Forgefiends and Maulerfiends

[RAWFIST]

So I am leaning toward taking two forgefiends backed buy two helbrutes at 1000. What do you guys think, is that enough mech or should I try to put in one more? Also I am going to try and kit bash my own forgefiends as I am not a fan of the model, so does anyone have the dimensions of it? Width, height, and length. Thinking that the forgeworld blood slaughterer was more in line with my taste, so will be trying to build something like that. Just need to find 4 Hades autocannons..

[Cmdr Shepard]

Striking last because models are behind cover is hardly a big issue considering there isn't really THAT much terrain to hide behind. And even so, the thing is AV12 and has some decent rules to keep it alive, and it's pretty fast.

 

Besides, I don't see people moaning about Bloodthirsters not having grenades!

 

I'm actually liking the Maulerfiend, but then that's because I love Walkers and take mechanised armies as standard.

I'm a fan of walkers too. That was the main reason I'd like to play it :)

 

Striking last because models are behind cover is hardly a big issue considering there isn't really THAT much terrain to hide behind. And even so, the thing is AV12 and has some decent rules to keep it alive, and it's pretty fast.

 

Besides, I don't see people moaning about Bloodthirsters not having grenades!

 

I'm actually liking the Maulerfiend, but then that's because I love Walkers and take mechanised armies as standard.

Yeah but a Bloodthirster has a 3+/4++ save and a WS9...,those two makes a lots of differences.

 

Bloodthirster cost more then twice the mauler cost, has a T6 so S4 wounds it on 6 like the grenades need to roll to glance the walker but models are not limited to a single attack.

Sure Bloodthirster is better but you pay more then 250 pts for it; has to be put in reserves, cannot assault the turn it arrives.

Mauler is cheaper, starts the match on the table and can put pressure on the enemy since the beginning. Oh and it does not fear Warp Quake :)

 

I can't see why you would take a Maulerfiend over a Chaos Daemon ally, or a Forgefiend over Obliterators.

 

Not with AV12 in Plasma Edition

 

I'm more inclined to agree with you about Forgefiends vs Obliterators then Maulerfiends vs Daemon ally. If you want effective greater daemons you have to pay points you may want to use for your other CSM units. You also have to take a mandatory troop choice and daemon troops are not top quality. You can take the minum number of nurglings but your are giving your opponent an easy to kill unit.

[Captain Idaho]

Striking last because models are behind cover is hardly a big issue considering there isn't really THAT much terrain to hide behind. And even so, the thing is AV12 and has some decent rules to keep it alive, and it's pretty fast.

 

Besides, I don't see people moaning about Bloodthirsters not having grenades!

 

I'm actually liking the Maulerfiend, but then that's because I love Walkers and take mechanised armies as standard.

Yeah but a Bloodthirster has a 3+/4++ save and a WS9...,those two makes a lots of differences.

 

A squad of Tactical Marines can strike with 9 Krak Grenades (presuming the Bloodthirsters challenges the Sergeant, who refuses, then can't fight) and will wound on a 4+. This is fairly damaging for even a Blood Thirster.

 

Note many Daemon players won't want to challenge the Sergeant, because he will likely die and the unit will be saved from destruction. Space Marine opponents can then fall back and auto rally, shooting the Bloodthirster to death afterwards.

 

At least the Maulerfiend is only glanced on a 6+, and then receives a save and subsequently regenerate Hull Points. Not too shabby!

[Spacefrisian]

Is it allowed to photo copy rules from a codex here?

[Captain Idaho]

Safer to explain the rule. ;)

[Cmdr Shepard]

Striking last because models are behind cover is hardly a big issue considering there isn't really THAT much terrain to hide behind. And even so, the thing is AV12 and has some decent rules to keep it alive, and it's pretty fast.

 

Besides, I don't see people moaning about Bloodthirsters not having grenades!

 

I'm actually liking the Maulerfiend, but then that's because I love Walkers and take mechanised armies as standard.

Yeah but a Bloodthirster has a 3+/4++ save and a WS9...,those two makes a lots of differences.

 

A squad of Tactical Marines can strike with 9 Krak Grenades (presuming the Bloodthirsters challenges the Sergeant, who refuses, then can't fight) and will wound on a 4+. This is fairly damaging for even a Blood Thirster.

 

Note many Daemon players won't want to challenge the Sergeant, because he will likely die and the unit will be saved from destruction. Space Marine opponents can then fall back and auto rally, shooting the Bloodthirster to death afterwards.

 

At least the Maulerfiend is only glanced on a 6+, and then receives a save and subsequently regenerate Hull Points. Not too shabby!

 

I agree. I believe I'm one of the very persons who does not hate the Maulerfiend :D

You have a very good point on the challanging sergeant. Since the Bloodthirster is a one model unit it cannot refusing the challange so it wastes all of its attacks in order to kill a single sergeant.

 

Personally I'll be more then happy to sacrifice a sergeant to keep the rest of the squad alive. In the next turn I can even bring reinforcements to the fight.

[undeadfilth]

I'm concerned that the magna cutters are pointless against anything other than invuln save models, vehicles, and MCs. The wording for them states that the addition attack(s) at str8 ap1 are against the models he has ALREADY HIT. Against most infantry these will be pointless as the str 10 ap2 powerfist attacks will already kill that model, thus the bonus attacks are wasted. Am i correct here? I believe i am. Which to me make the tendrils the much more versatile option.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Yeah the wording is weird, but its just that, after all he can't target specifics models in a unit, so he hits and attacks the unit as a whole, so its tje unit that take the extra hits.

[minigun762]

I'm concerned that the magna cutters are pointless against anything other than invuln save models, vehicles, and MCs. The wording for them states that the addition attack(s) at str8 ap1 are against the models he has ALREADY HIT. Against most infantry these will be pointless as the str 10 ap2 powerfist attacks will already kill that model, thus the bonus attacks are wasted. Am i correct here? I believe i am. Which to me make the tendrils the much more versatile option.

 

I understood it as unit but it does say model.

Hmmm that might be limiting, though its fairly safe to say that they mean unit (at least I hope!)

[undeadfilth]

I think that the first FAQ for this GW will rule it as MODEL since that is how they chose to write it. Makes it to where he can absolutely wreck MCs and Vehicles, but doesn't get much bonus against infantry. Wish you could just take tendrils and magma cutters lol.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I'm concerned that the magna cutters are pointless against anything other than invuln save models, vehicles, and MCs. The wording for them states that the addition attack(s) at str8 ap1 are against the models he has ALREADY HIT. Against most infantry these will be pointless as the str 10 ap2 powerfist attacks will already kill that model, thus the bonus attacks are wasted. Am i correct here? I believe i am. Which to me make the tendrils the much more versatile option.

 

I understood it as unit but it does say model.

Hmmm that might be limiting, though its fairly safe to say that they mean unit (at least I hope!)

 

That's what I think too. Let's see if the FAQ qill explain this. In the meantime I suppose tendrils are a better choice for counter infantry. I believe the 4 attacks on the charge that hit a vehicle on 3+, or auto-hit if the vehicle didn't move in the previous turn, are enough to deal a good amount of damage to most vehicles (a part AV14, perhaps) even without the magna cutters attacks.

[minigun762]

Hmm a model ruling instead of unit would be disappointing.

In addition, I noticed that lashers also reduce friendly attacks. It's something you could work around, but why should you have to?

[Cmdr Shepard]

Hmm a model ruling instead of unit would be disappointing.

In addition, I noticed that lashers also reduce friendly attacks. It's something you could work around, but why should you have to?

 

Since the friendly models will belong to a different unit it won't be so difficult to keept out of base to base contact.

However it's a quite strange rule :P

[Smurfalypse]

Tendrils are not much better of an option than the cutters to be honest. In CC we would fear the mass Krak Grenades being used and the Tendrils do not stop those, in the end he needs to stay out of CC vs units that have grenades, which means he is only "good" vs a very specific type of unit (Tanks that do not fight back). That focus is what makes people like me not want to use him, just way way to specialized to be a unit that strikes fear in the hearts of your opponent.

 

Hell even most lists now are not running very many vehicles, just not seeing much use from the Maulerfiend IMO.

 

The Forgefiend however I think is very decent.

[minigun762]

Tendrils are not much better of an option than the cutters to be honest. In CC we would fear the mass Krak Grenades being used and the Tendrils do not stop those, in the end he needs to stay out of CC vs units that have grenades, which means he is only "good" vs a very specific type of unit (Tanks that do not fight back). That focus is what makes people like me not want to use him, just way way to specialized to be a unit that strikes fear in the hearts of your opponent.

 

Hell even most lists now are not running very many vehicles, just not seeing much use from the Maulerfiend IMO.

 

The Forgefiend however I think is very decent.

 

I get that the mauler is kind of a niche unit, but I'm surprised there isn't more love for the forge fiend. Hades cannons seem to be a strong all purpose weapon and they are on a reasonably durable hull. Only minor drawback I have is they are out ranged by other heavy weapons.

[Dallas Drake]

Tendrils are not much better of an option than the cutters to be honest. In CC we would fear the mass Krak Grenades being used and the Tendrils do not stop those, in the end he needs to stay out of CC vs units that have grenades, which means he is only "good" vs a very specific type of unit (Tanks that do not fight back). That focus is what makes people like me not want to use him, just way way to specialized to be a unit that strikes fear in the hearts of your opponent.

 

Hell even most lists now are not running very many vehicles, just not seeing much use from the Maulerfiend IMO.

 

The Forgefiend however I think is very decent.

 

I get that the mauler is kind of a niche unit, but I'm surprised there isn't more love for the forge fiend. Hades cannons seem to be a strong all purpose weapon and they are on a reasonably durable hull. Only minor drawback I have is they are out ranged by other heavy weapons.

 

Forge is too expensive, plus IWND is ok against autocannons etc but I still face Lascannons & Multimeltas in my meta.

 

Mauler is priced better & despite early reservations I'm coming around to it. Just hate the model's head (lol). WS3 & attacks is a let down too.

 

Dallas

[Slayer le Boucher]

Change the head for a Jugger head or try to convert the head to be like in the illustration of the mauler in the bestiary section, jaws open and stuff.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Tendrils are not much better of an option than the cutters to be honest. In CC we would fear the mass Krak Grenades being used and the Tendrils do not stop those, in the end he needs to stay out of CC vs units that have grenades, which means he is only "good" vs a very specific type of unit (Tanks that do not fight back). That focus is what makes people like me not want to use him, just way way to specialized to be a unit that strikes fear in the hearts of your opponent.

 

Hell even most lists now are not running very many vehicles, just not seeing much use from the Maulerfiend IMO.

 

The Forgefiend however I think is very decent.

 

I get that the mauler is kind of a niche unit, but I'm surprised there isn't more love for the forge fiend. Hades cannons seem to be a strong all purpose weapon and they are on a reasonably durable hull. Only minor drawback I have is they are out ranged by other heavy weapons.

 

The only problem with hades is that you can buy Havocs and have +1BS, +12" range and AP3. Sure if you want 8 shots you pay more then then forgefiend but they seem to be more versatile. However there is old discussion about toughness vs armour :D but if you look for S8 weapons maybe Havocs are more, as I said before, versatile.

 

Yesterday I was looking at my two fiends boxes in order to find some sort of inspiration then I asked to myself: "what fiend's "configuration" gives me something I cannot achieve with other units?"

It obviously maulerfiend is somehow unique so I think I'll build the first kit as a mauler, then I'll think about the other fiend

 

Regarding Tendrills vs cutters: I think it's not difficult to model both of them on the mauler so we can decide what to use when we build the list and still be "what you see is what you get" approved ;)

[minigun762]

The only problem with hades is that you can buy Havocs and have +1BS, +12" range and AP3. Sure if you want 8 shots you pay more then then forgefiend but they seem to be more versatile. However there is old discussion about toughness vs armour :) but if you look for S8 weapons maybe Havocs are more, as I said before, versatile.

 

Yesterday I was looking at my two fiends boxes in order to find some sort of inspiration then I asked to myself: "what fiend's "configuration" gives me something I cannot achieve with other units?"

It obviously maulerfiend is somehow unique so I think I'll build the first kit as a mauler, then I'll think about the other fiend

 

I actually had to spend some time considering where the dual hades would beat the quad skyfire missiles. What I found was its a better choice against all non-flyer vehicles as well as 4+ or 2+ armor save targets. On the rest of stuff, havoks win out.

[Cmdr Shepard]

The only problem with hades is that you can buy Havocs and have +1BS, +12" range and AP3. Sure if you want 8 shots you pay more then then forgefiend but they seem to be more versatile. However there is old discussion about toughness vs armour :) but if you look for S8 weapons maybe Havocs are more, as I said before, versatile.

 

Yesterday I was looking at my two fiends boxes in order to find some sort of inspiration then I asked to myself: "what fiend's "configuration" gives me something I cannot achieve with other units?"

It obviously maulerfiend is somehow unique so I think I'll build the first kit as a mauler, then I'll think about the other fiend

 

I actually had to spend some time considering where the dual hades would beat the quad skyfire missiles. What I found was its a better choice against all non-flyer vehicles as well as 4+ or 2+ armor save targets. On the rest of stuff, havoks win out.

 

True. The Ectoplasm version offers something truly unique but it comes with serious limitations. 1 of those weapons will not fire every 2 turns (theoretically you should roll a 1 every six shots, thus 2 turns, practically you would have to consider all the dices rolled during a turn in order to have more precise statistics ;) ), 24" range and an additional 1" scatter compared to normal MEQ blast weapons.

However it should be golden against 2+ save massed units and hordes. If you fire on a ork mob you will rarely miss the target and 3 ectoplasm means ususally from 12 to 15 wounds for 10-13 dead orks (cover save excepted but we have focused fire for such circumstances ;) ). Two of them can kill a 30 orks mob per turn. As I said 24" is a strong limitation.

 

Anyway it seems the mauler is no longer considered as bad as before... I may give it a try. A mauler plus a spawn unit can put a lot of pressure on the enemy. If you add inflitrating TDA and fast moving raptors you would have something interesting that advance toward enemy lines.

Am I wrong?

[minigun762]

With the ecto build, I see the main competition being oblits. Price and durability are similar but I think the extra range and accuracy of the plasma cannons will win out. Having lascannons as back choice isn't bad either.

 

As for mauler, I feel they are easier to add to a list just because of the price difference. Think of them in a similar fashion as fast moving melta units. I'd keep the cutters because they are cheaper. Hopefully you can pounce on a land raider or leman russ.

[Cmdr Shepard]

With the ecto build, I see the main competition being oblits. Price and durability are similar but I think the extra range and accuracy of the plasma cannons will win out. Having lascannons as back choice isn't bad either.

 

As for mauler, I feel they are easier to add to a list just because of the price difference. Think of them in a similar fashion as fast moving melta units. I'd keep the cutters because they are cheaper. Hopefully you can pounce on a land raider or leman russ.

 

Good point. They can also hunt for unit with no grenades. Think about a necron warriros unit with no scythe lord. Once it is in CC their gauss weapons cannot hurt it :devil:

The only adavantage of the ecto over the oblits is the ability to instant kill T4 multi-wounds models and the fact oblits cannot use the plasma two turn in a row, but they get other interesting weapon...

 

I think for now I'll use the mauler in the way you suggested. I'll add some spawn just to increase the "pressure".

With Huron I'll have an infiltrating infantry unit joining the "pressure".

[Circus Nurgling]

How tall are these things, exactly? How tall would you say you could legally make them? I'm curious because I want to make a bi-pedal walker proxy using quite a few of the forge-fiend bits.

[Verythrax Draconis]

How tall are these things, exactly? How tall would you say you could legally make them? I'm curious because I want to make a bi-pedal walker proxy using quite a few of the forge-fiend bits.

 

Dunno, but by the BoW unboxing video, I risk to say that it at least seems to be as tall as a carnifex.

[Seahawk]

See, I'd think the forgefiends would win out every time over plasma obliterators. The obliterators can only fire them every other turn; forgefiend fires every turn. You only need S1 to hurt obliterators; S6 to hurt fiends. Ectoplasm can insta-gib paladins and most other annoyances, and crack transports better than plasma cannons. Obliterators get a better save, sure, but that's mainly it.