Wyrd-maker Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Greetings brothers! I've searched and googled about as much as I can bear but alas, I have not found exactly what I am looking for. I am trying to figure out equipment for my TW lord and I have found conflicting advice. I am trying to decide between giving him a wolf claw to utilize his initiative or giving him a thunder hammer so he doesn't get tarpitted or become ineffective against an enemy character in a challenge who happens to have a 2+ save. Either choice WILL be paired with a stormshield for the invul save. I also intend to throw him in with a 4 strong TWC unit which will also have a SS and a TH so he will have back up in the AP2 department not to mention rending attacks. But I guess my main question would be if I should be THAT concerned about challenges and 2+ save enemy characters/TEQ/or whatnot or should I preserve his high initiative? ANY insight will be helpful thank you. For Russ brothers! ~Wyrd Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I had the same problem deciding but I value initiative more on lords overall. My question is why so adamant about the storm shield? Hes in a unit with 2+ LOS and runic + belt gives 2+/4++ on T5 already plus bear saga if your really concerned. My favorite build is wc/pf, first round of combat he puts out either 7 s5 rerollable attacks (ap3) or 7 s10 unwieldy (ap2). Not many characters in the entire game can best that especially with EW, those that can arent as fast as a thunderlord. Anyway thats my vote, if your still for the SS though then its wolf claw all the way since 99% of opposing forces are troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3195795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Yeah, i always go for the higher I, but i give him a frostblade for the extra S, i know warhammermath tells its better to use a claw, but the lord has jet to fail me (this was in 5th however, did not play 6th) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3195834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 My favorite build is wc/pf, first round of combat he puts out either 7 s5 rerollable attacks (ap3) or 7 s10 unwieldy (ap2). Not many characters in the entire game can best that especially with EW, those that can arent as fast as a thunderlord. This. Why choose S10/AP2/I1 or S5/AP3/I5 when you can have both on the same model and choose at the time, plus getting the +1A? 2+/4++ EW is going to be almost as good as 2+/3++ most of the time and there is only 10pts difference between the two builds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3195968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I would try both with belt of russ and saga of the bear. INV is less, but attacks up and you have a choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Not to mention the drop in invuln save has less impact due to Look out sir! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrd-maker Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Honestly I was intent on the SS because of the amount of ap2 killyness that is in my local meta. I would LIKE to have that better invul but switching it to a BoR is a possibility. I have just had much better luck making 3++ saving rolls than I have 4++. This. Why choose S10/AP2/I1 or S5/AP3/I5 when you can have both on the same model and choose at the time, plus getting the +1A? 2+/4++ EW is going to be almost as good as 2+/3++ most of the time and there is only 10pts difference between the two builds. I keep getting 20 point difference when I do the math. Trying to find the extra points in my list to do the two different weapons is proving difficult. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Honestly I was intent on the SS because of the amount of ap2 killyness that is in my local meta. I would LIKE to have that better invul but switching it to a BoR is a possibility. I have just had much better luck making 3++ saving rolls than I have 4++. This. Why choose S10/AP2/I1 or S5/AP3/I5 when you can have both on the same model and choose at the time, plus getting the +1A? 2+/4++ EW is going to be almost as good as 2+/3++ most of the time and there is only 10pts difference between the two builds. I keep getting 20 point difference when I do the math. Trying to find the extra points in my list to do the two different weapons is proving difficult. All else being equal (Lord, TWM, RA, WTT, WTK, SotB) Thunderhammer/Stormshield (60pts) vs Wolf Claw/Power Fist/Belt of Russ (70pts) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Honestly I was intent on the SS because of the amount of ap2 killyness that is in my local meta. I would LIKE to have that better invul but switching it to a BoR is a possibility. I have just had much better luck making 3++ saving rolls than I have 4++. This. Why choose S10/AP2/I1 or S5/AP3/I5 when you can have both on the same model and choose at the time, plus getting the +1A? 2+/4++ EW is going to be almost as good as 2+/3++ most of the time and there is only 10pts difference between the two builds. I keep getting 20 point difference when I do the math. Trying to find the extra points in my list to do the two different weapons is proving difficult. I'd stick to personal experience and local trends. TBH, you should try all iterations and see what will work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrd-maker Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 All else being equal (Lord, TWM, RA, WTT, WTK, SotB) Thunderhammer/Stormshield (60pts) vs Wolf Claw/Power Fist/Belt of Russ (70pts) Ah I see what you did there, that was my bad. I was thinking in my head of my original loadout for him which was a WC so 20 pt difference there. I'd stick to personal experience and local trends. TBH, you should try all iterations and see what will work. This is my best move methinks...I haven't actually built him yet so I will just pin his arms and play around with him. I will try the PF/WC combo with the belt and see how he fares. I think having him in a TWC unit with a SS and TH already, not mention 2+ LoS, will keep him safe just as well. Thank you for the help brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Honestly I was intent on the SS because of the amount of ap2 killyness that is in my local meta. I would LIKE to have that better invul but switching it to a BoR is a possibility. I have just had much better luck making 3++ saving rolls than I have 4++. Your lord should almost never be subject to ap2 unless in a challenge where he is king anyway, although the new CSM lords might displace him now. Just place him closest to the shield toting TWC model for max utility in wound allocation..ap2 problem mitigated. Also very few ICs in the entire game willingly enter a challenge with a thunderlord so thats not really a concern, hell even lysander loses to a fully tooled SotB thunderlord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Greetings brothers! I've searched and googled about as much as I can bear but alas, I have not found exactly what I am looking for. I am trying to figure out equipment for my TW lord and I have found conflicting advice. I am trying to decide between giving him a wolf claw to utilize his initiative or giving him a thunder hammer so he doesn't get tarpitted or become ineffective against an enemy character in a challenge who happens to have a 2+ save. Either choice WILL be paired with a stormshield for the invul save. I also intend to throw him in with a 4 strong TWC unit which will also have a SS and a TH so he will have back up in the AP2 department not to mention rending attacks. But I guess my main question would be if I should be THAT concerned about challenges and 2+ save enemy characters/TEQ/or whatnot or should I preserve his high initiative? ANY insight will be helpful thank you. For Russ brothers! ~Wyrd It all depends on what you want him to excell at. If you want him to be a challange machine, the thunder hammer is your best choice since you will instakill anything t5 and under. Also, since you have WS6 and t5 you will have very strong survivability. You don't need the initiative as much for defense. Although, runic armor and either a ss or a belt of russ will definitely be a great investment of points should you choose to go that route. As far as the wolf claw goes, it is a great option for mass killing troops but as far as challenges go, expect to be locked in combat for many rounds, especially and character with a 2+save Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjgarces Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 So, RA, BoR, PF and WC, is great. And better in a pack close to the SS guy. :angry: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjgarces Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Double post :angry: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Maybe silly &/or pointless but what about a Frost Axe? Or is there a ruling that says Frost Blades are just +1 S power swords? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Maybe silly &/or pointless but what about a Frost Axe? Or is there a ruling that says Frost Blades are just +1 S power swords? frost swords, blades are +1S, AP3 frost axes are +2S, AP2 and Unweildly. kinda sucks but im sticking with them for now. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3196959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrd-maker Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 If one was to take an unweildly weapon the power fist is the exact same cost and gives you a better strength bonus. Also a single wolf claw I find to be more effective with re-roll options than a frost sword with +1 str. The ONLY benefit I see to the frost sword is being able to pair it with a pistol or other ccw to gain the extra attack. But then you miss out on many other things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3197039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbringer Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I use a claw and SS then have my thundercav squad with the thunderhammer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3197426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 If you have them available take Fenrisian Wolves too. You can use them to LoS! any shots that would ID the SS TWC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3197479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostclaw222 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Most attacks would be frostblade + boltpistol. This would also save you points. Toss in a Belt of Russ, and you recoup the invulnerable save. He's still a beast; he's just a beast on a budget. I prefer the extra point of strength over the reroll of the Wolf Claw. The WS and effective S are already high, so you'll be playing with loaded dice already. Plus, the bonus attack that you'd lose by using the Wolf Claw is basically a reroll in and of itself. Let's not forget that you'll also have the rest of the pack right there with him, barring the event of a challenge, which in most cases, the lord's in good shape to win already. I'm all for the fenrisian wargear wolves, just as long as you prioritize their demise. If they outlast most of the Thunderwolf Cavalry, you could end up being on the wrong side of most-popular-armor saves. But since they need to maintain two inch coherency with the lord, that shouldn't be a problem, and they should be the first two Look Out, Sirs. I don't like the unwieldy weapons on a guy with that high an initiative. Just seems like you're throwing away something you just paid for to buy something else. Plus, I think it's better to strike first when you can. Now, against high initiative forces, that's a different story. Then, the hammer just makes sense as an initiative equalizer, assuming you're up against something that can survive a single blow from the thing and still be there in the next turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3198758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjgarces Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 And maybe frost sword and a power axe, 25+15 both +1 S for high or equal-less I and keeping it cheap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3198914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I would point out that if a ton of people in your local group are taking ICs with AP 2 weapons, they will probably go last. So if you can dish out the hurt first, there is a good chance to hurt them, not kill, but hurt. That being said, if you feel like swinging at the same time, you can get AP2 can more then likely take care of their AS. I feel that giving AP to CC weapons is kind of odd. Or at least how they did it. Things that give good strength bonuses and good AP go at Int 1. Every thing else "power" gets AP3...... So an AS of 2+ doesn't care about these..... It is honestly the one thing I never really liked about 40k and why I preferred WHFB and that system of ASs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3199307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 The notable new exception this are khorne lords with axes of blind fury and abaddon. They will strike at in with ap2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3200101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushlicker Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Hey, I would like to ask pretty much simillar question as my wolf brother precursor, launching this topic - what would be better: frost sword & storm shield, meltabomb or thunderhammer & storm shield ? plan is to be accompanied by host of fenrisian wolves and play as hardhitter to destroy SM squads & tanks seckond question is same but about saga : warrior born or bear ? i mean, he has T5 in this edition, so only s10 instant him - not much of those on tables , especially when fighting other SM/CSM, and saga of warrior born would make him pretty badass ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3200163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hey, I would like to ask pretty much simillar question as my wolf brother precursor, launching this topic - what would be better: frost sword & storm shield, meltabomb or thunderhammer & storm shield ? plan is to be accompanied by host of fenrisian wolves and play as hardhitter to destroy SM squads & tanks seckond question is same but about saga : warrior born or bear ? i mean, he has T5 in this edition, so only s10 instant him - not much of those on tables , especially when fighting other SM/CSM, and saga of warrior born would make him pretty badass :unsure: Personally, almost every time I lose my lord it's to instant death. I almost never lose him to small arms fire and that was before LoS! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262379-tw-lord-th-vs-wc/#findComment-3200446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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