A very weird idea I just had to share about Sevatar

[Wade Garrett]

What's that you're whispering?

 

"Wade, there's no way First Captain Sevatar could have been all those things. It doesn't make sense."

 

Sense? Sense? You think First Captain Sevatar has to lower himself to the point of worrying about what makes 'sense' to you?

 

This is a man who rode a Wraith class fighter into battle, while playing the entire guitar part of Enter Sandman, wearing Terminator armor that he built himself! In a cave! With a BOX OF SCRAPS! And then when he got to the battle, he decided to take a nap so that Konrad Curze and the Atramentar could have a moment to shine without Sevatar doing everything for them--because Sevatar's not some egotistical jerk, he's a nice guy! So nice, in fact, that he's the five time, five time, FIVE TIME, FIVE TIME, FIVE TIME winner of the "Nicest Guy in the Great Crusade" award, beating out Roboute Guilliman and Vulkan. That's right, he had to compete in the Primarch division just to make it fair!

 

Believe in the Sevatar that believes in the you that believes in the me who believes in the you who believes in Sevatar, because remember, when you look back, and only see one set of foot prints...that's when Sevatar carried you.

 

 

[My gods, this is tremendous fun! I think I understand Matt Ward a little better now.]

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

...i kinda hate you right now.

 

WLK

[Wade Garrett]

...i kinda hate you right now.

WLK

 

Yep. Definitely crossed the Ward Threshhold.

Note to self: There is a point where more is not better, it's just tacky. Those last two posts of mine sailed past that point and never looked back.

Though I still maintain that Sevatar beating Vulkan and Roboute in the "Nicest Guy in the Great Crusade" contest was at least mildly amusing.

And I intend to quote that about the one set of footprints being when Sevatar carried you repeatedly.

(Admittedly, in that situation you're probably being carried to the skinning pits. But hey, small details for small minds and all that.)

[Phoebus]

We can mock the idea all day long, but at the end of the day the Sevatar I saw in "Prince of Crows" was a nuanced enough character that redemption by way of the Grey Knights was not beyond him. We're talking about a guy who didn't share in the explicitly sadistic tastes of the Night Lords - at least on in the sense that they engaged in the activities they did as much for enjoyment as a means to an end. Despite his cynical attitude, his sense of loyalty is powerful... but it doesn't stop him from confronting his Primarch with concerns that show him to be anything BUT a remorseless and uncaring killer. In fact, it's that very confrontation and the potential for him to realize just how twisted Horus and Lorgar's path is (as the corruption by Chaos increases) that make me think he would seriously consider Garro's offer to join the fledgling Grey Knights.

[Lagbenektelse]

A further point in favor of Sevatar finding his way into the grey knights. He had stained his gauntlets red at some point either before or during his rise to the first captaincy. So his gene father believed enough in his sense of honor, to either him or the traditions they held, that he would still properly carry out his duties despite having a sword above his neck. Personally I believe that since the red gauntlets were a gang tradition that means Sevatar has some code of honor somewhere that replaces the sense of duty/ morality that most people carry around...still a sociopath but hey we've all got our little problems. So possibly Sevatar is convinced that his duty lies in the kinds of activities the knights errant are engaged in(also keep in mind these are not yet the Grey Knights). And while sitting in his cell(or a little before...memory a bit hazy just now) he is telling his fellow inmates that the primarch is basically daffy. Not good for morale or unit cohesion( though it would appear that he does not expect that to really phase or effect them, he is after all Sevatar). So there is a rational code somewhere in that head its just not easily identafiable to someone who isnt crazy

[Arachnid99]

It was the other Night Lords telling him the Primarch was nuts for leading the entire first company into a suicidal assault on the Dark Angels flagship were they would inevitably be massively outnumbered and slaughtered and they were right.

[Wade Garrett]

Sevatar? Honorable, rescuer of fair maidens and distressed kittens, and all around nice guy? Fellas, I was JOKING when I dubbed him the "Five Time Winner of the Nicest Guy in the Great Crusade Award". You are making a knight in shining armor from a Space Marine, who, as an unaugmented boy, killed people and ATE THEM because the crows told him to.

 

At the rate this nonsense is going, someone is going to come on here and claim, in all seriousness that other 7 Grey Knight Grandmasters are Lucius, Ahriman, Khârn, Typhus, Abaddon, Fabius Bile, and Erebus.

[Arachnid99]

Completely agree Wade, Sevatar is awesome but he is hardly a figure of nobility, he's a deranged psychopath who happens to be very witty and good with a blade.

[Phoebus]

It strikes me as if you're propping up two unrealistic extremes to contrast against one another, neither of which ultimately capture Sevatar the character.

 

The fact of the matter is this. Sevatar is a dangerous sociopath who was raised in a world full of vice, corruption, and murderous lawlessness to the nth degree. He was raised into a Legion that was led by an individual whose sense of justice centered on the application of murder, torture, mutilation, and terrorism. His peers, at best, used these tactics as a means to an end. At worst, they did so out of pleasure.

 

Despite this upbringing, Sevatar somehow managed to take away a sense of right and wrong from his Primarch. This is clear from the confrontation he has with Curze. You can't possibly read that part of the story and deny that, despite his sociopathic/anti-social disorder, Sevatar nonetheless possesses a moral compass - regardless how twisted. Furthermore, he does possess a code of honor of sorts. This might strike you as silly, but it is no different than the dozens of different murderously criminal organizations throughout the world who have codified their own standards of behavior. He demonstrates this code when he engages in behavior that the truly monstrous Night Lords - those who revel in what Nostramo made them - would find laughably naive... such as staying behind to help stranded Companies evacuate.

 

The key thing here is the moral journey that Jago Sevatarion has made in his life. He never seems to have embraced what Nostramo made him. Despite his psychological condition, he was able to differentiate between basic right and wrong. This allowed him to develop a sense of loyalty to an individual who fought - however wrongly and gruesomely - for order. This loyalty was powerful enough for him to forswear his oaths to the Imperium. Nonetheless, he has since come to realize that Curze's way was wrong.

 

That's a pretty big chink in his armor. As of right now, he is still planning on making his way to Terra. It's clear, though, that he doesn't believe in Horus.

 

So that's what you have. A damaged man, a Space Marine with a dangerous moral compass and a twisted code of honor... but no cause. I don't know by what means Garro will turn him, but as of right now there is absolutely nothing keeping Sevatar to the side of the Traitors than - I think - a sense of cynical fatalism.

[Perrin]

Sevatar? Honorable, rescuer of fair maidens and distressed kittens, and all around nice guy? Fellas, I was JOKING when I dubbed him the "Five Time Winner of the Nicest Guy in the Great Crusade Award". You are making a knight in shining armor from a Space Marine, who, as an unaugmented boy, killed people and ATE THEM because the crows told him to.

 

At the rate this nonsense is going, someone is going to come on here and claim, in all seriousness that other 7 Grey Knight Grandmasters are Lucius, Ahriman, Khârn, Typhus, Abaddon, Fabius Bile, and Erebus.

 

Since when are the GK knights in shining armour? The GK follow the orders of the Inquisition, which is hardly the upholder of morality and goodness. Why would it matter if Sevatar was a nice guy, as long as he wanted to help with the GK set-up, thats all that's really needed. I'm sure Varren had taken part in his fair share of massacres, no one is questioning his role as a GK/Knights-Errant.

 

Although, he isn't loyal to the Emperor, which is really the first requirement to be a Knights-Errant. Even if he decides to abandon Kurze and switch sides later on I can't see Malcador or Garro accepting him, unless the Emperor himself vouches for him.

[Vesper]

Doesn't that also make Sevatar a giraffe?

 

Sevatar is now:

One of the first Grey Knight Grandmasters

Loken

A giraffe

Alpharius

The true author of the Lectio Divinitas

The missing Second Primarch

Cypher

The Nightbringer

The true author of the Book of Lorgar

The Ork Warboss that grabbed the Emperor by the throat on Ullanor

The missing Eleventh Primarch

Ollanus Pious

An Emperor class Titan

The true author of the Codex Astartes

Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, Loyal Servant to the true Emperor, Marcus Aurelius, husband to a murdered wife, father to a murdered son, and he will have his revenge...in this life, or the next.

 

I reserve the right to add to this list as new Heresy publications provide more information.

 

Well, that's pretty funny in fact.

I'd add that it's quite possible that Sevatar is the Wandering Jew, Garro, the Emperor AND Steve Jobs. I mean, his sense of loyalty and all, you know.

[Lagbenektelse]

If Sevatar could offer something to the knights errant then at that point in the Heresy while the Emperor is still active perhaps there would be a reason for intercession. The Haunter(following the idea that Curze was a name he did not 'recognize' as legitimate) most assuredly looked for individuals who followed his dark prophecy. So Sevatar likely swore himself to the Haunter as a native Nostraman. So the duality broke the oath Sevatar swore because Night Haunter wasnt really "there". Or possibly what if Sevatar's red gauntlets were a recognition of his prophesied betrayal. Sevatar is the the first captain because he will be the Imperial future of the Night Lords. The Plinth for Khyron carried a message for a devout follower who was named betrayer before the thought ever entered his mind. Essentially Sevatar never believed he was a betrayer but the primarch cast him as one. Wheels within wheels gentlemen.

[Wade Garrett]

There's just as much, if not more evidence, that Khârn is the real Grandmaster Khyron (for starters, their names begin with the same two letters.)

 

Latent Psyker? Khârn manages to calm Angron down and communicate with him when no one else in the War Hounds can in After De'shea. Also, he later manages to shrug off sorcerous attacks from a Thousand Sons officer in a heresy short story whose title escapes me at the moment. Latent psyker, gentlemen.

 

Betrayed his brothers? Khârn THE BETRAYER. It's right there in his name.

 

Who's that Khârn still running around killing people in the 41st millenium? Obviously, a daemonic embodiment of Kharne's bloodlust and rage, which was expelled from his body by his latent psyker powers during the Siege of Terra (when he "died' and was "reborn") and then possesed his World Eater armor, much like the Avatar of Khorne or the Slaughterman in Graham McNeil's books. Meanwhile, the now cleansed Khârn becomes the Grandmaster. And there you have it, I hope ADB won't be upset with me for ruining the big plot twist in Betrayer.

 

Honestly, you people think Sevatar is going to turn on Konrad Curze because Garro or Malcador makes a rousing speech? Sevatar, who had the Sin Eater unlock his psyker powers knowing that it was going to kill him, just so he could call the Night Haunter back to the land of the living? Sevatar, who rode a space fighter into the Dark Angels flagship just to die at his Primarch's side? To quote the First Captain himself, "Some people just don't understand what an 'oath of loyalty' means'."

[Sazabi24]

Omegon also makes a far better candidate than Sevatar.

[Augustus]

Phoebus, I initially scoffed at the idea, and while I still think it highly doubtful that Sevatar will join Garro's band of brothers, your insight into Sevatar is very thought-out. So well that if it does occur I feel I could almost buy it. Almost :lol:

[Phoebus]

There's just as much, if not more evidence, that Khârn is the real Grandmaster Khyron (for starters, their names begin with the same two letters.)

No there isn't it. The OP actually offered a comparison that relied on - admittedly - the loosest of connections:

1. Sevatar's unwitnessed death being, in fact, a lie.

2. Similar weaponry.

3. A quotation that reveals a demeanor similar to Sevatar's. The Night Lord was a traitor and a casual killer, but he didn't celebrate it.

 

What you're doing is offering up comparisons you know are neither here nor there for the sake of mockery. I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with the OP or myself, but if you're going to do so... just do so. See the last paragraph for more on this.

 

Honestly, you people think Sevatar is going to turn on Konrad Curze because Garro or Malcador makes a rousing speech?

No, I think that Sevatar is going to turn on the Night Haunter because he has already seen that his Primarch's philosophy and tactics are a sham - to the point that he was willing to confront him about it. I think Sevatar is going to turn on the Night Haunter because his sense of loyalty is struggling against what amounts to a cynical, fatalistic outlook. I think Sevatar is going to turn on the Night Haunter because at this point he hasn't even seen what Chaos is doing/will do to the Legions following Horus. When he does see what the Eightfold Path does to Khârn, the Emperor's Children, or even his fellow Night Lords... All those things together will turn Sevatar - not some "rousing speech". By the time Garro somehow gets around to meeting Sevatar, the First Captain's mind will have been made up already.

 

While we're on this, though, thanks for propping up a straw man (a "rousing speech") as opposed to, I don't know, the context provided by the stories being told. :)

 

You mention his take on oaths of loyalty? I'll do you one better:

 

'You are my primarch, father. Why wouldn't I risk myself to save you?

'Because I am your primarch,' ... 'And I lead a Legion of foul-hearted wretches with no sense of loyalty to me, or to each other.'

Sevatar shrugged ... 'And yet, I am so very popular among my brothers.'

That's the duality of Sevatar right there. A casual killer and a sociopath, he nonetheless acts with a sense of honor even though he understands that those around him don't.

 

Incidentally, you make a much better (and enjoyable) counterargument when you actually apply yourself to the topic. But by all means, heap the irony on. Because, you know, this series hasn't featured any unexpected reversals or otherwise surprising events in the past twenty or so novels and anthologies... :P

[Lagbenektelse]

I've just got to say Phoebus that I owe you a drink because you have done a remarkable job arguing the idea that was pretty flimsy earlier on.

[Wade Garrett]

Incidentally, you make a much better (and enjoyable) counterargument when you actually apply yourself to the topic. But by all means, heap the irony on. Because, you know, this series hasn't featured any unexpected reversals or otherwise surprising events in the past twenty or so novels and anthologies... :)

 

Thanks. Since you have paid me a compliment, I'll return the favor by actually being serious instead of continuing to shout about the Sevatar in the heart of each and every one of us.

(Yes, I am that shallow. But at least I admit it)

 

Apparently, I had a different take on the conversation between Sevatar and Curze than you. As I saw it, Sevatar believes that the conflict between the morality Curze clings too and his own nature as a monster that feeds on fear is what is breaking Konrad's mind, and his solution is that Konrad should give up on his pretensions to the moral high ground and revel in his true self

 

"The Legion is disorderly and vile because it is made in your image...."

"You enjoyed this...the same way we all did. You came to love it...the power...the righteousness.."

Etc.

 

Also, given that Sev had just culled half of the Old Kryoptera and threatened to do the same to the new if they didn't go along with his plans for the Legion, I imagine he said that bit about being popular with his brothers with a sardonic sneer and a great deal of sarcasm. Admittedly, this is also how I imagine everything else a Night Lord has ever said in the Black Library novels.

 

Jago Sevatarion has many good qualities....he's courageous, he's loyal to his brothers in black and his Primarch, he has a very pragmatic grasp on tactics and strategy, a pleasingly dry sense of humor...but all that comes wrapped up in a man who is considered insane and a monster even by his fellow Night Lords. There's a C.S. Lewis quote, the exact words of which escape me at the moment, but it's something like "The qualities that make a good man great are the same ones that will make a bad man terrible indeed." That's my opinion of Sevatar after reading Prince of Crows.

[b1soul]

There's just as much, if not more evidence, that Khârn is the real Grandmaster Khyron (for starters, their names begin with the same two letters.)

 

Latent Psyker? Khârn manages to calm Angron down and communicate with him when no one else in the War Hounds can in After De'shea. Also, he later manages to shrug off sorcerous attacks from a Thousand Sons officer in a heresy short story whose title escapes me at the moment. Latent psyker, gentlemen.

 

Betrayed his brothers? Khârn THE BETRAYER. It's right there in his name.

 

Who's that Khârn still running around killing people in the 41st millenium? Obviously, a daemonic embodiment of Kharne's bloodlust and rage, which was expelled from his body by his latent psyker powers during the Siege of Terra (when he "died' and was "reborn") and then possesed his World Eater armor, much like the Avatar of Khorne or the Slaughterman in Graham McNeil's books. Meanwhile, the now cleansed Khârn becomes the Grandmaster. And there you have it, I hope ADB won't be upset with me for ruining the big plot twist in Betrayer.

 

Honestly, you people think Sevatar is going to turn on Konrad Curze because Garro or Malcador makes a rousing speech? Sevatar, who had the Sin Eater unlock his psyker powers knowing that it was going to kill him, just so he could call the Night Haunter back to the land of the living? Sevatar, who rode a space fighter into the Dark Angels flagship just to die at his Primarch's side? To quote the First Captain himself, "Some people just don't understand what an 'oath of loyalty' means'."

You are the only sane person in this thread LOL

The rest seem to be out of control Sev/NL fans run amok

[Kol Saresk]

husband to a murdered wife, father to a murdered son, and he will have his revenge...in this life, or the next.

His real name is Maximus?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I knew it. -_-

 

Seriously, I don't think so because of the simple fact that he is a typical Night Lord with all of the inherent qualifications needed to hold that title, he was severely loyal to the Night Haunter and was willing to kill fellow Legion Captains who thought of just letting the Primarch die and he wasn't exactly the most Loyal to the Imperium. Sound theory, but sadly I don't think so. I think the ending of Prince of Crows is going to end up having something to do with the little tidbit in Void Hunter where everyone discussed whether or not he was actually dead.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Well then, I guess I'm buying Prince of Crows -_-

[Kol Saresk]

Why haven't you bought it already?!?!?!?!?! It's mandatory for any and all Followers of Chaos! And you call yourself a Dark Apostle..... -_-

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

It hasn't arrived at my local Barnes and Nobles yet? ;)

[Hyaenidae]

Dude, I live in friggin' Alaska, and we got it. Where the hell is your local Barnes and Noble, the bottom of the Mariana Trench? ;)

[Kol Saresk]

Ah. No, I know why. Barnes an Noble isn't putting it out on the shelves until October 18 IIRC from what I heard. I know because I saw it in passing going by a Books-A-Million and then stopped at Barnes and Nobles that I was going to hit later on the road and me and the manager went on a merry chase looking for it and that's what she told she found out. I had to go back to the Books-A-Million.