minigun762 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I wanted to share my thoughts on how the new codex has changed my army building mindset. First and foremost, we have stronger options in all FOC categories, so I no longer field limited to HQ, troops and heavy. I fully intend to field at least one unit from each category in my armies from now on and that's refreshing. I also intend to buck the trend of spamming copycat units just because they are the flavor of the month. I'm limiting myself to 2 of any particular unit and when possible I'd like to try for no duplicate units. Chaos should feel more unique, more individual and I'll try to capture that better. I think that both myself and my opponent will have more fun if the armies aren't copy & paste jobs off the internet so I'm going to continue to use a balanced, all comers list that doesn't rely on any particular novel rule, gear or unit. I'd rather have a close defeat than a blowout victory. Anyway, that's my rambling. Has the new codex changed how you're going to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Being new to chaos, I would like to read the opinions from the veterans about the new meta. Seems like the old plaguemarine spam with 2 DPs is gone for good - so I would like to know what are the strongest points now, so I can have a better starting point for my army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I wanted to share my thoughts on how the new codex has changed my army building mindset. First and foremost, we have stronger options in all FOC categories, so I no longer field limited to HQ, troops and heavy. I fully intend to field at least one unit from each category in my armies from now on and that's refreshing. I also intend to buck the trend of spamming copycat units just because they are the flavor of the month. I'm limiting myself to 2 of any particular unit and when possible I'd like to try for no duplicate units. Chaos should feel more unique, more individual and I'll try to capture that better. I think that both myself and my opponent will have more fun if the armies aren't copy & paste jobs off the internet so I'm going to continue to use a balanced, all comers list that doesn't rely on any particular novel rule, gear or unit. I'd rather have a close defeat than a blowout victory. Anyway, that's my rambling. Has the new codex changed how you're going to play? I have had the exact same thoughts. It feels rather wonderful and even wondrous (always thought the codex would be an improvement, but this is just not an improvement but a total renovation from slum to luxury ^^ ) to be honest. Like...ALL of the FA choices are viable. How did this happen??? Our elite slots, with the exception of Possessed, which is underwhelming, and possibly the mutilators, are gold.. Troops? Way better. Way more customizable, and it was a very pleasant surprise that the cultists can swap around weapons and take marks. HQ? They all seem to rock in their own way. I am frankly amazed and stunned, and I was one of the "positive thinkers" here the last weeks as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I already tried to field at least one unit from each category (more in troops, of course), but typically ran out of points before having to make myself take something from fast. In the new book, I'll be going for a bunch of cultists (or I will once they're available as an option) in troops to bring down my points overhead so I can afford to fit some of those nice, cheap bikes in to my default list. I'm one of those "one of everything" kinds of collectors, though, so once I've got the painting train moving again I'll be shaking it up on a game to game basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 What feels bossy to me : Cultists Abaddon Typhus Huron Talons Warpsmith Cheap Lord Mystical magical key Havocs What feels pretty underpowered to a point that it's shameful : Terminators Possessed Useless (yet cheap) Hellbrute Chosen, sorta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What feels bossy to me :Cultists Abaddon Typhus Huron Talons Warpsmith Cheap Lord Mystical magical key Havocs What feels pretty underpowered to a point that it's shameful : Terminators Possessed Useless (yet cheap) Hellbrute Chosen, sorta Terminators are just fine IMO. Not overpowered, but not underpowered either. Possessed, well I agree there, and I am sad to do so as well. They are clearly far more usable and better than before, but its not enough to make them good when they lack grenades. Chosen are actually better now, even without infiltrate, at least in certain builds. I would use them only in lists where I have Ahriman or Huron or "counts as" equalents Helbrute is okay. Not fantastic, but okay. Its a decent walker, and not that expensive. In some builds I think it can do pretty well for its cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What feels bossy to me :Cultists Abaddon Typhus Huron Talons Warpsmith Cheap Lord Mystical magical key Havocs What feels pretty underpowered to a point that it's shameful : Terminators Possessed Useless (yet cheap) Hellbrute Chosen, sorta Terminators are just fine IMO. Not overpowered, but not underpowered either. Possessed, well I agree there, and I am sad to do so as well. They are clearly far more usable and better than before, but its not enough to make them good when they lack grenades. Chosen are actually better now, even without infiltrate, at least in certain builds. I would use them only in lists where I have Ahriman or Huron or "counts as" equalents Helbrute is okay. Not fantastic, but okay. Its a decent walker, and not that expensive. In some builds I think it can do pretty well for its cost. Ironically as someone who used them A LOT in the previous codex, I find them far worse off now. Before we could at least roll up rending, power weapons, or FnP and feel like you were getting some points back on em. But now, zero ways to handle vehicles, no assault grenades, very very lackluster chart to roll on, only the Champ can get the new table roll. Nothing really changed except that they lost the few good things they could have, very odd to me... God my friends used to hate it when I would roll up FnP on my Possessed (Cause i always ran them in squads of 12-20 depending on points). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What feels bossy to me :Cultists Abaddon Typhus Huron Talons Warpsmith Cheap Lord Mystical magical key Havocs What feels pretty underpowered to a point that it's shameful : Terminators Possessed Useless (yet cheap) Hellbrute Chosen, sorta Terminators are just fine IMO. Not overpowered, but not underpowered either. Possessed, well I agree there, and I am sad to do so as well. They are clearly far more usable and better than before, but its not enough to make them good when they lack grenades. Chosen are actually better now, even without infiltrate, at least in certain builds. I would use them only in lists where I have Ahriman or Huron or "counts as" equalents Helbrute is okay. Not fantastic, but okay. Its a decent walker, and not that expensive. In some builds I think it can do pretty well for its cost. Ironically as someone who used them A LOT in the previous codex, I find them far worse off now. Before we could at least roll up rending, power weapons, or FnP and feel like you were getting some points back on em. But now, zero ways to handle vehicles, no assault grenades, very very lackluster chart to roll on, only the Champ can get the new table roll. Nothing really changed except that they lost the few good things they could have, very odd to me... God my friends used to hate it when I would roll up FnP on my Possessed (Cause i always ran them in squads of 12-20 depending on points). Right, and fair enough, as I am very willing to bow to your authority on the Possessed. Its interesting that they can have +4 invul though, but sure, doesnt help make them good. Still, Fleet can have its uses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What feels bossy to me :Cultists Abaddon Typhus Huron Talons Warpsmith Cheap Lord Mystical magical key Havocs What feels pretty underpowered to a point that it's shameful : Terminators Possessed Useless (yet cheap) Hellbrute Chosen, sorta Terminators are just fine IMO. Not overpowered, but not underpowered either. Possessed, well I agree there, and I am sad to do so as well. They are clearly far more usable and better than before, but its not enough to make them good when they lack grenades. Chosen are actually better now, even without infiltrate, at least in certain builds. I would use them only in lists where I have Ahriman or Huron or "counts as" equalents Helbrute is okay. Not fantastic, but okay. Its a decent walker, and not that expensive. In some builds I think it can do pretty well for its cost. Ironically as someone who used them A LOT in the previous codex, I find them far worse off now. Before we could at least roll up rending, power weapons, or FnP and feel like you were getting some points back on em. But now, zero ways to handle vehicles, no assault grenades, very very lackluster chart to roll on, only the Champ can get the new table roll. Nothing really changed except that they lost the few good things they could have, very odd to me... God my friends used to hate it when I would roll up FnP on my Possessed (Cause i always ran them in squads of 12-20 depending on points). Right, and fair enough, as I am very willing to bow to your authority on the Possessed. Its interesting that they can have +4 invul though, but sure, doesnt help make them good. Still, Fleet can have its uses lol literally, IF they had assault grenades I would 100% say "yeah not great, but they can sure as hell roll up on some blob squads and just end them immediately". Which would outright make them useable if not good since we all will be seeing blob squads everywhere in 6th ed. But because of the huge amount of terrain on the boards now in 6th, it is really easy to put your blob in cover and then the poor possessed eat all that overwatch fire + get to go at initiative 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What feels bossy to me :Cultists Abaddon Typhus Huron Talons Warpsmith Cheap Lord Mystical magical key Havocs What feels pretty underpowered to a point that it's shameful : Terminators Possessed Useless (yet cheap) Hellbrute Chosen, sorta Terminators are just fine IMO. Not overpowered, but not underpowered either. Possessed, well I agree there, and I am sad to do so as well. They are clearly far more usable and better than before, but its not enough to make them good when they lack grenades. Chosen are actually better now, even without infiltrate, at least in certain builds. I would use them only in lists where I have Ahriman or Huron or "counts as" equalents Helbrute is okay. Not fantastic, but okay. Its a decent walker, and not that expensive. In some builds I think it can do pretty well for its cost. Ironically as someone who used them A LOT in the previous codex, I find them far worse off now. Before we could at least roll up rending, power weapons, or FnP and feel like you were getting some points back on em. But now, zero ways to handle vehicles, no assault grenades, very very lackluster chart to roll on, only the Champ can get the new table roll. Nothing really changed except that they lost the few good things they could have, very odd to me... God my friends used to hate it when I would roll up FnP on my Possessed (Cause i always ran them in squads of 12-20 depending on points). Right, and fair enough, as I am very willing to bow to your authority on the Possessed. Its interesting that they can have +4 invul though, but sure, doesnt help make them good. Still, Fleet can have its uses lol literally, IF they had assault grenades I would 100% say "yeah not great, but they can sure as hell roll up on some blob squads and just end them immediately". Which would outright make them useable if not good since we all will be seeing blob squads everywhere in 6th ed. But because of the huge amount of terrain on the boards now in 6th, it is really easy to put your blob in cover and then the poor possessed eat all that overwatch fire + get to go at initiative 1. hehe, at least this codex seems to be full of anti-Blob weaponry in general :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I don't see how the possessed don't have tools against vehicles nowadays smurf. Most vehicles have 3 HP so that means 3 glances and they are dead, and with the possesseds S5 and 3A on the charge(or 4, depending on roll), that vehicle is not going to keep rolling/shooting for long. Walkers are a problem, but they have been a problem for possessed always! Nowadays we get to buy two rolls on the boon table at least, and we can perhaps get something useful! In other news, the codex seems to be a lot more fun to play with than the old one, that's for sure! I don't know where we will end up in the meta yet, but I am loving it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I don't see how the possessed don't have tools against vehicles nowadays smurf. Most vehicles have 3 HP so that means 3 glances and they are dead, and with the possesseds S5 and 3A on the charge(or 4, depending on roll), that vehicle is not going to keep rolling/shooting for long. Walkers are a problem, but they have been a problem for possessed always! Nowadays we get to buy two rolls on the boon table at least, and we can perhaps get something useful! In other news, the codex seems to be a lot more fun to play with than the old one, that's for sure! I don't know where we will end up in the meta yet, but I am loving it! Yeah more talking about Land Raiders and Walkers, a Walker locks them up and kills off your 300 point unit with no hope of getting out or killing it. They were a problem last edition except if you had furious charge or rending (1/3rd chance when the game started). The main issue is going at initiative 1 vs an opponent in cover (which SHOULD be most people you assault), that is unacceptable for a unit that is obviously a designated light infantry killer. I will try them out, lord knows i have enough of them painted up to not use them. But I know my possessed, and these are bad times :D Please do not take me as bitching, I am really digging the rest of this Codex. It is literally them and the Daemon Prince that MUST take a "mark" from a god (I know it isn't technically a mark, but it basically is). Nowadays we get to buy two rolls on the boon table at least, and we can perhaps get something useful! ONLY the Champion can get the two rolls, not so useful for 20 points in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I've never been spam happy with my lists. That said, I'm approaching this with some frugality in mind. I will field as much of what I have in my chaos inventory to limit purchases of new things. This may encourage light spamming. Two defilers for example. Which should not be an issue as they seem less efficient than other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I've never been spam happy with my lists. That said, I'm approaching this with some frugality in mind. I will field as much of what I have in my chaos inventory to limit purchases of new things. This may encourage light spamming. Two defilers for example. Which should not be an issue as they seem less efficient than other options. The Defilers are absolutely brilliant in this Codex, just wonderful. Daemon USR, Will Not Die, battle cannon, can take the power scourge, friggin win man. This thing is going to be a priority target for an opponent, with what it does in 6th ed. it has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I don't see how the possessed don't have tools against vehicles nowadays smurf. Most vehicles have 3 HP so that means 3 glances and they are dead, and with the possesseds S5 and 3A on the charge(or 4, depending on roll), that vehicle is not going to keep rolling/shooting for long. Walkers are a problem, but they have been a problem for possessed always! Nowadays we get to buy two rolls on the boon table at least, and we can perhaps get something useful! In other news, the codex seems to be a lot more fun to play with than the old one, that's for sure! I don't know where we will end up in the meta yet, but I am loving it! Yeah more talking about Land Raiders and Walkers, a Walker locks them up and kills off your 300 point unit with no hope of getting out or killing it. They were a problem last edition except if you had furious charge or rending (1/3rd chance when the game started). The main issue is going at initiative 1 vs an opponent in cover (which SHOULD be most people you assault), that is unacceptable for a unit that is obviously a designated light infantry killer. I will try them out, lord knows i have enough of them painted up to not use them. But I know my possessed, and these are bad times :D Please do not take me as bitching, I am really digging the rest of this Codex. It is literally them and the Daemon Prince that MUST take a "mark" from a god (I know it isn't technically a mark, but it basically is). Nowadays we get to buy two rolls on the boon table at least, and we can perhaps get something useful! ONLY the Champion can get the two rolls, not so useful for 20 points in my opinion. Well, infantry in general isn't that hot against walkers and LRs. I can't think of any regular infantry squad that will reliably take down a LR in melee, apart from termies that is. But we were comparing to the last codex, were we not? In that comparison there would be no LRs or walkers either, because they sucked bigtime against them last edition too. I would even say that they have a better chance against walkers in this edition because of the hull points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 My best guess is that the new meta will involve a dark apostle and blob squads or daemon allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Ok so no nades on Possesd is a real bummer. but the thing that is even worse for me is that Defilers can't have 4 CCW for free anymore!!! Before you could exchange the heavyflamer for a CCW for free, and the Autocanon for a CCW for free. Now the Defiler pirce is 195pts(yeah i know it takes in value the Deamon,Deamonforge,IWND rules, but still...), and if i want to have 4 CCW's like i love to play them i must take a Scourge and have a point hike at 220? its the Price of a damn LR!!!(wich also sucks that you don't have any other weapons layout...) This is way too much..., i could squeesh 2 Defilers in 2kpts lists and be happy with it, but now even at a base price of 195, its way too much... *Sigh* i think i have no choice then using the Maulerfiend/Forgefiend to compensate..., bye, bye artillery plates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Though, the scourge will reduce the enemys Ws, meaning that they will not be hitting on 3+ for the most part...and perhaps even deffy will hit on 3+ himself!!! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Maybe not that cost efficient as it makes the rhinos kind of expensive for their toughness, but I wonder as to the viabillity of fielding a fully mechanized force with destroyer blades and dirge casters... Being new to chaos, I would like to read the opinions from the veterans about the new meta. Seems like the old plaguemarine spam with 2 DPs is gone for good - so I would like to know what are the strongest points now, so I can have a better starting point for my army. We don`t really know yet, though its obvious that Plague Marines will be the "easy-mode" unit in this edition as well, so you`ll do no wrong if you buy plagues (do remember a lord) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 My zerks are going to be collecting dust alongside my possessed, unfortunately, at least for my Word Bearers. Using the zerks and their new improved chainaxes may be just the motivation I needed to do a small World Eater-esque force. Sadly my Dark Apostle conversion that I did will be collecting dust, as they got hosed by not having access to TDA. But I agree that the new dex opens the FOC up quite a bit. They only section of the FoC I won't be using is the Fast Attack, but that's only because I ran out of points in my 2k list. I am really liking the daemon engines and had to go with one of each, as well as a bunch of cultists for fodder. I am finding myself going completely undivided, which to some isn't strange, but I had a looser philosophy to the Word Bearers than some. All in all I think once we get past the shock we will all be pretty happy with what we can do. I am looking forward to it. Right now my list is looking something like this: Dark Apostle with a retinue of Chosen, with a Land Raider Coryphaeus (Lord) in TDA with a Terminator retinue Hellbrute 2 CSM squads with Rhinos Cultists Forgefiend Maulerfiend Probably do some fine tuning but this is likely to be pretty much it... ~BtW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I will probably use the cult squads a lot less than I have. I started off using Berserkers a lot, but throughout 5th our assault survivability went steadily downhill. Then I moved to regular troops and had mixed results with that, so I switched to small Plague Marine squads supported by vehicles. That worked out great or terrible, depending on a lot of random variables. By the end of our current codex I was foot slogging regular troops to bring rapid fire and plasma spam onto enemies while hoping that my daemon princes could take out my opponents hard units. I really have no idea what's going to happen with this codex. My strategy, such as it is, will probably lean toward stripped down foot slogging troops supported by walkers/flyer and one really tooled up HQ/elite retinue combination. And we'll see how that goes and I'll get back to y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I have to say I'm definitely liking that dirge casters are negating Overwatch within 6 inches of the vehicle they are on. Must have in my book, especially on a LR. Also thinking that, for the price, the Warpflame Gargoyles might be fun. Gonna at least give them a go and see how I like it. Still reading through. Something I found odd is that the Icon of Vengeance would be an option on Possessed for 5 points...they already have fearless so why pay 5 points to carry a cool looking stick around??? Only thing I wish we had easier access to is FNP in Undivided type lists.. So far, like I said I am impressed. ~BtW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 First and foremost, we have stronger options in all FOC categories, so I no longer field limited to HQ, troops and heavy. I fully intend to field at least one unit from each category in my armies from now on and that's refreshing. how many points to you play in normal games in 6th minigun ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Can't wait to read the Jeske's assessment of the new units, options and changes.... ~BtW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Can't wait to read the Jeske's assessment of the new units, options and changes.... ~BtW Don't worry, I'm sure it will be mostly negative... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.