Kurgan the Lurker Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Ok so the Chaos Codex is going to hit within days and that has raised the issue of Cultists and how they will be handled on the B&C. First let me state that Cultist as they appear in the Codex will be allowed. Much in the way the old Lost and the Damned were allowed and later the various Inquisitorial human units currently are with the WH and GK codex books. The issue for us -- and the mods are still hammering away at each over this -- is how far do we go with it. You probably know from reading our earlier statement on Allies http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=255027 that one option being considered was focusing as an "armies of humanity" forum. This would basically mean any human related army being ok on the site. Marines, SoB, AdMech (used with IG/SM rules most likely), IG (and it's variations -- Tyrant's Legion, Vraks Renegades and so on). Yes we would keep Daemons as we feel they are integral to the Chaos story. So we would like to hear from you all on what you feel the Pros and Cons of such a decision may entail. Please try and be a bit more descriptive than "it would be cool" or "it would suck". We really do want your feedback on this issue to help us come to a decision that is best for the site in the long term. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The name "bolter and chainsword" makes it sound like a power armoured forum, but other than that, an armies of humanity forum would be ok Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 This expansion will probably lead to a proliferation of members on the site since all the IG players would now have a place here. I suppose that wouldn't be a bad thing, given that traffic is one of the signs of a healthy forum. I don't really see any cons associated with making a change to a focus on human based armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Since Cultists are included in the new Chaos Space Marine codex they are part of that army, a power armoured one. Do you exclude Tech Marine servitors, Inquisitotial henchment, fenrisian wolves because they don't actually wear power armour? They are still part of a "Power Armour" codex. It's different from having IG allies. Excluding them would be like saying: "We could just talk about a single part of a Codex that fulfill the power armour requirement. Beside if we want to discuss only what is actually in power armour we shouldn't discuss about terminators as well... :cuss I think excluding the cultists from the forums will reduce the tactical effectiveness of our discussions since they will play a very important role in the new Codex, a role that has been designed to have such relevance. Anyway let us know if we are allowed to talk about culstists in the same forum we discuss about CSM. I wrote my opinion, the rest is not up to me :P EDIT: Before someone misinterpretate my post I want to say that I was talking about discussing cultists in the same forum we discuss CSM. Just for the records. Second EDIT: It seems I went a little of topic. It appears we'll be still able to talk about cultists in the CSM forums and you were just asking suggestions on opening a new section for non power armoured armies... my bad... this the effect of too much multitasking ;) ... I'm doing too much things at once right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3195954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I feel that B&C's focus on only power armour is silly and its not even adhered to in any case (Daemons and AdMech are not MeQ by any definition, yet they are 100% kosher). If the site expanded to being a forum for all human and human-variant forces (I guess we'd still have to let in Daemons, as they're non-functional without CSM and CSM benefit a lot from their inclusion), IG could be brought into the fold and we'd get proper Allies discussion. Its quite frankly insane that the most competitive codex from 5th edition (tied with Wolves/Knights, largely the same story in 6th) is unable to be discussed. None of the Marine variants really get much out of allying with eachother (aside from style/personal taste stuff), but all of them benefit enormously from IG Allies and vice versa. I still think we should not include xenos discussion, in terms of Allies. The xenos armies function quite differently to Imperial/CSM forces, and it would risk turning this place into Warseer (due to fragmentation and tribalism springing out of very different player groups). I don't wanna see that happen. Imperial forces and even CSM are broadly similar (lots of identical weaponry, equipment, vehicles, backstory etc), so its not as much of a stretch. Xenos are just too different. Even if you don't allow IG players into the B&C, at the very least rescind the inane decision to shut down discussion of them as Allies. It's silly and unnecessary. I'd be happy with even something limited, like only Marine base+IG Ally contingent (the other way round is debatable, but I'd be in favour of IG+Marine Allies). tl;dr its up you, but I'd allow IG in. Henchmen and Cultists are in-faction non-MeQ forces that are perfectly legal, its a very small bridge to let in IG Ally discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3196091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Overall I have to agree with Reclusiarch Darius he said it better then I could Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3196726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Well said Darius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3196735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I also agree with the points Darius made Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3196881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan the Lurker Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 I feel that B&C's focus on only power armour is silly and its not even adhered to in any case (Daemons and AdMech are not MeQ by any definition, yet they are 100% kosher). If the site expanded to being a forum for all human and human-variant forces (I guess we'd still have to let in Daemons, as they're non-functional without CSM and CSM benefit a lot from their inclusion), IG could be brought into the fold and we'd get proper Allies discussion. Its quite frankly insane that the most competitive codex from 5th edition (tied with Wolves/Knights, largely the same story in 6th) is unable to be discussed. None of the Marine variants really get much out of allying with eachother (aside from style/personal taste stuff), but all of them benefit enormously from IG Allies and vice versa. I still think we should not include xenos discussion, in terms of Allies. The xenos armies function quite differently to Imperial/CSM forces, and it would risk turning this place into Warseer (due to fragmentation and tribalism springing out of very different player groups). I don't wanna see that happen. Imperial forces and even CSM are broadly similar (lots of identical weaponry, equipment, vehicles, backstory etc), so its not as much of a stretch. Xenos are just too different. Even if you don't allow IG players into the B&C, at the very least rescind the inane decision to shut down discussion of them as Allies. It's silly and unnecessary. I'd be happy with even something limited, like only Marine base+IG Ally contingent (the other way round is debatable, but I'd be in favour of IG+Marine Allies). tl;dr its up you, but I'd allow IG in. Henchmen and Cultists are in-faction non-MeQ forces that are perfectly legal, its a very small bridge to let in IG Ally discussion. I've never got the B&C is silly complaint. It isn't like we hide what the forum is about. It seems odd to me that after being around for 13 years (or in your case being here for 5 years) that people think it is a stupid gimmick. Further, we don't shut down discussion of IG (or other races) as allies, we simply force them to be brought up in a restricted space (The army list and tactica forums). If it was up to me we wouldn't have the AdMech forum (even with their rules coming in the HH FW books) and Daemons are here because they were at one point part of the Chaos Dex and we feel integral to the Chaos side of things. IG have never been part of the Space Marine Codex and are certainly not integral to the SM side of things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3197009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circus Nurgling Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I dunno, without AdMech would we even have power armor? Don't they manufacture the stuff? As far as IG goes, I really don't even care if they get their own subforum or not, but I would like to be able to discuss them with the people here without getting shut down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3197114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I've never got the B&C is silly complaint. It isn't like we hide what the forum is about. It seems odd to me that after being around for 13 years (or in your case being here for 5 years) that people think it is a stupid gimmick. No, I get it. I do. But if you're going to say 'we are a power armour forum', the implication is Marines and Marine variants only. AdMech and Daemons are tangentially related, to the exact same extent as IG are. I find it silly you include two forces who are A: not PA and B: tangential to Marine forces. I know it's not a gimmick, its a stated aim about what the forum is about. I'm just saying, if you allow AdMech and Daemons, IG is equally valid for inclusion. You might disagree, and I'm ok with that (its your forum, do what you want), but that's just my opinion. Further, we don't shut down discussion of IG (or other races) as allies, we simply force them to be brought up in a restricted space (The army list and tactica forums). True, but I find you get better discussion and interest in the specific army forums. The army list and tactics boards get drowned in an ocean of other more generic threads. If, for example, you bring up how IG and Knights interact on the Knight forum, I find you get better responses and more interest. Again, just my opinion. If it was up to me we wouldn't have the AdMech forum (even with their rules coming in the HH FW books) and Daemons are here because they were at one point part of the Chaos Dex and we feel integral to the Chaos side of things. IG have never been part of the Space Marine Codex and are certainly not integral to the SM side of things. Fair enough. I guess I'd extend your point about CSM and Daemons being integral to eachother, to all Imperial armies. That's what the Allies mechanic has changed about 40k. Its fundamentally re-written the rules about how you construct army lists. The meta-game has shifted a lot because of this. That's why I'm keen for IG to be more widely included in discussion. IG Allies (as I said, going the other way with Marine Allies might be a bridge too far) add so much to Marine armies of all stripes. 'Battle Brother' status on everyone except Knights (who have Henchmen, and thus care less) is why they're a game changer. Stuff like Rune Priests in IG blobs or IG tanks backing up Marine squads is something nobody has really had to think about (outside of Apocalypse). It's now a reality, just as all kinds of xenos hybrid armies are (which as I said, I feel are too much and should be kept out). My 2 cents. If you decide not to bring in IG more widely, I'll still enjoy being a part of B&C. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262355-need-your-feedback/#findComment-3202999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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