Spawns

[Iron Sage]

I am not yet finished reading the codex (and WOW what an improvement this codex is!),but if anyone is thinking of selling their spawn models for some reason, dont do it!I just bought two on ebay 3 min ago for a good reason.

Some how Phil Kelly has managed to make them viable. No slow and purposeful. Unit type: Beasts...

1-5 "squad".

 

Very Bulky. NO SAVES! But: Okay profile (WS 3,Str and T 5). Way better special rule than previous Spawn nonsense. Rage, Fear, Fearless. Mutated Beyond Reason. Can take marks (Khorne cheapest and Nurgle the most expensive)

 

*Logs off again and goes back to reading*

 

Edit: 3 W of course.

[Azekai]

Do they take up a slot? Are they 'real' FA now? And what does mutated beyond reason do?

[Iron Sage]

Do they take up a slot? Are they 'real' FA now?

 

Seems like they take up a slot. I hardly mind that, they actually seem to be viable. This codex is LUDICROUS in that there are so incredibly many options, many seeming like they are very, very viable.

 

Oh, and bikes are indeed the rumoured cheap cost in case ppl thought that too good to be true.

 

Raptors several points cheaper, now has fear as well, otherwise the same.

 

But now I want to get back to that lovely dark tome.

[Circus Nurgling]

I thought one of the best things about them was that they didn't take up a slot.

[Azekai]

I thought one of the best things about them was that they didn't take up a slot.

Quite so. Why you would take mewling flesh piles when they prevent you from taking dragon/daemon/plane hybrids is beyond me.

[Iron Sage]

I thought one of the best things about them was that they didn't take up a slot.

 

Fair enough, but they are one million times better now, and would for instancebe a fluffy inclusion in Nurgle and Tzeentch builds <_<

 

Also, my earlier mentioned test list, including 2 defilers, a helbrute and a mauler fiend and a landraider with a few termies and a lord, might now indeed also happen to include some fast moving spawns. I see a lot of builds with synergy in this codex :D

 

I thought one of the best things about them was that they didn't take up a slot.

Quite so. Why you would take mewling flesh piles when they prevent you from taking dragon/daemon/plane hybrids is beyond me.

 

Because of synergy with other stuff.

 

Use you immagination, mate :)

[Circus Nurgling]

What base size are Spawns? I may take my Plague Ogryns as spawn...

[Vhalyar]

I thought one of the best things about them was that they didn't take up a slot.

Quite so. Why you would take mewling flesh piles when they prevent you from taking dragon/daemon/plane hybrids is beyond me.

 

Target saturation with T6 Spawns and Maulerfiends. Both are very affordable and don't gimp the rest of your army.

[Iron Sage]

What base size are Spawns? I may take my Plague Ogryns as spawn...

 

Never used spawns before (obviosuly, since they sucked badly in the horrible Thorpe dex), so not sure, but I do believe they are the same size as ogryns. The bases anyway.

 

I thought one of the best things about them was that they didn't take up a slot.

Quite so. Why you would take mewling flesh piles when they prevent you from taking dragon/daemon/plane hybrids is beyond me.

 

Target saturation with T6 Spawns and Maulerfiends. Both are very affordable and don't gimp the rest of your army.

 

Indeed, and most importantly, they are all fast moving, so will go nicely in a list where there are a lot of fast moving threats that spear towards the opponents throath so to speak.

 

3 spawns are after all 90 points base without Marks. +18 points for Nurgle, making 3 spawns 108. That is 9 fast moving T6 wounds, albeit with no saves, but indeed they are too dangerous for the opponent to ignore.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Do they take up a slot? Are they 'real' FA now?

 

Seems like they take up a slot. I hardly mind that, they actually seem to be viable. This codex is LUDICROUS in that there are so incredibly many options, many seeming like they are very, very viable.

 

Oh, and bikes are indeed 20 points in case ppl thought that too good to be true.

 

Raptors 17 points, now has fear as well, otherwise the same.

 

But now I want to get back to that lovely dark tome.

 

So someone was lucky enough to get his own hands on the Codex today ;)

 

The fact the new Codex is full of interesting option is very good.

I'm glad to see spawns are considered to have been "improved", so when my champions will roll spawnhood on the boon table I'll still get something "useful" ;)

[Iron Sage]

Do they take up a slot? Are they 'real' FA now?

 

Seems like they take up a slot. I hardly mind that, they actually seem to be viable. This codex is LUDICROUS in that there are so incredibly many options, many seeming like they are very, very viable.

 

Oh, and bikes are indeed 20 points in case ppl thought that too good to be true.

 

Raptors 17 points, now has fear as well, otherwise the same.

 

But now I want to get back to that lovely dark tome.

 

So someone was lucky enough to get his own hands on the Codex today ;)

 

The fact the new Codex is full of interesting option is very good.

I'm glad to see spawns are considered to have been "improved", so when my champions will roll spawnhood on the boon table I'll still get something "useful" ;)

 

Heh, nah, the actual Codex will hopefully be shipped from England towards my home on the 6th ;)

 

The internet is mysterious though...

[zyl-]

I'm pretty curious how you actually got it 4 days before the rest of us, but perhaps you could answer a few humble questions at your leisure.

 

1. Are 1k sons actually as bad as we have all guessed?

2. can the forgefiend take 2x hades and 1x ectoplasm?

3. do vindicators cost more than the previous 125?

[Azekai]

Heh, nah, the actual Codex will hopefully be shipped from England towards my home on the 6th smile.gif

 

The internet is mysterious though...

Indeed. We can't all be as lucky as the Jeske ;)

[Iron Sage]

I'm pretty curious how you actually got it 4 days before the rest of us, but perhaps you could answer a few humble questions at your leisure.

 

1. Are 1k sons actually as bad as we have all guessed?

2. can the forgefiend take 2x hades and 1x ectoplasm?

3. do vindicators cost more than the previous 125?

 

Sons are like you think they are. Specialists with severe limitations. Same cost as previously. IMO Sons are better in 6ed though, but thats not because of the dex, but rather because of decreased cover save and thus more value for the money for the Invul and the AP 3 stuff.

Not sure on the fiend. It says it may replace hades with ectoplasm. It also says that one can take one extra ecto plasm cannon. I am not actually sure if that means that can only take the extra ecto plasm gun if you have exchanged hades for ecto plasm in the first place. However, I am very sure I have seen a GW pic of the model armed with 2 hades and an ectoplasma head, so I expect you can do that.

 

Vindi 5 points less, and not more ^_^

 

As for the knowledge, I can only say that I read something someone else said on a site by coincidence, which lead me to another site, where I found some info.

 

Anyway, I am a bit less enthusiastic and a tad more sober right now (euphoria has faded some what), so I dont feel comfortable writing costs etc,

[Smurfalypse]

I'm pretty curious how you actually got it 4 days before the rest of us, but perhaps you could answer a few humble questions at your leisure.

 

1. Are 1k sons actually as bad as we have all guessed?

2. can the forgefiend take 2x hades and 1x ectoplasm?

3. do vindicators cost more than the previous 125?

 

1. Yes 1k sons are pretty much not changed, though because psychers are much better, their unit is is slightly better (and can take from Biomancy, my personal favorite :D)

2. yes. It also exchanges its two hades autocannons for two ecto-plasma cannons for free. Can upgrade to take an ecto-plasma in its mouth as well.

3. Slightly cheaper.

 

 

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s326/Smurfalypse/gears2.jpg

 

Biggest disappointing thing i have seen are the possessed BY FAR. They are just absolutely overpriced by a fairly large amount for what they have and what they lack. Kinda absurd really.

 

 

Raptors look great, Warp Talons will be very viable with their deep striking ability because of that Artifact Key Thingy (I was worried about them, but that key really can make them surgical), tons of options on everything, Defiler is an absolute beast in general.

[Iron Sage]

I'm pretty curious how you actually got it 4 days before the rest of us, but perhaps you could answer a few humble questions at your leisure.

 

1. Are 1k sons actually as bad as we have all guessed?

2. can the forgefiend take 2x hades and 1x ectoplasm?

3. do vindicators cost more than the previous 125?

 

1. Yes 1k sons are pretty much not changed, though because psychers are much better, their unit is is slightly better (and can take from Biomancy, my personal favorite :D)

2. yes. It also exchanges its two hades autocannons for two ecto-plasma cannons for free. Can upgrade to take an ecto-plasma in its mouth as well.

3. Slightly cheaper.

 

 

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s326/Smurfalypse/gears2.jpg

 

Biggest disappointing thing i have seen are the possessed BY FAR. They are just absolutely overpriced by a fairly large amount for what they have and what they lack. Kinda absurd really.

 

 

Raptors look great, Warp Talons will be very viable with their deep striking ability because of that Artifact Key Thingy (I was worried about them, but that key really can make them surgical), tons of options on everything, Defiler is an absolute beast in general.

 

Thats the thing about the fiend that I love! It can take a whole ecto-plasma cannon down its throat without choking (sorry, but it was tempting).

 

I agree concerning the Posessed. At least they have fleet and some options.

 

Not sure if the Sons can take biomancy to be honest.

But yeah, tons and tons of options and like you said earlier on another thread, a lot that can put preassure on the enemy on turn 1 ^^

[Excessus]

Just noticed that possessed and warp talon champs can take two gifts!

 

...mutated freaks! :D

[Iron Sage]

Just noticed that possessed and warp talon champs can take two gifts!

 

...mutated freaks! :D

 

Heh, and those gifts are better than people feared as well. You cant start out as a spawn, so worst case is that you get something that you already have or roll the "Tzeentch ignores the pathetic worm that is you".

[Sception]

The key is pretty awesome, but remember it 'keys' off of melee casualties only. Alpha rush combats are pretty hard these days, which means your key probably won't be activated until turn two at the earliest, after which most of your reserves will have arrived already.

 

I'm not saying it's bad - it still strikes me as pretty good, and it's just super cool, bringing an awesome narrative element to the game with its mechanics. But I not sure how big an impact it will have on the effectiveness of warp talons in particular. I think the latter will mostly have to be good on their own merits. I'm still on the fence about them - that cost is pretty high. But I don't think prohibitively so.

 

I'm just excited to see so many fast attack options that seem worth considering. cheap bikes, affordable raptors, strong but pricey talons, the turkey, and even spawn as a viable option? Awesome.

[Vesper]

Am I right when I think base 1 attack is in fact 2 for Warp Talons who are all equiped with pairs of LC ?

[Smurfalypse]

Am I right when I think base 1 attack is in fact 2 for Warp Talons who are all equiped with pairs of LC ?

 

1 base, dual LCs.

[EricBasser]

Anyone else notice Possessed and Warp Talons are daemons? With Mark of Tzeentch, you get 3+/4++ Marines. I was hoping Spawns would be daemons too. 3 wound toughness 5 beasts with a 4++ might be too much to ask for though.

[Iron Sage]

The key is pretty awesome, but remember it 'keys' off of melee casualties only. Alpha rush combats are pretty hard these days, which means your key probably won't be activated until turn two at the earliest, after which most of your reserves will have arrived already.

 

I'm not saying it's bad - it still strikes me as pretty good, and it's just super cool, bringing an awesome narrative element to the game with its mechanics. But I not sure how big an impact it will have on the effectiveness of warp talons in particular. I think the latter will mostly have to be good on their own merits. I'm still on the fence about them - that cost is pretty high. But I don't think prohibitively so.

 

I'm just excited to see so many fast attack options that seem worth considering. cheap bikes, affordable raptors, strong but pricey talons, the turkey, and even spawn as a viable option? Awesome.

 

Landraider migth be the best option there.

 

And yes, mate, very excited as well :lol: I bet even your pessimism is fading a tad now, eh? ^^

 

Anyone else notice Possessed and Warp Talons are daemons? With Mark of Tzeentch, you get 3+/4++ Marines. I was hoping Spawns would be daemons too. 3 wound toughness 5 beasts with a 4++ might be too much to ask for though.

 

Haha, true that! Spawn is very good in many builds now though, even without armour ;)

[Smurfalypse]

The key is pretty awesome, but remember it 'keys' off of melee casualties only. Alpha rush combats are pretty hard these days, which means your key probably won't be activated until turn two at the earliest, after which most of your reserves will have arrived already.

 

I'm not saying it's bad - it still strikes me as pretty good, and it's just super cool, bringing an awesome narrative element to the game with its mechanics. But I not sure how big an impact it will have on the effectiveness of warp talons in particular. I think the latter will mostly have to be good on their own merits. I'm still on the fence about them - that cost is pretty high. But I don't think prohibitively so.

 

I'm just excited to see so many fast attack options that seem worth considering. cheap bikes, affordable raptors, strong but pricey talons, the turkey, and even spawn as a viable option? Awesome.

 

Not much in there seems just bad, there are a few poor choices but there is a ton to choose from. Everything that hits me as "OMG wow" has a fair price on it, so you pay for your really good stuff.

 

I think the Talons are going to end up being to pricey for most people to want to pay for. You can literally almost half their price for Raptors, and Raptors get some upgrades to shoot vehicles and stuff.

[Sception]

And yes, mate, very excited as well :blush: I bet even your pessimism is fading a tad now, eh? ^^

 

What did I always say was the point of that pessimism? It was to get the disappointment out of the way early, and keep my expectations in check so that when the codex hit, I'd be ready to hit the ground running.

 

The things I'm not happy with about the new book or the new models? Those are still things. Sons and Possessed are still pretty terrible for their points cost, obligatory challenges still seems like a pain. The models that I thought looked meh I still think look meh, but I've already said my piece on them so no need to bother about it now, and it's still a shame the designers didn't find a way to get cult termies & HQs in there for the cult players, even if I'm not one of them.

 

But the good stuff is still great - the large number of viable choices in HQ, Troop (if you count some of the cult units), Fast, and Heavy, the wealth of build options both within most units and in the army itself, several really cool wargear items, etc. Hell, some of this I spoke highly of over the last several weeks as well, it's not my fault team optimism was more interested in arguing over the bits we disagreed on then sharing our excitement over the bits we were all looking forward to. It's not their fault, either, disagreements are just more interesting.