Urauloth Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Make that a 40pt nuisance. For 5pts you can take a dirgecaster, stopping all enemeis within 6" from using overwatch. This will amplify the nuisance value of the rhino considerably. e; It isn't much good writing an addendum to my previous post when it spills over onto a new page, is it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3199196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I'm usually not a fan of Rhinos seeing as how the Loyalist Razorback is far superior in my opinion. But that won't stop me from taking advantage of them. My plan is to field Huron or Ahriman (or get lucky on the Warlord table) to infiltrate some elite squads in their rhinos behind enemy lines. In my experiences, it's much easier to hide a Rhino than hide a full 10-man squad :) I don''t think you can infiltrate/outflank them if they take the tank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3199285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Sure they can. The Infiltrate USR's description in the BGB specifically states that they can Infiltrate in their dedicated transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3199288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Huh, so I guess you could infiltrate Terminators in a Land Raider. Damn, kinda cheap. I personally have 2 rhinos and a predator (I was hoping for dreadclaws being dedicated transports *sigh*), and I really like the idea of a "hybrid" army. My idea is similar to another I read here. I'll have my vetted/CCW'd squads in the rhinos, with a foot slogging support element, along with some raptors and Lord as Entry Men behind the foot sloggers with Dongo the Daemon Prince backing up the other team (and providing the OH <_<: OH :lol:: OH :D: !) factor they seem to bring to the table after letting people read the new rules. I'll try out the dirge casters too-the fellas have been taking flamers in their squads after I set the trend with my Raptors (have yet to be wiped in a game!). Move the rhino up, move the footsloggers and Raptors/Lord up. Shoot with the foot sloggers, flat-out the Rhinos, run with the Raptors and lord, stacking behind the Rhinos (dangerous if they blow-but that's what 3+ armor is for). Rhino shield my Foot sloggers from incoming heavy weapons, Raptors/Lord are in a position to Counter-strike-setting up for the assault I'm moving for. Ideally, move my foot sloggers up, move my tank up into Dirge Caster range, disembark Vetted/CCW unit (or Shooty Chosen) and Fish-that is, Rhino of Fury the target, send in the Door-Kicking Raptors/Lord while the foot sloggers move up and act as a cover team for the assault taking place, ready to step in if Things Go Awry, or engage someone trying to help out the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3199325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Since cultist ain't gonna do damage anyway, why not make crapcheap units of 85 pts, going around hunting objectives in a borrowed rhino, while your CSM happily footslog in greater numbers. Or even with a havoc launcher if you feel to spend some points (which are given back after the first shot). Eat the cake and still have it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3199485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
darknightdrako Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I really enjoy rhinos only when they have havoc launchers. I'm still new the the game and since I started (played last month of 5th, then been playing here and there during 6th) my list building changed in having rhinos with lots of havoc launchers. The list I mostly use with the previous dex was 3 rhinos and a dakka pred all armed with HL. I'm still trying to find my playstyle but I do enjoy the performace of firing 3-4 HL on a single unit from a safe distance. My opponents usually tend to focus on taking out my oblits/defiler/pred/dread while my havocs slowly wittle down their scoring units. Although If I had a choice I would like to take a thundefire cannon :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3199530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsoevil Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Rhinos are too iconic not to have a couple in there. Optimization aside, this is the reason I'm keeping Rhinos (and making a couple more). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3200233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimerical Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 The only reason I can think of not to take Rhinos is first blood; any one can fairly easily be killed in the first turn. However, the advantages ABSOLUTELY outweigh that disadvantage. They're the same ones as before. Mobility, moving terrain / LoS blocking, protection from small arms fire. And, as far as I'm concerned, unless you are using one of the HQs which guarantee having Master of Deception or else two Slaanesh HQs on steeds, we sorely need the mobility because our core troops are just not that good at long-range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3200252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Yep, the new codex gives a lot of variety and options, and the humble Rhino is no different. My plan is to kit them out with Combi-Melta (Suddenly they are a threat to armour), Havoc Launchers (Now they can chew on scoring units), and Dirge Casters (All the more annoying - drawing fire). Yes, this will consume some extra points, but they become a threat that can't be ignored; and that's exactly what I want. Have 3-or-4 of those Rhinos, 2 Predators (With Lascannon sponsons and Havoc Launchers - very reasonable in points and very dangerous to hard and soft targets), and 2-to-3 large blobs of Cultists to swamp, distract, and screen/bubble-wrap. That's a lot of target saturation that you need to choose between. And there is still 1 Heavy Support and 3 Fast Attack and 3 Elite slots to fill out the army. The CSM squads in the Rhinos will be Extra CCW, Flamer, Meltagun and/or no-CCW 2x Plasmaguns. (Play the 'shell game' and let your opponent try to figure out which is which, if they go first) They are not meant to charge when they jump out of the Rhino, just dig in and shoot. Once they are out of the Rhino they choose if they will continue to shoot or charge in the right situation. The Rhinos can then screen, annoy, block, and lob Havoc missiles (Soft targets) and take Combi-Melta shots (Hard targets). Again forcing the other player to choose what to shoot first; Predators, CSMs, Rhinos, are all dangerous at this point, they can't afford to ignore any of them. My first list build around this idea came in at 1801 points, and I'm sure I can tweak it some to be more efficient. I think there's plenty of room for Rhinos in 6th edition. Just don't expect them to be super tough; they are meant to get a squad where it needs to be, and then be enough of a threat to force your opponent to choose between them, or another target. If they choose to ignore them, I'm ok with that. If they choose to shoot them, I'm ok with that too. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3200370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Some good advice, but just to be clear, you can't "play the shell game" and not inform the opponent who's in what transport, since that would be open to all kinds of abuse. Anyway, I'm liking the idea of Combi-meltas on a Rhino. Makes them much more dangerous than a Hunter-Killer missile would! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3200529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 May take a couple of rhinos with havoc launcher, combo weapon (not sure which) and possibly blasphemous gargoyles for my thousand sons, always used to take one with a havok launcher but wasn't sure it was worth it with hull points and the extra rubrics argument used to win out for me, now however, my rubeicae may ride once again. I also take a vindicator and two predators (auto cannon with las cannon sponsons) so target saturation will be good, throw in some terminators and watch all but guard players not have enough firepower to stop you B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3200551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Some good advice, but just to be clear, you can't "play the shell game" and not inform the opponent who's in what transport, since that would be open to all kinds of abuse. Anyway, I'm liking the idea of Combi-meltas on a Rhino. Makes them much more dangerous than a Hunter-Killer missile would! If you're going to play the 'shell game' you must do it with sportsmanship, and write down a note with specific information of exactly what squad is in exactly which Rhino, before the start of the game. When I do this, I tell my opponent what I'm doing, let them see me write down the information (in pen if they like, so it can't be changed) but they don't get to know exactly what is were. I don't see this being unfair and lets me keep the advantage of surprise. I'm all for divulging information and clarifying so that things can't be abused with the old switch'eroo, but I'm not going to do it to the level that the enemy general becomes even more psychic, knowing just what is inside each Rhino. We already get to virtually be 'all-seeing gods' when we play, but I'm not giving (or expect to get) X-ray vision along with the other advantages of floating over the battlefield. And yes, I was downright giddy when I found out we can finally take one of each of the vehicle upgrades. With a Combi-Melta plus Havoc Launcher combo you can get in close, take the Melta shot and then still have a reasonably good dakka with a Bolter shot, Combi-Bolter shot, and the S5 Twin-Linked blast that is the Havoc. If you're willing to 'splurge' the extra 5 points you can even give them Warpflame Gargoyles so they set soft targets on fire. That just makes me chuckle with how annoying they'll be to my enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3201013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm fairly sure (haven't the rule book to hand) that opponents have the right to see a list at any time, which means they don't need to guess which unit is in which transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3201023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 They get to see the list that clearly states that a squad has a Rhino, and the load-out of each. I can then write the notes after they have verified what my list is composed of, and I can write it on a separate piece of paper or the back of the list paper. (Again, with specifics that can't be changed for advantage) I am also glad to show this note at any time to verify what is happening on the battle field, and make sure I'm not pulling a fast one. A simple piece of paper or card can be used to block any notes about units that haven't been reveled yet. Edit: But you are right, I too need to re-read the rules and make sure this is reasonable and in the spirit of the game. (never had problems with in the past) I'm not looking for an unfair advantage, I just don't think I should be forced to let my opponent know every little detail about exactly what is where. They get to know the overall information about what is on the field, and who has what, just not exactly where they are so they can pick-and-choose the best targets with their X-ray vision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3201060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Page 121: Deployment - Deploying Transport Vehicles: "Units can be deployed in Transport vehicles if you wish - simply declare to your opponent which units are embarked where as part of your deployment" It's a shame that Rhinos are basically essential in this 'dex given the complete lack of good delivery options in this codex, given how 6th made Rhinos cardboard death traps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3201078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 They get to see the list that clearly states that a squad has a Rhino, and the load-out of each. I can then write the notes after they have verified what my list is composed of, and I can write it on a separate piece of paper or the back of the list paper. (Again, with specifics that can't be changed for advantage) I am also glad to show this note at any time to verify what is happening on the battle field, and make sure I'm not pulling a fast one. A simple piece of paper or card can be used to block any notes about units that haven't been reveled yet. Edit: But you are right, I too need to re-read the rules and make sure this is reasonable and in the spirit of the game. (never had problems with in the past) I'm not looking for an unfair advantage, I just don't think I should be forced to let my opponent know every little detail about exactly what is where. They get to know the overall information about what is on the field, and who has what, just not exactly where they are so they can pick-and-choose the best targets with their X-ray vision. I just stick the sergeant of the embarked unit on top of the Rhino they're in. I have no problem letting my opponent know exactly what is in each Rhino. That's the way I've played it all through 5th & now into 6th... Dallas Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3201376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yeah you do have to tell your opponent which unit is in which transport. Empty rhinos are way more useful now than they used to be, it's cheap as hell to take a dirge caster (going to have to model those on all my rhinos..) and LoS blocking is a much bigger deal with directional casualties. I can't see any reason why I wouldn't take a couple even if I hardly ever intended to embark the squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3201567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfgar 25 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So how many rhinos would you use on games of about 1500 - 2500 points? I am thinking about how good they are on helping the charge, if it would be good to use more than 2... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3202218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Sure Rhinos suck for CC unit transports, they also mildly suck for regular transporting. They are however excellent at blocking charges, good when used as mobile shields, or as decent cheap ChaosBacks (Havoc + pintle). Another thing, I don't quite get why everyone in 6th seem to be focused on melee, when shooting dominates so much - or maybe it is just in my local environment? My 2 Kraks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3202304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Doyok Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I use 2 Rhinos + 1 Raider in 1500 3 Rhinos +1 Raider in 1750 Seriously, they sucks bad as a transport for my WE. Only usefull to provide that extra 6 inches in the 1st turn. Move 6, disembark 6 into ruins (properly set during terrain deployment), run. Rhino Flat Out 6 to block LoS from enemy flankers. HavocML is plain awesome afterwards since people usually ignores them omce they unload their passengers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3202305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmCjkh Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 One idea I've been thinking about is using Rhinos to artificially manipulate line of sight. For example, if I have unit A shooting at unit B and I have two Rhinos I can use the Rhinos to block LoS and only allow unit A to see the champion, heavy weapon, or some other specific model. That way all the wounds have to be allocated to that model, because unit A can't see anything else. Do you guys think this is a legitimate technique? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3202423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 S'what I've been doing since 6th came out. Rhinos aren't just for transporting, just like tinsel isn't just for decorating. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262317-rhinos-and-new-chaos/page/3/#findComment-3202449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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