Kurgan the Lurker Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Ok so the Chaos Codex is going to hit within days and that has raised the issue of Cultists and how they will be handled on the B&C. First let me state that Cultist as they appear in the Codex will be allowed. Much in the way the old Lost and the Damned were allowed and later the various Inquisitorial human units currently are with the WH and GK codex books. The issue for us -- and the mods are still hammering away at each over this -- is how far do we go with it. You probably know from reading our earlier statement on Allies http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=255027 that one option being considered was focusing as an "armies of humanity" forum. This would basically mean any human related army being ok on the site. Marines, SoB, AdMech (used with IG/SM rules most likely), IG (and it's variations -- Tyrant's Legion, Vraks Renegades and so on). Yes we would keep Daemons as we feel they are integral to the Chaos story. So we would like to hear from you all on what you feel the Pros and Cons of such a decision may entail. Please try and be a bit more descriptive than "it would be cool" or "it would suck". We really do want your feedback on this issue to help us come to a decision that is best for the site in the long term. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Yes we would keep Daemons as we feel they are integral to the Chaos story. And Cultists aren't? I'm sorry but I just don't understand this? Dallas Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Frankly, the only modification to the current forum focus I would make it allowing the Tyrant's Legion since it comes from a Space Marine-centric publication, and all its best units are power armored. I feel that if you allow IG to make an appearance, you're opening a door to other armies and allies that don't fit with the core tenant of the boards -- that is, power armored infantry. Worst case scenario: the Tau can take "gue'la auxiliaries," who are humans, right? So I can post my tau armies on the board as long as they have gue'la units, right? The maturity level of these boards are much higher than elsewhere (thus why I dropped Warseer and stuck with you guys), but we're still part of the Digital Generation, which means we like to push the bounds of things. Give us an inch, and we'll find a foot of wiggle room. My vote is to keep is simple: if you're not wearing power armor, go elsewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 How are Chaos Cultists different to Fenrisian Wolves? Fenrisian Wolves are a unit in the Space Wolves codex and therefore relevant to the B&C. I fail to see how Chaos Cultists are different, or why they would need special treatment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I would vote to simply treat the cultists the same way we treat rhinos or scouts. They don't wear power armor, but they are part of our codex, which is based on the (chaos) space marine. I wouldn't make anything seperate or new for the cultists, just blanket them in the chaos forum and make it easy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I was a bit concerned with the potential change in format with the allies, but I feel that the comprimise of having only IG discussed as a secondary alliy kept things to a minimal change without opening up the boards to discussions of how many tanks we can field. I say keep the rules similar to what it is now. Discussing a list that contains Cultists would be fine, but not if Cultists are the core of the force. Not that I think anyone will be doing this. I stick with this forum for the honest opinions, and focus on the part of the game I enjoy, the Space Marine in all it's iterations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Frankly, the only modification to the current forum focus I would make it allowing the Tyrant's Legion since it comes from a Space Marine-centric publication, and all its best units are power armored. I feel that if you allow IG to make an appearance, you're opening a door to other armies and allies that don't fit with the core tenant of the boards -- that is, power armored infantry. Worst case scenario: the Tau can take "gue'la auxiliaries," who are humans, right? So I can post my tau armies on the board as long as they have gue'la units, right? The maturity level of these boards are much higher than elsewhere (thus why I dropped Warseer and stuck with you guys), but we're still part of the Digital Generation, which means we like to push the bounds of things. Give us an inch, and we'll find a foot of wiggle room. My vote is to keep is simple: if you're not wearing power armor, go elsewhere. I just sent Kurgan a PM of my opinion, which is that one should allow pictures and debate concerning Imperial Guard, due to their fluff correct nature as allies of both loyalist marines and traitor marines. I would argue that there is no traitor not loyalist force of any size, that would not include elements of the Guard, and I feel it is limiting not to be able to for instance (not that I post them, as I have no guard forces what so ever, but still) being able to post pictures of an extremly fluff correct Iron warriors Basilisk battery, nor being able to properly debate its use. Therefore I am leaning towards the "Armies of Humanity" approach, with one caveat; which is that power armoured forces should still be the Primary Detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Shadow Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I dont see the need to do anything about cultists, they may not be wearing power armour but they are part of the chaos marine codex and relevant to army tactics/list discussions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I would like to put my personal opinion down in favor of adding Imperial Guard to the B&C, and here is my reasoning. If we look at both, the Imperium and the forces of chaos, we include basically everything under the sun except for the teeming masses of guardsmen. Even then, we see inquisitorial henchmen and cultists who are the 'exception to this rule.' My thoughts on this is simply 'why'? With the dawn of 6th edition, we have seen a whole new layer of gaming and variety added to 40k, whether people like it or not. Armies like Vraks Renegades and Tyrant Legions were simply the first step, as we saw from Forge World and now it is an official option to combine the forces of the Imperial Guard with your raving Chaos Marines or your Ordo Malleus Inquisitor. I know many people who are dying to make armies that combine the two and post them for everyone to see and I myself had a cringing urge to make a Steel Legion/Black Templar army after reading Helsreach. It simply adds a whole new layer of things people can make. Now, as my colleague Ferrum brought up, the addition of Imperial Guard can possibly lead to some who will take this gift and abuse it for their own filthy xenos-loving need but, I have a solution to that. Instead of having the rule of thumb stated as 'power armour only' which is now a rather outdated philosophy with fenrisian wolves, scouts, and cultists. Instead, we evolve to a more rounded philosophy to Imperium of Man and Forces of Chaos Only That way, it gives everyone the freedom to create their Tyrant Legions, Vraks Rebels and everything in between the the rules allow but, it keeps the unclean xenos out of our forums. This is just my thoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilicate Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Don't have a problem with an IG subsection. They have bolters and chainswords too, afterall. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Imperium of Man and Forces of Chaos Only [...] it keeps the unclean xenos out of our forums. Wouldn't that take the forum from being themed to being arbitrary? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Explain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Imperium of Man and Forces of Chaos Only [...] it keeps the unclean xenos out of our forums. Wouldn't that take the forum from being themed to being arbitrary? Not so sure. lesser sites like Warseer and Dakka has a complete chaos, I agree there. But its also to do with their lousy layout, and many of its users being rather young. I do feel that this site would still be very much themed with the inclusion of Guard, and especially if there was a caveat that power armoured forces should be the primary detachment. It is as stated my opinion that there is no Chaos nor Adeptus astartes conflict being waged of any great size, without elements of the Guard or its traitor equalent. For me it is therefore quite difficult to understand that for instance posting a picture of an Iron warrior basilisk, would be illegal and against forum rules. Xenos allies are, of an entirely different category in regards to being "fluffy" so to speak. Mayhaps merc orcs could be fluffy, but as we should draw the line somewhere, I feel it should be drawn to include the "forces of Humanity" and then exclude all of those aliens :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan the Lurker Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Yes we would keep Daemons as we feel they are integral to the Chaos story. And Cultists aren't? I'm sorry but I just don't understand this? Dallas How are Chaos Cultists different to Fenrisian Wolves? Fenrisian Wolves are a unit in the Space Wolves codex and therefore relevant to the B&C. I fail to see how Chaos Cultists are different, or why they would need special treatment. You guys do not seem to be reading the post in its entirety. I will quote part of it once again: First let me state that Cultist as they appear in the Codex will be allowed. Much in the way the old Lost and the Damned were allowed and later the various Inquisitorial human units currently are with the WH and GK codex books. The questions isn't whether we add Cultist or not, the question is how far we take the "mortal" portion of armies on the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Explain. He means exclusive (i.e. to exclude, i.e. arbitrary, as in discriminating). But really Pingo, if I am right and thats what you meant, you could have used a better word in that sentance, haha :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan the Lurker Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Explain. He means exclusive (i.e. to exclude, i.e. arbitrary, as in discriminating). But really Pingo, if I am right and thats what you meant, you could have used a better word in that sentance, haha :P This board is already arbitrary in that we chose to discuss only Power Armor related topics. Going "humanity" wouldn't change that. We are never going to have Xenos on this board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Actually Iron Sage, while I appreciate the support, I think Pingo was saying my new theme idea would be very haphazard and subjective. Which, to be fair, he would be right in pointing out. While the Imperium is a bit more clean and to the point, the forces of chaos is a much more subjective term. There have been times in the fluff and stories where certain xenos have fallen to the will of chaos. Chaos Eldar is a rare, yet powerful example here, and even in the old Daemon Hunters codex, there was even an art picture of Orks dedicated to Nurgle. My answer to this would be, if you very specifically state that xenos are not allowed, in any way, shape, or form, and that we focus on the battle between the Imperium of Mankind and its Most Treacherous enemy (which is a far cooler sounding theme than 'power armour only'), I don't see why there would be any problem. Once again, just my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Actually Iron Sage, while I appreciate the support, I think Pingo was saying my new theme idea would be very haphazard and subjective. Which, to be fair, he would be right in pointing out. While the Imperium is a bit more clean and to the point, the forces of chaos is a much more subjective term. There have been times in the fluff and stories where certain xenos have fallen to the will of chaos. Chaos Eldar is a rare, yet powerful example here, and even in the old Daemon Hunters codex, there was even an art picture of Orks dedicated to Nurgle. My answer to this would be, if you very specifically state that xenos are not allowed, in any way, shape, or form, and that we focus on the battle between the Imperium of Mankind and its Most Treacherous enemy (which is a far cooler sounding theme than 'power armour only'), I don't see why there would be any problem. Once again, just my opinion. Your probably right in me misunderstanding there I guess. focus on the battle between the Imperium of Mankind and its Most Treacherous enemy Now this sounds cool! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I hate humans. Keep them out of here, please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Cyanide Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I think that with the inclusion of allies in 6th edition, allowing people to post pictures of their fluffy allies (guard) would be a great change to the board. As a chaos player, I would love to build a Chaos guard detachment to go with my Iron warriors, in fact, I currently have 2 basilisk's being painted right now. I believe that guard is a perfectly fluffy ally to all Chaos, Daemons, Inquisition and all flavours of Space Marines. I feel that opening up the theme of the board a little adds a few cool tanks, a couple of cool flyers and that's about it. We already have non power armoured troops in all armies discussed here, with henchmen, scouts, cultists and all daemons, so I don't think that adding guard would really change the feel of the board a great deal, but it would open it up in a positive way! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think allowing Guard into the forum would be an amazing idea. I love the B&C and I think it would synergize well with the forces already here, especially with allies. For us, it could mean either armies of cultists with looted vehicles or well trained traitor guardsmen. For the loyalist dogs, it can be as they are, as PDF, counts as Admech or even as space marine homeworld forces (Prospero Spireguard for example). I highly approve of this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I would vote to simply treat the cultists the same way we treat rhinos or scouts. They don't wear power armor, but they are part of our codex, which is based on the (chaos) space marine. I wouldn't make anything seperate or new for the cultists, just blanket them in the chaos forum and make it easy. This would be my vote too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 You guys aren't really getting what he's asking, it's not about cultists persay it's about whether to change the board from "power armored" to "the forces of humanity". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit446 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 In my opinion, NO we should not change the board. Cultists (and scouts/henchmen/whatever) might not be power armored, BUT they are all still components to a Power Armored Codex. So it would, personally, sounds incredibly stupid if we changed the entire forum to "Forces of humanity" to compensate for what...3-4 units?? Seems ridiculous, plus I don't want Guard players running around in here. Geneseed or get the :cuss out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 In my opinion, NO we should not change the board. Cultists (and scouts/henchmen/whatever) might not be power armored, BUT they are all still components to a Power Armored Codex. So it would, personally, sounds incredibly stupid if we changed the entire forum to "Forces of humanity" to compensate for what...3-4 units?? Seems ridiculous, plus I don't want Guard players running around in here. Geneseed or get the :cuss out. Its more about fluff correct allies than the new units, Ifrit :) By the way, this made me grin: plus I don't want Guard players running around in here. Geneseed or get the :cuss out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262349-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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