack each, halving their damage output. At that point the Mauler could come out of a round uninjured.

[Cmdr Shepard]

What about if you take Lasher Whips with it. The termies are now down to one attack each, halving their damage output. At that point the Mauler could come out of a round uninjured.

 

Do they reduce every model involved in combat to one attack or do they affect only models in base to base?

[Attomsk]

Base to base, also if they are actually 135 pts like they are rumored to be... that might make them quite interesting.

[Feste]

What about if you take Lasher Whips with it. The termies are now down to one attack each, halving their damage output. At that point the Mauler could come out of a round uninjured.

 

Do they reduce every model involved in combat to one attack or do they affect only models in base to base?

Base to base, but it's such a huge base on the thing that I can't see getting a 5-man squad of Terminators entirely into base contact to be a massive problem. I presume that you're thinking differently?

[Captain Idaho]

Oh wow, with that many attacks they aren't too bad in the right lists then! Those lists geared for heavy assaults will have so many targets the Maulerfiends will be useful.

[Iron Sage]

Oh wow, with that many attacks they aren't too bad in the right lists then! Those lists geared for heavy assaults will have so many targets the Maulerfiends will be useful.

 

Thats what I suspect as well.

My plan is to try running a mauler fiend along side 2 defiler and a landraider as well as a hellbrute or two (two, depending on points, since I want to afford some terminators as well)

[space wolf]

I'm not entirely sold on them yet vs 4 rocket or autocanon havocs. Especially with skyfire missiles which are one of those annoying metagame upgrades which are either really nice to have or do nothing.

 

havocs are going to be a must have for all comers lists....

 

I don't think I fully agree with this, the NOVA Open the two top people had zero flyers and zero anti flyers, both beat flyer lists on their way to winning. To say that they are current a must have is a bit of a stretch so far.

 

I need to correct this a bit, the Daemon player did have two daemon princes with wings. While they are flyers they are certainly not anti flyers.

 

I disagree. If they can swoop, they can certainly target fliers much easier with a ranged attack. Additionally, as time goes on the amount of fliers we see in game is only going to get larger. I play guard, so I know how bad it can get when vendettas are rammed into your face, and you don't have any air support or anti-air contingencies. Its not pretty. That being said, I suppose you can get by without them by taking the drakes, but if it were me, I'd probably have one of each.

[Smurfalypse]

I'm not entirely sold on them yet vs 4 rocket or autocanon havocs. Especially with skyfire missiles which are one of those annoying metagame upgrades which are either really nice to have or do nothing.

 

havocs are going to be a must have for all comers lists....

 

I don't think I fully agree with this, the NOVA Open the two top people had zero flyers and zero anti flyers, both beat flyer lists on their way to winning. To say that they are current a must have is a bit of a stretch so far.

 

I need to correct this a bit, the Daemon player did have two daemon princes with wings. While they are flyers they are certainly not anti flyers.

 

I disagree. If they can swoop, they can certainly target fliers much easier with a ranged attack. Additionally, as time goes on the amount of fliers we see in game is only going to get larger. I play guard, so I know how bad it can get when vendettas are rammed into your face, and you don't have any air support or anti-air contingencies. Its not pretty. That being said, I suppose you can get by without them by taking the drakes, but if it were me, I'd probably have one of each.

 

The Space Wolf player who won had zero flyers and zero anti air. Also a daemon prince vector striking at str 7 vs most flyers isnt a big deal. Needing a 5 to glance is just a slow way to take them down.

 

Also as time goes on and more codexs get some anti air upgrades or units, the amount of flyers we see will go down considerably. The only reason we see so many now is because of the lack of counter to them.