Rhinos and new Chaos

[Killax]

Won't use them, yet. Had plans to but not anymore :blink:

 

Atm I think the mechlist can be great but only if focused on a lot of walkers + preds/vindi's/flyers.

 

Cheers,

[KingDeath]

Rhinos are still dirt cheap, mobile bunkers with decent firepower ( for their cost ). Unless you are playing a cc focused army, there are few reasons not to take them.

[minigun762]

Rhinos are still dirt cheap, mobile bunkers with decent firepower ( for their cost ). Unless you are playing a cc focused army, there are few reasons not to take them.

 

On average the reason not to take them is adding +2 bodies to the squad.

[Payce]

It's kinda funny, though... every thread about every unit in the new codex is basically "Ooooh I wanna try this" and "Ooooh I wanna try that"... and then The Jeske replies and everything changes to "NO JESKE! YOU ARE WRONG!" :)

 

I personally find Jeske's posts extremely interesting, posting from the cutting edge meta point of view is something that balances out all the lore-based and "I own these models so will run these models" fairly well. Keep it up mate, the hardcore tournament stuff is largely appreciated by me, at least - learning how I theoretically "should" do it to optimize helps a lot when points-pinching for that last cool unit or upgrade that just won't fit in a list. I urge everyone as well to see the value of what Jeske posts for what it is, and not as an attack on your personal opinion or playstyle. Tournament and meta play is as much as part of this game as narrative battles and beautiful conversions :)

 

On topic, I kinda wanna field an all-foot Iron Warriors-force, with a Defiler, a Fiend (still undecided on which is the cooler one of Forge and Mauler), couple of Obliterators, maybe a Helbrute and then just a ton of bodies. Cultist blobs to shield my guys, some shooty, stripped-to-the-core-guys with Plasmaguns, a few Ultragrit units... basically, anyway I can fit in 5-6 troops choices on foot. I feel this approach is far superior to Rhinos at the moment, with all the cover going around, and the number of game points that can be earned simply by having stuff alive, I'ev adopted the "the more the merrier"-approach myself. And that, alas, leaves little room for Rhinos in my book.

 

I do understand people that take them, though. I'm sure our new friends, the Forgefiends, enjoys a good Rhino too ;)

[KingDeath]

Rhinos are still dirt cheap, mobile bunkers with decent firepower ( for their cost ). Unless you are playing a cc focused army, there are few reasons not to take them.

 

On average the reason not to take them is adding +2 bodies to the squad.

 

Imo immunity to small arms and forcing your opponent to spread his at weapons is of far greater value than two extra bodies.

[Purge]

Haven't played a 6th edition game yet, but I see the Rhinos as being better then before as the shaken results are less likely and being distroyed in round 2 more likely. I know that sounds odd. but I like the 3 rhinos and a land raider setup all with plague marines. The goal is to drive directly where you want to go and then get out and start causing havok. Having a rhino left in round 5 helps to have the last couple guys run off and contest an objective to pull out the tie if things don't go as planed.

Oh and the blowing up part? I love it when someone like Ig get happy that they just destroyed the rhino and then get an explodes result just to take out thier troops leaving all of mine standing where the rhino was and now free to run off to the next group.

[Smurfalypse]

Exactly. I don't see how "everything is changing" with the squads...it's pretty much the same as before but with cooler options.

 

My battlefield experience has told me that rhinos are still a godsend in all the scenarios.

 

I think Jeske is referring to 6th edition changing things. People are leaning more and more on large units of ground pounders, less and less on smaller elite units in a transport.

 

I however still think the Rhino has a place and will still be using two in my 1500+ lists. Though I will have a plethora of Cultists slogging it up the board.

[zyl-]

I also like Jeske's posts. Sometimes, though, they are from a point of view that I can't really understand.

[Iron Sage]

It's kinda funny, though... every thread about every unit in the new codex is basically "Ooooh I wanna try this" and "Ooooh I wanna try that"... and then The Jeske replies and everything changes to "NO JESKE! YOU ARE WRONG!" :P

 

I personally find Jeske's posts extremely interesting, posting from the cutting edge meta point of view is something that balances out all the lore-based and "I own these models so will run these models" fairly well. Keep it up mate, the hardcore tournament stuff is largely appreciated by me, at least - learning how I theoretically "should" do it to optimize helps a lot when points-pinching for that last cool unit or upgrade that just won't fit in a list. I urge everyone as well to see the value of what Jeske posts for what it is, and not as an attack on your personal opinion or playstyle. Tournament and meta play is as much as part of this game as narrative battles and beautiful conversions :P

 

On topic, I kinda wanna field an all-foot Iron Warriors-force, with a Defiler, a Fiend (still undecided on which is the cooler one of Forge and Mauler), couple of Obliterators, maybe a Helbrute and then just a ton of bodies. Cultist blobs to shield my guys, some shooty, stripped-to-the-core-guys with Plasmaguns, a few Ultragrit units... basically, anyway I can fit in 5-6 troops choices on foot. I feel this approach is far superior to Rhinos at the moment, with all the cover going around, and the number of game points that can be earned simply by having stuff alive, I'ev adopted the "the more the merrier"-approach myself. And that, alas, leaves little room for Rhinos in my book.

 

I do understand people that take them, though. I'm sure our new friends, the Forgefiends, enjoys a good Rhino too ;)

 

Agree completly, and I have spent a few posts now saying the exact same regarding jeske :)

 

I have lurked on this forum for very many years. I always read what he wrote. As I have earlier said, I would not field the lists he advocates, but it has in the past helped me gain a better understanding, of which I am grateful.

[Rain]

Rhinos have not changed. They still do what they did before. They will get your mid-ranged dakka across the board and then they go away in turn 2 or 3. They are a hindrance for your CC troops (unless you plan on not assaulting until turn 3 at the earliest). If you expect anything more from them than a 35 point pavise, you may be a little disappointed in their performance.

 

They are tools and when used correctly, they perform well.

 

Or you deploy your squads in rhinos and then disembark first turn and use the rhino as a moving LoS blocker running with the squad. This way you can still assault turn 2 if you think you can pull it off, or you can keep the squad inside for the first turn move if you don't think you'd make it anyway. Plus you can stick a dirge caster on that will prevent overwatch and force your opponent to actually bother blowing up the metal box which will take shooting away from your heavy infantry which tends to be weak to the same kind of thing as rhinos. Hell, maybe even throw on destroyer blades for extra trolling. Maybe it's not super points efficient but it could potentially be hilarious. Just a thought.

[minigun762]

Rhinos are still dirt cheap, mobile bunkers with decent firepower ( for their cost ). Unless you are playing a cc focused army, there are few reasons not to take them.

 

On average the reason not to take them is adding +2 bodies to the squad.

 

Imo immunity to small arms and forcing your opponent to spread his at weapons is of far greater value than two extra bodies.

 

It's a good reason. The added combi bolter helps negate any small arms difference too.

[d@n]

csm have alot of good expensive midfield units, so taking rhinos to get them there isnt a bad idea. i havent read the new codex but if a rhino still has the option for an havoc launcher at least it still has a use once the unit has disembarked, unlike loyalist transport were you either have a rhino not doing much or a razorback that makes the unit in it to small to be of much use, in a chaos army both the transport and the unit can still be dangerous. one havoc launcher by itself isnt threatening but 4-5+ can do alot of damage, even more so if you have 2 plasma guns ect fire out of the top hatch.

[Lepaca]

My plan is to field Huron or Ahriman (or get lucky on the Warlord table) to infiltrate some elite squads in their rhinos behind enemy lines. In my experiences, it's much easier to hide a Rhino than hide a full 10-man squad ;)

 

Which won't work because you can only infiltrate infantry units.

 

Nope, just checked the wording it actually works. OMG infiltrating Land Raiders. :P

 

Also, the jeske knows his stuff. If he says something is good/bad I tend to concur.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

Am I missing something/getting something wrong?

 

Don't rhinos have an additional use in:

 

Squad is on foot - move forward 6 (just because)

Rhino moves 6 alongside

Squad fires

Rhino goes flat out and shields them from retaliatory strikes?

 

That way you get the whole squad's firepower and a mobile shield in the form of the rhino.

 

Sure, it's AV11 and 3 HP - but if Anti-tank guns are hitting your Rhino they aren't hitting Preds/Fiends/Bikes etc OR the troops who are on foot.

 

I mean, that's what I've seen Rhino's used for most in this edition - and it's far better (in my opinion) than two extra bodies.

 

It also gives you the option to get in the Rhino if needs be - depending on what list you fight against.

 

I do agree with the Jeske's tactical analysis (isn't it funny how this thread is becoming a discussion of one person, rather than the topic? :P ) in most situations, but everyone seems to have overlooked this use of transport vehicles.

 

Is there some reason it's not feasible? I know the recent FAQ said transports can't go flat-out if their contents disembark, but if the troops are already on the ground that's not an issue.

 

Incidentally, this just springs to mind because it's how I managed to beat a recent Space Wolf opponent in the 'mid-range game' (which Wolves generally excel at) when he'd gone foot heavy and I had a hybrid approach.

 

Thoughts?

[Vhalyar]

Thoughts?

You are entirely correct and it's amusing to see how people dismiss the humble rhino so casually.

It's mobile cover, extra firepower, and further target saturation at a low cost.

[Dallas Drake]

Thoughts?

You are entirely correct and it's amusing to see how people dismiss the humble rhino so casually.

It's mobile cover, extra firepower, and further target saturation at a low cost.

 

I think the only issue is with assault units like Berzerkers or melee Chosen, for them the Cultist screen vs Rhino decision becomes a bit more of a closer issue...

 

Dallas

[Seahawk]

For me it's a simple comparison:

 

- Fast vs Slow

- Not Getting Shot vs Getting Shot

 

Rhino wins and is win, even full of berzerkers or other choppy dudes. Can't assault the turn you get out? It's called planning ahead.

[Dallas Drake]

Can't assault the turn you get out? It's called planning ahead.

 

Or getting your unit shot to crap ;) only joking but I play BA too & honestly Rhinos for assault units do suck, you're probably a much better tactician than me but I couldn't get use out of my DC using a Rhino and honestly you don't often see DC running in Rhinos.

 

I agree that Rhinos are good, they do their job irrespective of HPs etc. However, I plan on running Cultists (2x30) & I just can't see Rhino units & Cultists working too well together in my head. By running the two I'm afraid of offering my opponent an opportunity of targets (i.e. Lasguns at the Cultists & Lascannons at the Rhinos)....

 

Dallas

[Seahawk]

Don't get out on the wrong side of the rhino. ;)

 

Still, you either take the rhino there and get shot for one turn, or walk and get shot for three turns. That's the obvious comparison to me.

[Jiron]

I have never liked mechanical lists and I am glad that edition is over. My rhinos are now gathering dust cause I only use Land Raider filled with berzerkers. It's an assault vehicle so... My other guys are footslogging and they pretty like it. You just need a distraction. And that's gonna be my warp talons. They, I belive, will buy some time for my chainsworord-wielding renegades to cross the battlefield.

[Feste]

I'm not certain that I'll be running too many Rhinos, but Havoc Launchers and combi-melta will likely proliferate. Mostly for thematic elements, but also because I like the idea of making them even a half threat which might draw off some fire.

 

Rhinos are too iconic not to have a couple in there.

[Plaguecaster]

I will always be fielding rhinos just for the fact they are cheap transports and always use them transport plague marines to drive right in front of the enemy taunting my enemy to destroy them which if he does my plague marines get revenge on whoever destroyed their ride either wiping them out or bogging them down for a couple of turns, works very well against exorcists, las preds or other tanks as my melta plague marines just melta the hell out of the tank once rhino is destroyed since plague marines usually never die when transport explodes plus it lets my defiler lob more shots at the enemy without getting shot at

[Urauloth]

I'll probably run a couple rhinos most of the time. There's so many things you can do with even an empty rhino; tank shock, mobile cover, LoS blocking, ramming, generally being an objectionable jerk. If your opponent wastes fire on a 35pt nuisance, then great. If not, he or she has to put up with it getting in the way and making units take morale tests now and then.

 

Sometimes I might transport troops in them, I guess? Never know.

[Jacinda]

I will always be fielding rhinos just for the fact they are cheap transports and always use them transport plague marines to drive right in front of the enemy taunting my enemy to destroy them which if he does my plague marines get revenge on whoever destroyed their ride either wiping them out or bogging them down for a couple of turns,

Check the FAQ's. Even if your opponent destroys the Rhino, you can not assault until after your next turn. They shoot your ride, you stand around a turn, they shoot your troops, then you can assault.

[Rik Riorik]

I don't play that much and when I do it is almost exclusively against an IG friend of mine. With him fielding a fully mechanised list centered around a couple each of Chimeras, Leman Russes and Vendettas I just don't see how I can fail to include transports for my guys. 35pts is silly little for added protection especially given the fact that even a lowly Chimera can put put out an obscene amount of fire.