Do chaos marines use gene seeds?

[sunspear]

Just curious, I am sure this has been asked before but I am trying to come up with some fluff for my warband.

[Olis]

To make more Chaos marines? Yes, if they can get a hold of some. There's three options I know of for acquiring gene-seed open to Chaos marines - 1) Steal it from the corpses of their enemies. The Astral Claws/Red Corsairs are a case in point with their Corpse-Takers. 2) Steal it from Imperial gene-seed repositories (99.9% of the time from individual loyalist chapters - Huron Blackheart has done this with the Marines Errant). In Storm of Iron one of the really major repositories of the Imperium (well, one of two, really - the other major repository is on Mars) was raided by the Iron Warriors after they had defeated the defenders and sent the majority of the haul, iirc, to Abaddon. 3) Harvest it from their brethren, provided it isn't corrupted. The Night Lords have done this in A D-B's eponymous trilogy.

[Iron Sage]

To make more Chaos marines? Yes, if they can get a hold of some. There's three options I know of for acquiring gene-seed open to Chaos marines - 1) Steal it from the corpses of their enemies. The Astral Claws/Red Corsairs are a case in point with their Corpse-Takers. 2) Steal it from Imperial gene-seed repositories (99.9% of the time from individual loyalist chapters - Huron Blackheart has done this with the Marines Errant). In Storm of Iron one of the really major repositories of the Imperium (well, one of two, really - the other major repository is on Mars) was raided by the Iron Warriors after they had defeated the defenders and sent the majority of the haul, iirc, to Abaddon. 3) Harvest it from their brethren, provided it isn't corrupted. The Night Lords have done this in A D-B's eponymous trilogy.

 

What he said.

 

In the HORRIBLY written third (or is it second?) book of the Uriel Ventris Ultramarines Triology (how the hell could he write Storm of Iron and then that crap afterwards???), the Iron Warriors breeds adult Marines for some stupid reason, in some kind of "Mother Breeder" (how those marines, completly lacking human experience and thus full grown retards, become intelligent marines, he does not seek to explain).

 

Then again, this is also the book where Ventris travels on some sort of "Doom train" through the warp, which is guided by some sort of Iron Warrior obliterator type. Seriously the Uriel Ventris triology, while the first book is perfectly decent for a black library book, is plunged into endless sillyness in the second and third books.

 

I first read Storm of Iron. Then I read the Ultramarines triology, and I could hardly belive it was the same authour....

[Kol Saresk]

Third book. And he does sort of explain it. Honsou was making new Iron Warriors by putting human children into the wombs of the Daemoncubala(aka a Daemonic incubator). It was an untried method and as a result, the Fleshborn were made because it wasn't working. The Daemoncubala had no blue print to go off so to speak and as a result, everything that was made was unique and random. The Newborn was a somewhat success simply because it was the only one made with a blueprint. That blueprint was Uriel Ventris. The process was still messed up because Uriel Ventris escaped before it was completed. And since the Daemoncubala and their creators were destroyed, Honsou was unable to recreate them. Otherwise, I'd imagine that the process of creating a new Chaos Marine goes rather like the Imperials.

[Iron Sage]

Third book. And he does sort of explain it. Honsou was making new Iron Warriors by putting human children into the wombs of the Daemoncubala(aka a Daemonic incubator). It was an untried method and as a result, the Fleshborn were made because it wasn't working. The Daemoncubala had no blue print to go off so to speak and as a result, everything that was made was unique and random. The Newborn was a somewhat success simply because it was the only one made with a blueprint. That blueprint was Uriel Ventris. The process was still messed up because Uriel Ventris escaped before it was completed. And since the Daemoncubala and their creators were destroyed, Honsou was unable to recreate them. Otherwise, I'd imagine that the process of creating a new Chaos Marine goes rather like the Imperials.

 

Fascinating how the authour explained how Ventris could visit the Iron Warriors fortress world, eh? Locomotive through the warp and everything. That was for sure a litterary tool I had never before seen...

[Vesper]

Iron Sage is making this so funny that I almost wish I could find the ressources to read it.

[Kol Saresk]

Iron Sage is making this so funny that I almost wish I could find the ressources to read it.

Just pick up an Ultramarines Omnibus. And funnily enough, he's not wrong about how they got there. All we need is a butterfly and we can make it the Reading Rainbow :(

[Warsmith Aznable]

In the HORRIBLY written third (or is it second?) book of the Uriel Ventris Ultramarines Triology (how the hell could he write Storm of Iron and then that crap afterwards???), the Iron Warriors breeds adult Marines for some stupid reason, in some kind of "Mother Breeder" (how those marines, completly lacking human experience and thus full grown retards, become intelligent marines, he does not seek to explain).

 

The "for some reason" is that it doesn't take a lot of time to do it. The traditional way is to slowly implant Space Marine gubbins into children as they grow into maturity. In the Daemonculaba they stick a child into the daemon womb, stuff in some Space Marine gubbins after it, and a short bit later you get something you can put armor on and send out to kill things. No long wait, just shove a bolter in their hands and send them to the front.

 

The Unborn (or whatever it was called) was stuck in the same Daemonculaba as Ventris, and somehow (plot magic) came out as part mutated child and part Ventris clone. He was apparently some kind of special case, and I don't recall them talking about how the other marines created by the Daemonculaba acted. It is revealed, however, that the children used for the Daemonculaba weren't just babies they happened to have laying about, but children of the proper age for the traditional implantation process who were kidnapped from a schola that was training orphans to become commissars. Or something. I imagined that whatever plot-magic turns a kindapped child into a fully grown Space Marine in less than a week also does something to their minds. Probably through Warp exposure. Or something.

 

I have a love-hate relationship with those books...

[Kol Saresk]

From everything I've ever read, the Newborn was the only success with the Daemoncubala. The rest were the mutants the Ventris had to kill because they were possessed by the dead.

[Iron Sage]

From everything I read, it just was a bloody awful book (though as I said, first part was okay, until the authour ate too many shrooms and forgot that he was writing to an audience).

 

There is a reason why i dont remember all the details. My brain has certain mechanisms, protecting it from the worst attrocities in litterature. Sadly, this makes me also unable to write a resymè of said attrocity.

 

More interesting, is to advocate to you all to forget this horror, and simply not read the book and rather listen to "Locomotive Breath" by Jethro Tull ^^

[Kol Saresk]

Already said and done. Actually, I quite liked the Daemon Fight between the Slaughterman and the Heart of Blood.

[Iron Sage]

Already said and done. Actually, I quite liked the Daemon Fight between the Slaughterman and the Heart of Blood.

 

This can`t have impressed me, since its part of the huge blackouts I have regarding the book :P :P

[Trevak Dal]

I took the idea of the "daemonculaba" thing and retconned it as I saw fit, because as it was...it was dumb. They'd put in kids, young adults, etc. into the device, and come out like Urak-hai. Given the Astartes healing capabilities (changed based on Geneseed sources maybe) the skin regrows in a patchwork coloring, similar to the Daggers or Gelfs from the seaQuest DSV show (camo patter skin tones).

 

During the growth process, they are indoctrinated, being taught basic combat skills (also potentially absorbing from the geneseed directly-that's one of those 'fuzzy' details that I've heard both ways). They are then reborn, Matrix style, their skin regrows and they are given armor and weapons and immediately begin drilling by Chosen. Upon affirming that the basics have taken in the growing phase, they are thrown into combat. They start out as rookies in large Squads, those who survive engagements become the veterans (similar to how Blood Claws become Greyhunters and such).

 

They would be, to use terminology from the Halo Universe the "Spartan III" production-scale level of training, in comparison to the "Spartan II" levels of recruitment and trials for 'traditional' Astartes growth, which makes Chaos an even more threatening foe against the Imperium of Man because they can make new Space Marines faster (Theoretically).

 

Given the outcome of Deliverence Lost...it makes a case at least.

[Kol Saresk]

The thing about the Daemoncubala part was the "Daemon" part. It was like putting things in a blender and hoping for the best. Uriel Vetnris was used to stabilize it by providing a blue print for the Daemoncubala to make the new Marines in a fully automated, sped up process. But the Process probably involved Ventris staying in until the Newborn was fully developed. Problem was, his "breakout" ruined the process and resulted in the Newborn being the severely mutated, part-daemonic, "special" individual he is.

[Iron Sage]

In the HORRIBLY written third (or is it second?) book of the Uriel Ventris Ultramarines Triology (how the hell could he write Storm of Iron and then that crap afterwards???), the Iron Warriors breeds adult Marines for some stupid reason, in some kind of "Mother Breeder" (how those marines, completly lacking human experience and thus full grown retards, become intelligent marines, he does not seek to explain).

 

The "for some reason" is that it doesn't take a lot of time to do it. The traditional way is to slowly implant Space Marine gubbins into children as they grow into maturity. In the Daemonculaba they stick a child into the daemon womb, stuff in some Space Marine gubbins after it, and a short bit later you get something you can put armor on and send out to kill things. No long wait, just shove a bolter in their hands and send them to the front.

 

The Unborn (or whatever it was called) was stuck in the same Daemonculaba as Ventris, and somehow (plot magic) came out as part mutated child and part Ventris clone. He was apparently some kind of special case, and I don't recall them talking about how the other marines created by the Daemonculaba acted. It is revealed, however, that the children used for the Daemonculaba weren't just babies they happened to have laying about, but children of the proper age for the traditional implantation process who were kidnapped from a schola that was training orphans to become commissars. Or something. I imagined that whatever plot-magic turns a kindapped child into a fully grown Space Marine in less than a week also does something to their minds. Probably through Warp exposure. Or something.

 

I have a love-hate relationship with those books...

 

I knew that :) Didnt remember the name of the "brood mother" thing though.

 

But it still does not explain how Honsou intended these walking imbeciles without human experience, to accomplish anything, much less how they could be "smart" enough to walk or use their weapons. I am fully aware of "ordinary" marine indoctrination, but this was just very....allow me to use the word "stupid" please. :)

[PipX]

their skin regrows

 

The skin was from the flesh farms that the Unfleshed were attracted to. Apparently Buffalo Bill was an Iron Warrior. IIRC the Unfleshed (And by extension any issue from the daemonculabas) didn't actually grow skin until they were under a real sun, since it triggered the melanochrome.

[PipX]

But it still does not explain how Honsou intended these walking imbeciles without human experience, to accomplish anything, much less how they could be "smart" enough to walk or use their weapons. I am fully aware of "ordinary" marine indoctrination, but this was just very....allow me to use the word "stupid" please. :)

 

Grey Knights basically have their minds wiped away so they also have no human experience, except for whatever they are retrained with and psychotherapy. Space Wolf Blood Claws don't have some past past experiences but are basically thrust into being a Marine.

 

I think one of the main things with the daemonoculabas was it didn't just use gene seed, it also used basically ground up dead Iron Warriors. One of the thoughts I had on it was, maybe the process was based around the omophagea, so not only were they hyper accelerated in growth, but if dead IW brains were used, they basically could have been trained by absorbing the memories. Kind of a reach but sorta makes sense. I don't think Honsou was really in a position for having the best IW's, but needed more bodies. It's not really made clear if he was allowed to keep any of the geneseed they raided, unless that was expanded on in one of the newer books. The ground up IW and daemon science might have been a scheme to prop him up versus the other warsmiths.

[Kol Saresk]

He wasn't supposed to. There was a small snippet about him fighting off a force of Black Legionnaires because he kept some of it for himself and that is what he used to create the Daemoncubala. They were an infinite source of Gene-seed as long as they lived. This is also why Toramino and Berossus attacked him because the Warsmith had promised them a share of the loot and Honsou said no.

[Iron Sage]

He wasn't supposed to. There was a small snippet about him fighting off a force of Black Legionnaires because he kept some of it for himself and that is what he used to create the Daemoncubala. They were an infinite source of Gene-seed as long as they lived. This is also why Toramino and Berossus attacked him because the Warsmith had promised them a share of the loot and Honsou said no.

 

Which is typical of our Legions brotherly love ;)

 

There is a reason why so few Imperial fortress worlds fall to Iron Warriors. After all, the imperium creates inferior fortresses, so its much better sport demolishing properly built Iron Warrior fortifications, and then re-build them into even stronger redoubts when its fallen.

Only if we hear of yellow painted marines within 3 million astronomical units, do we care to unite to actually do some off world sacking like in the old days. After all, nothing tastes like a freshly extracted Dornate gene-meat.

[Kol Saresk]

He wasn't supposed to. There was a small snippet about him fighting off a force of Black Legionnaires because he kept some of it for himself and that is what he used to create the Daemoncubala. They were an infinite source of Gene-seed as long as they lived. This is also why Toramino and Berossus attacked him because the Warsmith had promised them a share of the loot and Honsou said no.

 

Which is typical of our Legions brotherly love ;)

 

There is a reason why so few Imperial fortress worlds fall to Iron Warriors. After all, the imperium creates inferior fortresses, so its much better sport demolishing properly built Iron Warrior fortifications, and then re-build them into even stronger redoubts when its fallen.

Only if we hear of yellow painted marines within 3 million astronomical units, do we care to unite to actually do some off world sacking like in the old days. After all, nothing tastes like a freshly extracted Dornate gene-meat.

I almost have to wonder what a Night Lords fortress would be like since they were in control of the Planet of Steel for a while. Not too mention what it would be like for the Night Lords and Iron Warriors going head-to-head.

[Iron Sage]

He wasn't supposed to. There was a small snippet about him fighting off a force of Black Legionnaires because he kept some of it for himself and that is what he used to create the Daemoncubala. They were an infinite source of Gene-seed as long as they lived. This is also why Toramino and Berossus attacked him because the Warsmith had promised them a share of the loot and Honsou said no.

 

Which is typical of our Legions brotherly love ;)

 

There is a reason why so few Imperial fortress worlds fall to Iron Warriors. After all, the imperium creates inferior fortresses, so its much better sport demolishing properly built Iron Warrior fortifications, and then re-build them into even stronger redoubts when its fallen.

Only if we hear of yellow painted marines within 3 million astronomical units, do we care to unite to actually do some off world sacking like in the old days. After all, nothing tastes like a freshly extracted Dornate gene-meat.

I almost have to wonder what a Night Lords fortress would be like since they were in control of the Planet of Steel for a while. Not too mention what it would be like for the Night Lords and Iron Warriors going head-to-head.

 

Obviously this was only due to an oversight and a lesser heated argument between brothers, enabling those treatcherous vermins of the 8th legion to defile our property for an insignificant ammount of time. Sadly, at the time, Horak and Tark Trellon were busy "debating" who had built the most perfectly angled redoubt, and no one really noticed the 8th legion landing with all of that artillery hammering the ground day in and day out. Simple mistake I tell you! It was rectified when the debate had been properly won!

 

As for the eight Legion in general, its true that we have used them in the past. They do make such grand diversions when they assault a human populace! Obviously its us that have to crack the actual resistance, but then again, we have a tendency not to inform our cousins of the Eight legion of our true purpose in any given attack. After all, they are not only good diversions, but easilly diverted themselves. Show them a soft target with a large population, and you can trust that they will not ask questions as to what we are doing in that old Mechanicus vault built into the mountain side.

[Rain]

Well the Night Lords originally conquered it and built a fortress. Then a bunch of other legions took it for a while, but then the Iron Warriors decided to take care of ;) ing business. Nobody else has claimed it since. As for Night Lords building fortresses they do do that too, the last part of Void Stalker takes place in a ruined Night Lords fortress of some repute. Oh and the Iron Warriors would wipe the floor with the Night Lords. Actually I imagine that the Iron Warriors are probably the single most dangerous legion except for maybe the Black Legion. They are numerous, relatively well organized, extremely well equipped, and have that perfect combination of control and single minded fanaticism that doesn't sacrifice tactical prudence like the World Eaters of Word Bearers.

[Iron Sage]

Well the Night Lords originally conquered it and built a fortress. Then a bunch of other legions took it for a while, but then the Iron Warriors decided to take care of ;) ing business. Nobody else has claimed it since. As for Night Lords building fortresses they do do that too, the last part of Void Stalker takes place in a ruined Night Lords fortress of some repute. Oh and the Iron Warriors would wipe the floor with the Night Lords. Actually I imagine that the Iron Warriors are probably the single most dangerous legion except for maybe the Black Legion. They are numerous, relatively well organized, extremely well equipped, and have that perfect combination of control and single minded fanaticism that doesn't sacrifice tactical prudence like the World Eaters of Word Bearers.

 

My Warmsmith wishes to inform you that you will be honoured to become to next solstice sacrifice to mend with one of the new machine models, if you do not desist in spreading false propaganda, claiming that the Night Lords "built our foundations". As our envoy previously explained, they merely occupied it for an insignificant ammount of time, while we were busy debating amongst ourselves and we can thus assure you,on our honour, that there is no trace left of their histories left on this blessed world.

 

:D

[TheDarkApostle]

The Daemoncubala by the way have their origins with Fabius Bile, as detailed in his "Heroes & Villains of the 41st Millenium" article.

 

TDA

[Kol Saresk]

Well the Night Lords originally conquered it and built a fortress. Then a bunch of other legions took it for a while, but then the Iron Warriors decided to take care of ;) ing business. Nobody else has claimed it since. As for Night Lords building fortresses they do do that too, the last part of Void Stalker takes place in a ruined Night Lords fortress of some repute. Oh and the Iron Warriors would wipe the floor with the Night Lords. Actually I imagine that the Iron Warriors are probably the single most dangerous legion except for maybe the Black Legion. They are numerous, relatively well organized, extremely well equipped, and have that perfect combination of control and single minded fanaticism that doesn't sacrifice tactical prudence like the World Eaters of Word Bearers.

And yet they had their butts whooped by an Ultramarine. At least the Night Lords needed the whole Legion to be wiped out.

 

Serious note, I think it would end up depending on a number of factors from who was the better tactician to the environment itself.