Excessus Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Well, with lots of information out on what is in the codex, Daemon Princes have had a bit of a price hike. A bit too far imho, since it's going to be hard to fit one of them in any list below 1750 points now. Personally though, I was thinking of having: Wings, Power Armour, MoT and The Black Mace. Sweet sweet 6-12 fleshbane attacks at I8 that devastates hordes close to him when in cc @ 265p Coming up as "interesting" is both the Burning Brand of Skalathrax for some marine killing, or the dimensional key for armies with lots of deep striking stuff... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Do they have Eternal Warrior? If not, they seem like a big fat points sink. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3193993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Cyanide Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Sadly no more eternal warrior! I think my princes will be reserved for boon table rolls... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Thanks for the info Danny! Haven't got my 'dex yet. What a load. Price hike and a nerf? <_< I guess I will start running a chaos daemon army with Chaos Marine allies. Then I can still take nasty DPs that won't be splattered by the first GK squad or libby they face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Do they have Eternal Warrior? If not, they seem like a big fat points sink. Yeah, because there are soooo many S10 non-template or blast ranged weapons out there... I think I've only faced one once, and that's broadsides...and those will be targets for my ectoplasm cannons, instakilling them on 2+, yes please... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Do they have Eternal Warrior? If not, they seem like a big fat points sink. Yeah, because there are soooo many S10 non-template or blast ranged weapons out there... I think I've only faced one once, and that's broadsides...and those will be targets for my ectoplasm cannons, instakilling them on 2+, yes please... Hehe, the guy haven`t read the codex yet, so forgive him the absurd whining <_< Obviously Princes should never be taken at 1500 and below, and thats very fluffy and damn nice to be honest. To use them at all, one must heap upgrades on them I suspect. I am certainly going to try fielding one in 2K battles :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Max price I have managed so far is 470p on one prince... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Max price I have managed so far is 470p on one prince... Hehe. A tad expensive that. I have actually been contemplating a Tzeentch prince with sigil, wings, armour, and that sexy flame thrower. Should probably make him a lv 1 psyker as well to get the primaris from Tzeentch. Torrent flamer and exploding blast sounds as if it could be fun. Obviously better with lv 3 psyk though, but its about those pesky points.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 One of my main enemies is Tau, actually, and he does cram in as many railguns as possible (and I am pretty sure ectoplasm doesn't have a 72" range). I may not have my dex yet, but am thinking about how I would counter something like a daemon prince- a nasty single model beatstick. I am thinking I hit it with a multiple-hammerhand buffed hammer, for example. Hey presto, no daemon. There are plenty of high-strength, ID-causing weapons out there, and it is not hard to target a single model with them, flying or not. And maybe I am whining, but that is because I feel affection for my current army and I hate being forced to drop units I enjoying playing because GW thinks our DPs were too strong . . . hold on, this must be how Draigowing players feel . . . empathy is such a foreign concept . . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 You'll have to see what other nasty things you can bring? Even with Eternal warrior, I don't hold much out for DP's staying alive with all the ap2 weapons out there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 whythre, aside from broadsides(which you can hide from) the rest of those weapons are melee ones, and with wings you can pretty much choose your opponent, and you don't have to assault draigo, and you don't even have to make a melee-focused DP. Tool him up as a psyker and the flamer, then fly him around and burn things to a crisp with that 360degree LoS that FMCs enjoy. Better still, perhaps a nurgle prince, with awesome powers and a nice coversave as well! We don't need problems, we need solutions! ;) ...besides, what boards are you playing on where there is 72" between units? Did you deploy wrongly? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Do they have Eternal Warrior? If not, they seem like a big fat points sink. Yeah, because there are soooo many S10 non-template or blast ranged weapons out there... I think I've only faced one once, and that's broadsides...and those will be targets for my ectoplasm cannons, instakilling them on 2+, yes please... The problem is not only S10 weapons (for the records Dreads and DK have S10 in CC) but also weapons/attacks that inflict Instant Death and there are few of them around the Galaxy, including force weapons. So the fact our expensive DP can be killed by force weapons and Dreads/MCs is indeed a reason of concern. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 One of my main enemies is Tau, actually, and he does cram in as many railguns as possible (and I am pretty sure ectoplasm doesn't have a 72" range). I may not have my dex yet, but am thinking about how I would counter something like a daemon prince- a nasty single model beatstick. I am thinking I hit it with a multiple-hammerhand buffed hammer, for example. Hey presto, no daemon. There are plenty of high-strength, ID-causing weapons out there, and it is not hard to target a single model with them, flying or not. And maybe I am whining, but that is because I feel affection for my current army and I hate being forced to drop units I enjoying playing because GW thinks our DPs were too strong . . . hold on, this must be how Draigowing players feel . . . empathy is such a foreign concept . . . *Nods* You ought to consider that different units play differently against different codices though. As for dropping it, I think you definatly should drop it when playing below 2K points. At 2K and above, they might indeed be quite viable though. But I can tell you right now, that the DP is not at all useless. Just very expensive. Even though I personally have a flying Tzeentchian DP, I like this change. For me, it was always silly to see the Twin-DP lists in 1500 points battles. A daemon prince should really be something special, and not really something spammable like a common chaos marine unit. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 *sigh* I was aiming for this to be a nice and fun thread where people was posting their daemon prince builds, and I only get whiners in here... I know dreads and DKs have S10, you don't have to remind me...how often do I see those? Not that much. Force weapons sure, they get a shot at him, after he has hit them with his 6-12 AP2 attacks that wound on 2+. He's I8 remember? He hits even before those pesky halberds, and definitely before a DK, or dread... Wings man, wings! FMCs aren't really that static, choose your opponents on the field of battle, if you let the enemy choose what units he wants in combat with it, well, then there is room for improvement... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Well I know my Prince will have wings. It's based on a Balrog model after all. Other than that...I'm not sure. I am hoping for a ranged attack that doesn't require a Psychic test. I don't want to assist in wounding the Prince before he gets into combat. I do have a strategy all worked out. Fly close to target unit. Next turn change to Jump- and assault said unit. Minimise risk to Prince, maximise effectiveness. All the while my other stuff will be distracting anything that can threaten the Super-Fast-Balrog-Prince. I also might get a Heldrake to run...because two flying things are 3 times as effective as one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Dave Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 While I'm certainly excited for a Typhus lead army as a Death Guard player, I'll still bring out the chubby ol' DP here and there. Most games I play are 1750-1850 anyway, so that's enough points to use one. He'll likely run MoN, wings, Power Armor, and one Psyker level to rain Nurgle's Rot down on his victims, and continue doing so while in melee! I can't see that guy leaving many behind in swarm units, or smaller MEQ units after a round of combat, and he can just fly overhead to soften up tougher squads (with help from the rest of the army, of course) if need be. But a 3+ cover save on a Dive with no ill effects on hitting with Nurgle's Rot next turn? That's pretty derned sweet if you ask me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I'll be going MoK, that blinding axe daemon weapon thingy, wings and power armor. That'll make him quite beastly. Just fly him around until he finds some nice juicy targets. All the while the rest of the army is advancing and pounding the crap outta the enemy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Max price I have managed so far is 470p on one prince... Hehe. A tad expensive that. I have actually been contemplating a Tzeentch prince with sigil, wings, armour, and that sexy flame thrower. Should probably make him a lv 1 psyker as well to get the primaris from Tzeentch. Torrent flamer and exploding blast sounds as if it could be fun. Obviously better with lv 3 psyk though, but its about those pesky points.. Sadly, Sigil of Corruption is from Special Issue Wargear. The Prince can only take from Chaos Rewards and Artefacts. 3+/5++ is the best a prince can do before boons. I'm going to try a master psyker. Prince of Tzeentch, Mastery Level 3, Power Armor, Gift of Mutation, Scrolls of Magnus, Spell Familiar. Hope to roll a boon to help me survive, a +1 Toughness, Increased Save, Feel No Pain, Eternal Warrior, or Re-Roll Save would help. Try and get Boon of Mutation on the Tzeentch powers and the D3 Toughness Biomancy Power. If you can target yourself with Boon of Mutation, that's a plus. You buff yourself each turn and gain an additional psychic power. With a high toughness, the Str 4 Boon hit shouldn't hurt. And the Scrolls Str 3 hit shouldn't wound either. If you can alo get the life leechesque power that is good. This could become a rolfstomping monster. But, all for more than a Landraider. . . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Max price I have managed so far is 470p on one prince... Hehe. A tad expensive that. I have actually been contemplating a Tzeentch prince with sigil, wings, armour, and that sexy flame thrower. Should probably make him a lv 1 psyker as well to get the primaris from Tzeentch. Torrent flamer and exploding blast sounds as if it could be fun. Obviously better with lv 3 psyk though, but its about those pesky points.. Sadly, Sigil of Corruption is from Special Issue Wargear. The Prince can only take from Chaos Rewards and Artefacts. 3+/5++ is the best a prince can do before boons. I'm going to try a master psyker. Prince of Tzeentch, Mastery Level 3, Power Armor, Gift of Mutation, Scrolls of Magnus, Spell Familiar. Hope to roll a boon to help me survive, a +1 Toughness, Increased Save, Feel No Pain, Eternal Warrior, or Re-Roll Save would help. Try and get Boon of Mutation on the Tzeentch powers and the D3 Toughness Biomancy Power. If you can target yourself with Boon of Mutation, that's a plus. You buff yourself each turn and gain an additional psychic power. With a high toughness, the Str 4 Boon hit shouldn't hurt. And the Scrolls Str 3 hit shouldn't wound either. If you can alo get the life leechesque power that is good. This could become a rolfstomping monster. But, all for more than a Landraider. . . . Urk! You are correct! The thought was warm, fuzzy and cozy as long as it lasted though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Max price I have managed so far is 470p on one prince... Hehe. A tad expensive that. I have actually been contemplating a Tzeentch prince with sigil, wings, armour, and that sexy flame thrower. Should probably make him a lv 1 psyker as well to get the primaris from Tzeentch. Torrent flamer and exploding blast sounds as if it could be fun. Obviously better with lv 3 psyk though, but its about those pesky points.. Sadly, Sigil of Corruption is from Special Issue Wargear. The Prince can only take from Chaos Rewards and Artefacts. 3+/5++ is the best a prince can do before boons. I'm going to try a master psyker. Prince of Tzeentch, Mastery Level 3, Power Armor, Gift of Mutation, Scrolls of Magnus, Spell Familiar. Hope to roll a boon to help me survive, a +1 Toughness, Increased Save, Feel No Pain, Eternal Warrior, or Re-Roll Save would help. Try and get Boon of Mutation on the Tzeentch powers and the D3 Toughness Biomancy Power. If you can target yourself with Boon of Mutation, that's a plus. You buff yourself each turn and gain an additional psychic power. With a high toughness, the Str 4 Boon hit shouldn't hurt. And the Scrolls Str 3 hit shouldn't wound either. If you can alo get the life leechesque power that is good. This could become a rolfstomping monster. But, all for more than a Landraider. . . . I like that idea a lot, very outside the box and well done :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Indeed. I envy him his clarity. Personally I am too tired. This has been a rather mad night for me (no work today, thank the dark gods), as its soon 5am here. Damn evil tome, keeping me awake and ruining my day off :P Edit: This reminds me that its time to wave and bid you fellow humans good night... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The high cost and limited toughness & saves, even more than the lack of eternal warrior, has me a bit skeptical at this point, and my Prince will probably be held in reserve for boon rolls. What are the rules for equipping such free princes? Anything you could normally give them? Nothing at all? do they still need a mark? Can they have wings? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 They get power armor, and the mark they had before (if any). I am with Malisteen- after reviewing the codex, C:CSM daemon princes are too much of a gamble, amazing statline notwithstanding. This has clinched it. Any DPs I use will be allies from codex daemons. The other drawback, and this was noted in another thread, was that DPs don't unlock any elites, like a marked lord does. This is important for my Death Guard, or any other cult armies. I could pick up a marked lord too, but in order to kit him out properly, it is a huge point investment; then I can't really afford the DP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve shields Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 so i think my princes may only see apoc battle as they took a huge price hike and can only be t5 unless you get that biomancy roll and get lucky. thats why i only ever fielded nurlge princes in fifth was t5 things just vaporize when met with resistance. could do the flying and harassing but i see princes as more of a stab you in the face build. time will tell i suppose. but here is what i will run on my nurgle princes in apoc prince MoN Wings Power armour lv 2 sorc (one for nurgle one for biomancy) and then one of each demon weapons i can bring (i have 7 nurgle princes haha) hmm what would i try to do for a competitive one though? perhaps MoN wings flamer of awesome for 230. actually idk that sound really expensive to throw one flamer a turn what would other people use for say a 2k tournament Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Well I know my Prince will have wings. I'm pulling the wings off the one I already have built so I can remodel it, but this time I'm adding magnets. They're so expensive now that I'm not sure what I might have to give up in order to squeeze one in. Sure they should be for 1500 or greater, but I can't find many <1500 games anymore, sadly. The tournaments around here are at 1500 or 1750, so that's what I end up having to build against. I'm looking forward to figuring out all this chaos artifact stuff, though! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262233-daemon-princes/#findComment-3194459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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